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Good morning. My name is Brandy Mahia. I'm here with Mr Mike. Coffee? Um, it is July 2nd, 2000 and 15. We're here with the Samuel Proctor, the Samuel Procter Oral History program at the University of Florida. Mr. Mike, can you please start off with spelling your last name for us, please?

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Last name is C O F F E. Y. Okay. And you said that you are actually of fifth generation Panamanian. Can you tell us a little bit? About just like your early life? Do you remember where you were born? What year was that? I was born in 1960.

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I was born in Coca Cola Hospital on the Atlantic side. When we consider the Atlantic side of the Canal Zone. I lived in GATT Tune and Margarita until I was seven years of age. At which point my father relocated to the Pacific side and we moved to the town known as cortisol.

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That was when I was seven. Took it the second grade there, and it was pretty much stayed there until I graduated from high school. What was the reason for the move? My father worked for the electrical division and power dispatching. So he managed hydro electricity for the for the canal zone as well as electricity for the city of Panama, which, of course, is very big.

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So we provided them with Elektra source for electricity. So he managed, uh, Madden Dam, which is a damn above the canal that allows ah, water reservoir when the canal needs water and they would open up the gates for electricity for the canal zone in Panama. So he controlled that.

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And how much? How much how high the lake level was. How much water to tolerate that sort of thing. That's cool. Do you ever remember working with your dad? Like, how much were you able toe physically? See it? Uh, yeah, I used to go to his office.

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You know, when he was on the Atlantic side, he worked at a place called the Spillway, and the spillways were The canal empties into the Tigris River that goes out into the Atlantic Ocean. And that also was about hydro electricity. So he's an electrician's by background and eso I would go in there and see the big turbans and everything that they had going to to manage the electricity didn't spend a lot of time in there.

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But when he came to the Pacific side, he worked at the Balboa substation, which was a huge panel of electron ICS. And it gave him all the meters in terms of the lake readings and the electrical power that was being consumed by the canal and by the city.

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And so I got a chance to see that. But it wasn't an area that as a kid I could go around and play around because it was a lot of, uh, technical equipment and so forth. I can't imagine what what kind of things did you that tell you about his field of work?

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Uh, that he answered the phone every two minutes, and then he had to have the answer to the question because he was, you know, when you're running electrical in a lot of different, um, a lot of people are managing different things as it has to do with the water levels and the electrical eso.

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He would communicate with a different substations in terms of what Gates needed to be open to create enough power. Um, you know what people needed to do in terms of, like, level or anything along those lines. How dangerous was this degree of work? It wasn't dangerous.

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I think a lot of times it was born because he was one person that was sitting in the substation and that he was managing a lot of technical data and technical things that haven't answered questions. So I think that at least from what he told me, it could be somewhat boring because he was there by himself.

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But he was somebody who could always find a way to keep himself entertained by reading or or whatever he taught himself to navigate. So he didn't have a passion for navigation and navigated votes like from Miami to Panama on things like that. That's interesting. So he was a waterman?

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Yes, the family was very much in water, Man. His father on his grandfather all emigrated from Ireland. So they came over from Ireland via New Jersey to work on the canal. So his great grandfather, his grandfather and his father all came to work on the canal in earlier generations.

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Wow. Do you have any idea that migration from Ireland to Panama Do you have any idea how that started or where they learned about that? Well, you know, things in Ireland were very difficult. They had potato famine. There was not really jobs and employment. You know, there was a It was a different world back in the early 19 hundreds.

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So, uh, my great grandfather packed up his family of seven kids and a daughter, and they went to New Jersey. They emigrated as U S citizens. And when the opportunities weren't really there in terms of employment, they had opportunity with the canal. So they came to Panama and they started working in various functions, whether it be the railroad.

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My grandfather ran the printing plant, eso creating the articles like the spillways, one of the magazines and the articles that they put together. So he ran. He started as what they called a boy. He was a boy working for the printing plant, basically the front line in the nobody per se.

