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48 senators smaller in this report to the people of Florida, from the nation's capital by your Senator, George Smathers. We have a distinguished guest with us. He is Dr D. Brainard Homes, the deputy associate administrator of NASA. Now here is Senator Smathers. Doctor, tell us, what is this instrument that we have here between us?

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Well, Senator Smathers, this is the Saturn five, or or the moon rocket. It's by far the largest rocket that we've developed in this country or are developing. His first flight won't be for several years, but when it flies, it will deliver the Earth orbit some £240,000.

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This compares with £3000 for mercury. When will this rocket B shot? Do you think, or actually with somebody in it? Well, our first man flights scheduled for early 67. As you know, we hope to get to the moon within this decade. Would it be shot from Kid Canaveral?

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It will. It will be a B shot from the Merritt Island area, where this very giant complex, as you well know, is now growing. Doctor, what I'd like to ask you is what about this whole program. Do you think that there is really a necessity for the United States spending this enormous amount of money to do these things?

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Are we getting really some benefit from it, that it makes it worthwhile? Well, I think so, son. Her smile is, of course, they asked that question before. It's a It's a question that I think needs answering. It's one that I feel is a tremendous benefit. The United States first and primarily I don't see how we as the people can be challenged and we are being challenged, I believe, to go into space man, going into space and leaving Earth and not be preeminent in that and still expect to lead people on earth, so I feel personally must do it.

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But further, all these dollars were spending, as you well know or spent on earth or a stimulus not only to our economy, but there is so much to our scientific thinking, to our education, to our technology. As you can see, I'm somewhat sold on why we should go.

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I hear it said that actually this program is not only costing a great deal of money, but it's draining off a lot of brain powers such as yours and others who might be. It worked. It's something actually more tangible and beneficial results to the nation. What do you have to say about that?

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Well, it's not my experience that that's the case. I've had some 20 years experience working as a contractor in defense programs, and now, in dealing with these same companies, we find the teats of teams of people available and ready to work on this kind of a program.

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And I think, if anything, we're contributing to keeping these teams together to keeping technology growing so they'll be available if necessary for other defense projects in the future or for other scientific projects. What great damage would it be to us if any? If the Soviet Union happened to put a man on the moon before we did, I think it would be disappointing.

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I don't think it'd be great damage as long as we were also growing in the capability to do it. If they did and we did, nothing in space grew our capability, not at all. I personally think that in a generation or so, we would no longer be first on Earth.

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Are there advantages, additional advantages that grow out of this program. Technical advantages, which you envision which will make this actually more pertinent to the average man on the street. Oh, yes. In fact, we're seeing now spin off or byproducts of the program that are actually applied.

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How about can you name some? Well, I can name one. That's sort of interesting, I think. As you know, we use various devices from monitoring the physical condition of an astronaut. Now we tell a meter that to earth, and we can do this all around the world.

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Well, they're already applying some of this in hospitals using these new sensors, and so they can then have it go to a board with a patient in critical condition can be monitored continuously as an example. Can you give us any others? You know, we're spending what, this year?

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Roughly five billions of dollars on this program. And apparently you and Dr Webb Jim Webb, the director, have ideas of spending even more. Well, I think the average citizen would like to feel like there's some more tangible benefit to him Now. Tell us about some of them.

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Decide that. Yeah. I think there are tremendously tangible benefits other than just the spirit of the economy, which I think this gives them is very, is very tangible. And these are such things as these various medical devices of which there are many. There's further experimental work and higher energy fuels, which will apply to are used right here on Earth.

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Other new metals, new kinds of metals that will stand all sorts of temperature changes and strains can actually improve and help our economy and our technological growth. It's worth it. Yes, sir. I very much believe that. Thank you very much, Doctor. Appreciate so much your being on the program.

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Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for looking in. I hope you're looking again at this same time next week I raised as part of his life Pervert up there. Okay, Believe it very much. I believe it's terrible that what he said. That's what he said.

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All right. Is that all you want me? Yes, I believe it. Very much so. That's what the last thing if you said on the last program, when the light goes on, you'll say that. Yes, sir. I believe it very much. I'll try. Try to help. I'll forget my lines.

