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ladies and gentlemen, I'm very proud to have as my guest at this time Senator Stuart Symington of Missouri, who is the only member of the United States Senate who serves on the Armed Services Committee of the Senate and the Foreign Relations Committee of the Senate. I know him to be an expert in the field of disarmament and nuclear control, and for that reason I wanted to bring him down and ask him a few questions, or that we might enjoy the benefit of his answers.

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Senators, I'm in 1st May I ask you, what do you think will be the result of the meeting, which we're now having with the Soviet Union in Moscow, seeking to bring about some limitation of nuclear testing? Well, first sentence matters. It's a privilege to be with you as it always isn't an honor.

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All Americans, I'm sure pray for a successful conclusion to the Moscow talks. This question of a nuclear test ban is paramount in the minds. The American people. I think people should realize that there's sort of four schools that have developed the first school are the ones that would rather be red than dead.

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The second school are the ones who say that any arms race is worse continuation of it than the the A test ban that allowed cheating. And then there's a group who want to see a test ban but are determined to have one where cheating will be discovered.

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And finally, there's the group that are against any test ban treaty of any kind. I'm a member of the third group. I think we should have a treaty, and I'm sure that that the president will give us one that will prevent the Russians cheating to the point where they obtain supremacy over us in the military fashion.

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I was a member of the Armed Services Committee. You've had some testimony from the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I don't know whether it's confidential information, but if it isn't and I gather that it isn't they have opposed most any kind of a treaty. And what are their fears?

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And what are their reasons for this opposition? The Armed Services Committee had testimony from the Joint Chiefs that showed they were very apprehensive about a treaty. Since that time, the preparedness subcommittee, and is now has been operating since, uh, actually before September the opposition to the treaty is we know the Russians, as a result of their tests in 61 62 are trying very hard to get an anti ballistic ballistic missile.

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That would be a weapon which, in effect, if really attained and perfected, would in effect destroy much if not most, of our deterrence. It would prevent Polaris missiles, and it would prevent the Minuteman missiles or two latest missiles of the new the new group from effectively working.

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And we know they're working on that as a result of their tests. And therefore we want to be sure that we can detect They're continuing to do that. Yeah. We signed an agreement that the terms of the agreement will guarantee that we can tell if they are cheating on you.

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You've had a lot of experience in this field, the former secretary of the Air Force and other experiences. Do you believe that we can, uh, work out some kind of a test program which will show us whether or not the other side is cheating? Yes, I I do believe we could, and I think we've had a great assistance from extraordinary source in that As a result of the pressure that the Chinese Communists are putting on Mr Khrushchev, I think he is more willing now than ever before to make a realistic agreement with President Kennedy and the American people.

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It is true that if you make a test agreement between ourselves in Russia, you do not control the Chinese Communists. But it seems to me that the most important development in recent weeks has been the increasing friction between Russia and the Chinese Communist, which can only serve to our advantage not only in this field, but in all other fields.

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Now, one last question. Do you? How essential do you think it is for the health of the people of the United States and for the civilization, for that matter, for us to enter into a test ban agreement with the Soviet Union first, I don't think that the amount of testing that has been done today to date is seriously interfered with anybody's help.

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It's less than you would get on a vacation in the high Rockies. It's less that you would get an extended X ray examination. On the other hand, if we had a nuclear war resulting from the fact we didn't have an agreement then I believe it would seriously affect the health could seriously affect the health of the human race.

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Thank you very much, Senator Symington, for giving us your views on this very important subject. Thank you very much, Ladies and gentlemen, for looking in. I hope you'll look in again at this same time next week. Senator Symington, I wonder if you'd explain to us the areas of where we might be able to enter into an agreement with the Soviet Union with respect to test it.

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Well, the three areas senators matters would be first the atmosphere where most of the testing has been done. And secondly, space testing a million miles over, for example, and third under the water and fourth Underground fouled. Do you think that there's any possibility of are getting an acceptance from the Soviet Union in all of these areas?

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Or are we looking for that or are we looking primarily for only secession of testing in the atmosphere? That's a very good question. I think we would look for a secession everywhere, but it's apparently extremely difficult to get it underground. Get an agreement on underground testing, primarily because the Soviets consider any on site inspection to be in a an effective form of a spinach, and therefore they don't want that.

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And you cannot ascertain whether or whether or not a test was made because of the earthquake situation, unless you have on site inspection with respect to underground test agreement. On the other hand, um, we are pretty confident of our ability to detect in the atmosphere and underwater and reasonably confident in space.

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And therefore, I believe there's a better chance of getting an agreement that has to do with the atmosphere and with space and under the water than there is of getting one with respect to underground test. Now, the administration has apparently advanced a plan which appears to be satisfactory to them if the Soviet Union agreed to it.

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How does that? How does this administration's proposal to eliminate testing of nuclear weapons differ from that which Eisenhower advanced well, President Eisenhower, ineffective, entered into a voluntary moratorium in the summer of 1958 and the Soviet Communists broke that 34 months later by announcing and coming through with a major testing in the atmosphere program in 1961 starting in September, which they continued in 1962.

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I think the most unfortunate aspect of that that development was the fact that we did not hold ourselves in readiness to test in case they broke are the agreement which, of course they did. As I understand it now, we are holding ourselves to the best of our ability in a position to test in case they break, uh, any future agreement or the in effect current moratorium.

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I think that we would now be willing to sign an agreement that had to do with those first three mediums hoping that we could get an agreement there and perhaps, uh, let the underground testing, uh, go in advance for the time being. That has certain serious elements in it, however, because you can do a great deal of effective research and development by testing underground.

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And I think it's fair to say, although it's seldom discussed, that we are ahead in the fields that can be most easily handled by underground testing and behind in the fields that perhaps if any fields require atmosphere testing the fields that we are behind and do how many other nations of the world are now close to getting for themselves this capability of exploding a nuclear bomb France, communist China and, to a lesser extent, Israel and India for the four.

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Now, will it do us any good? If we enter into an agreement that would have an agreement between the United States of America and the Soviet Union, where we agree not to test these areas and then have these other nations or go forward with their testing?

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Where do words that leave us? Well, that, of course, is a very important point, and other nations do not want to be controlled. But we have this hotline development with respect to the Soviets. Nobody wants to be blown up. And I would think that if the two powers that not only have nuclear weapons but also have the capacity to throw them with the most modern missiles reach an agreement of this kind that the leverage that they could put on all other countries to join that agreement would be very heavy indeed.

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Do you think that Mr Khrushchev of the Soviet Union fears the development of the proliferation of this capability of developing nuclear weapons as much as we do? Yes, I do. He's an able man and he's smart. And I think that in his heart he fears it just just like we do.

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Then could you say that? You think that there is some prospects of our entering into some agreement at this meeting in Moscow with the Soviet Union? I believe that there's an excellent possibility, and I would hope that it would be an agreement that would be ratified by the Senate.

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As you know, the president has promised that any agreement will come to the Senate in the form of a treaty. I would hope also, however, that we realize that Mr Khrushchev at times does not apparently speak for all the power. An authority in Russia. Thank you very much.

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Senator Stuart Symington, for these observations. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for listening in. I hope you're listening again at this same time next week.