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And he wound up. By the time he retired, he was the general manager of the plant. So he was He was running all the printing facilities for for the Panama Canal. That's amazing. So, you know, um and you said that you were fifth generation. Can you talk to us a little bit about just kind of like the community that you grew up in.

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Was it like a military community? Did you have the opportunity to live with the locals Know I didn't live on a military base. Of course, there were many military basis in Panama. Every branch of the armed forces was represented. So, you know, we were considered civilians, and probably the most common in the US is, you know, civil civil service.

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But we weren't considered civil service. So, um, you had a strong civilian community which stayed around for generations, and then you had a lot of military as well. That would come in and do their three year term of service and then move on to another base or whatever.

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But growing up in Panamao, it was a very It was a great way to grow up, but it was very much a sense of community. Everybody knew each other's kids and families because they've grown up for generations. Uh, my mom and dad grew up together. They went to high school together.

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They graduated high school. Um, uh, you know, in all their siblings and a lot of the families that live down there. So, you know, there wasn't anywhere way couldn't go that we were not. Didn't feel safe. Panama, You know, the people of Panama or beautiful people We you know.

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So it was kind of great that we could be in, almost like a military base growing up. And then we assume as we crossed the border, we would go in tow. Panama, which had a completely different culture and a beautiful culture. Eso the carnival carnival, you know, independence.

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You know, they celebrate different holidays that we dio but very colorful, beautiful people. And then we had the Indians throughout the throughout the regions that Daddy and, uh, the West Indians were very prominent there. But Panama had its own group of Indians. Yeah, the indigenous Indians, You know, the daddy end who are more to the towards the Colombian border.

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And then you have the wannabe Indians and just a variety of different groups that again made Panama so beautiful. So we get to experience that culture as well. That's great. Um, it seems that your family has also they have had a lot of influence in Panama.

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Are there any other stories from you shared about your great great grandfather right on my father's side. Of course, my my father's father was Irish, and his family emigrated from Ireland. Uh, but my father's mother was Panamanian and her family. She was the granddaughter of Porto Video.

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Melinda's input video is considered one of the founders of Panama, a time he was the governor of Colon City on when you know everything that was happening regarding the Independence of Panama, Puerto Video played a significant role in convincing the Colombians to, uh, to not take up arms against the Panamanians and to go back to back to Colombia on that kind of signal, the Revolution for Panama.

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So both video. His son Daddio, who's my grandmother's father, were very instrumental in the governance of Panama when it first became a republic. So So my grandma, my grandma. I'm sure there was a lot of discord when my grandmother, who was Panamanian, was marrying three Irish guy.

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But he was very well liked in a lot of circles, so they had a great relationship, and, uh, you know, it's it's kind of a great history in terms of the prominent they played and Colon and Puerto Videos statue is in the town square of Colon Aziz, one of its founders.

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On what year was it that your great great grandfather migrated to found? I don't recall the exact year it was early 19 hundreds when the job's first became available that the US was building the canal. So it was after the French occupation on their when their efforts to build a canal failed.

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They came in with an American presence. Okay on. Do you remember what year was the Panamanian independence? I don't I should know that. But I don't recall. I think it was 1977. If I'm not mistaken. No. Panama gained its independence in 1910. So the US couldn't start building the Panama Canal until Panama was a separate country.

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So was in, like 1908 or 1907 1903 That's what it waas you said it. And then that makes sense to me. In 1903 the gain, their independence. And they put together the treaty with the United States between Bavaria who brokered the deal with our congressmen. Hey, to create a perpetual lease for the United States to build a canal So, um, on growing up, you said that your father, he worked on the canal.

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What kind of things did your mom dio? My mom worked. She was a secretary back when we called them secretaries. Now, their administrative assistance. But my mom was She worked as a secretary. She went to New York for training in shorthand and dictation and those type of things and typing and all that.