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Actually, we're taking putting in something else. Oh, gosh. Thanks. Right. I brought. Yes, sir. I believe it very much. Well, Dr Holmes, can you tell us specifically what were the benefits that we derive from Gordon Cooper's very sensationally successful flight? Well, yes. I can tell you some of those benefits, Senator.

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Smile is I think the primary one is another step towards being able to operate in space, learning how a man reacts physiologically and mentally to a flight of that duration. I think from the standpoint of how one applies to immediate application here in our homes on our earth, one interesting application is the use of these sensors which monitor the astronauts blood pressure, his temperature, his general physical condition.

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And yet, no matter where he was around the world, we could know that right in Cape Canaveral. And we're now applying this in hospitals for monitoring patients conditions. Do you expect to have another mercury flight such as Cooper's flight? Well, we're studying that right now. We've indicated that from the start that we'd only have another flight if we felt it would warrant the effort and the expense of that flight as far as giving us additional data.

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And I would think within this next week or two that we should reach a decision is whether whether it really will be worthwhile to do that or to continue on with Germany Now, we'll tell us. Then. If you decide not to go forward with another, Mercury will be Germany.

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Now what? What is Germany? Well, they're playing that to it. Yes, I'll be glad to the three man programs. The Mercury. We all know Germany is a two man capsule capable of duration in space of at least two weeks and also capable of joining up with another rocket in space, which might then give it much more control.

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And the third programs, Apollo, which is three men and a still larger capsule and capable of going to the moon Now. This had to have the Russians thus far sent to two men, or they have they had an equivalent to orbit, such as our Germany. No, they haven't had two men as far as we know in any single spacecraft.

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They did have two men in separate spacecraft, as you recall simultaneously in orbit. But this spacecraft Gemini is two men in the spacecraft and also capable of up to two weeks. And I believe the longest duration Russian flight to date has been four days now. Well, the first shot of these two men.

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How long will that last? How long will they be in orbit? Probably only a few orbits. We'll have our first unmanned shadow Germany this late year, probably in December. And then we'll have another unmanned test shot mid next year. And then toward the end of next year, we'll have two men.

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But that first flight will be a checkout flight and probably only a few orbits. And then the next flight will be of longer duration. Well, you go back through these astronauts again. Would it be shepherd this time and Colonel grander? Who do you imagine it will be?

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Well, we haven't really crossed that bridge, but I think it's fairly logical to think that a combination of one of the astronauts who has flown in space with one of the new ones would make a pretty good team. How long after you have put these two men in space do you expect to get the three men in space well.

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That project, Apollo's first man launch, will be in 1965 and so it will overlap. The Germany, where Germany will be doing operations in Earth orbit, will be also doing a Paul operators in Earth or preparatory to leaving for the moon. How many of these Germany's will you run well before you move into your final stage of hitting the moon and putting men on the moon?

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Our present program calls for 12 Germany spacecraft and 15 boosters, and we expect to reuse the spacecraft. So, and the reason I'm answering it this way is that should that number should give us enough information to carry on with our appalled development, I personally believe that Germany will be a very useful vehicle for Earth orbit operations that probably more of those will be purchased and flown by Oscar by the Air Force later on.

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Do we have? Do you have information that the Soviet Union is going forward as rapidly as it can in this type of a program, to we have very little information. At least let me speak for my own office. We have very little information as to what they're doing, and developing a larger rocket.

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They must demonstrate a larger rocket before I believe before they can go to the moon. Because this Saturn five that we were talking about earlier is much more powerful than their present racket. On the other hand, as we mentioned, we don't launch our Saturn five until 1966.

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And so they still have time to demonstrate this. Well, actually, they started off with the greater thrust power than we and has apparently demonstrated that they have a capability of larger capability. And we to to send these large, uh, mechanism in orbit, do they not? Yes, they do.

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And I think the good way to compare it is how many pounds one can send to Earth orbit are mercury £3000. The Russians have demonstrated repeatedly £15,000. Our moon rockets, £240,000. Well, thank you very much, Doctor. I see that our time is up. I greatly appreciate your being with us today and passing on these views.

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And we hope to have you back again soon. Thank you very much, Ladies and gentlemen, for listening in. I hope you're listening again at this same time next week.