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And she returned and worked for the military in Panama. So she worked at Fort Davis. And then when we moved to the Atlantic, So I'm sorry, the Pacific side. She then went to work at, uh, at Fort Amador. She went up working for the chief of staff for South com, which was the general in charge of the 193rd Infantry upgrade.

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The army that was present there. So she stayed in that role and she retired from the military as private secretary to whoever The chief of staff Waas. It was in Korea high, so she had a very high level of security. She was very strong. She was very knowledgeable about the things happening around as far as the military on and would your time there.

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Did you guys speak English and Spanish? Absolutely. Yes. Your your whole family. Yes. Everybody was, you know, bilingual. Um, you know, we had We were very fortunate growing up there to have maids because, you know, you know, one of the things that the Americans did is they employed Ah, lot of the Panamanian workers, you know, and at varying levels of expertise and way all developed.

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Ah, great love for the maids that were part of our life. You know, I remember our first made. She was a Jamaican descent. Very tall, big woman, Amelia and, uh, my younger brother, Danny. What? That was like her baby. I mean, she loved us like a mother, and she cooked for us.

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She took us everywhere. Um, s O that my mom and dad had both work. And then when Amelia retired, then Maria came and Maria didn't know how to cook at the time. So my mother taught her how to cook. Maria did our laundry for us. She basically lived with us.

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Uh, she would go home on the weekends, or her son would come and visit. Um, but she was very much part of our family. I think that most of the zone Ian's there had made and had something that was really part of their family. So that was a important connection for us.

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That's awesome. Mm. She, uh, and again. And I was just gonna Panama a month ago and I saw Maria Sigh. Of course, she's retired now, but, uh, you know, I always make it a point to go see her and her family. If I can't. Yeah, um what kind of other people?

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I guess locals are people who are not American. What degree of interaction did you have with outside people? Okay. Yeah. You know, we had, aside from, you know, the maids that we enjoyed. There was also gardeners that we employed people that would come and do things.

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We did a lot of business in Panama, whether both in the city and in the interior. One of my favorite things that throughout my life in Panama was was going to the interior pan, which meant going to the beaches or we're going to the mountains. The beaches were phenomenal.

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And so we would we would rent cabins or, you know, we would play golf at the golf courses that were built by Panamanian businessmen and entities that own them. But we love going into the city for dining. They had a great restaurants, great food and one thing about panels.

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Since it is, there are so many different, I guess ethnicities that came to Panama to build a canal. You in the West Indians, You had Chinese that came and built a railroad and built the canal. So we have amazing Chinese food. Uh, then you had the Colombian influence.

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You had Brazilian influence. Uh, there was just so much good food that you know, so many good restaurants that we would go Thio. That was really a good time. And of course, Panama has casinos as well. So that sort brought a certain type of fun Nightlife when you became of age, toe go out and enjoy the casinos and clubs and things like that.

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So a span, um, has grown to three million people. It's just a very multicultural place to do a lot of different things e as faras So so in the zone do you feel that there waas like a higher level of diversity due to the availability of jobs?

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Or do you feel that the country as a whole, it's just it's just more diverse. Er, you know, the country, I think, brought a lot of diversity to us. I think that one of the great things about the Canal Zone is that there wasn't a varying degree of classes.

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There wasn't really a poor class, and it wasn't really a rich class. It was very everybody was very middle income, very level. There really wasn't any perception of somebody being, I guess, more affluent than somebody else. So people were, I guess, very because they had titles.

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Maybe they worked at the administration building and they were a chief administrator or something like that. They might run in different circles. But for the most part, whether you ran the commissary or the bowling alley or you you work in the power dispatchers or if the locks everybody treated each other the same because they were all pretty much middle class, there wasn't anybody else better more affluent than other.

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Most of these people grew up together and chose different, different paths. Um, so I think that was a benefit because, um, you know, you just didn't have people that separated themselves from everybody else. Everybody got along and their kids played football together. Their kids played baseball together.

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E I had a great time. We played all kinds of sports that are American sports. There was soccer, of course, which is considered to be, I guess, more Latin. But way played a lot of baseball on, you know, Little League football, high school football. I even stayed around for junior college at one year of canals on college because I want to play football again and be with my friends because I didn't want to leave that culture, but eventually then came to the States and went to Florida State University.

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Oh, you went to a fest. You okay, E? I actually wanted to ask you about school. So how was it going to school in Panama? Oh, that's awesome. Because, you know, going to grade school. You know, we met a lot of friends in great schools. Great school, right?

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And then he went to Corona Junior High School. At least on the on the Pacific side. They had different set of schools on the Atlantic side. Um, but I went I live with these kids in my whole life it wasn't like I like. And sometimes in the United States, where we see when people change neighborhoods, they do rezoning and you go to a different school.

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I went to the same school with the same kids from grade school, toe, middle school, toe high school on my high school graduating class was over 500. But that included a lot of Canal Zone people as well as a lot of the military people, because the military would come in and we developed very close relationships because, well, played back on the same baseball teams and football teams.

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So they, you know, the military and and those that are there with the canals. And we're, you know, we developed great relationships. And so when we have our reunion every year in Orlando, we see a lot of the mill former military personnel or their their kids.

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Whether they graduated or not, because some people would move to a different area before their graduation, they would, you know, we're still stay in contact. Now that we have the benefits of Facebook and social media and all these things, we can almost a really connected Well, that's awesome.

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Um, what is it about you guys is community. Do you feel that that made you guys so close Knitted the fact that we all knew each other throughout our lives. It's not like we have so many people, like they went off and live someplace else. Uh, you know, the same kids that I hung around with in grade school I was playing football with They're hanging out in high school, you know, we knew their families.

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They knew us. Our parents knew each other, So we socialize together. We, you know, we did, you know, sporting events. Together we went to the beach is together. You couldn't almost go anywhere without seeing everybody, you know, Which is why when we get together in Orlando, you walk down the hallway and you know everybody in your waving and saying hello.

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Even if it was different generations, you usually knew somebody's brother or sister. And for the most part, people didn't do things to get themselves in trouble. Because if I was, you know, maybe doing something mischievous with my brothers or something like that. You know, I would run into my uncle or a friend of the family, and they'd say you know, Michael, you know, don't do that.

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Or what are you doing? You know, get on home or something, you know way. Really? You know, we weren't bad kids. Everybody really got along really well. We interacted very well across generations. It z interesting that 20 years later you guys can still meet up once a year.

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And it's you guys still have that same sense of community. E think its's culture. You know, it's the fact that we have a certain culture that we all grew up with and whether we were friends down there because, you know, as we've gotten older, you know, I made I was the class of 1978.

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But I could run into somebody from the class of 1960 and strike up a conversation, and we know the same people. And so people identify with the culture. When you were growing up in Panama, did you guys identify as American Irish, Panamanian, Americans, Americans and Panamanians?

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Those were basically two different things and way had a lot of pain. Panamanians goto our schools as well because some people, uh, that whether they own private businesses or however they got their kids to go to the US based schools and our schools were considered very high level in terms of achievement.

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We had studies done. I guess Penn State University completed studies. They had, uh, uh, teachers that came down. And, you know, I guess they tried out new things with us and stuff, but we had a very high level of academic achievement that needed to be met.

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So we had a, you know, a really good education. But a lot of Panamanians came to our schools which give us a chance to really, uh, integrate with their cultures. You know, I guess their parents also got them. They won speaking English and understanding the American culture.

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And a lot of those kids that I went to high school with, That we're Panamanian. Ended up going to the States, going to school, go to University of Florida, going to Florida State University in Texas or whatever. They're educated in the US and return to Panama.

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Um, what kind of stuff did you guys learn in school? Is faras like history? Did they teach, like, American history? Over there? They try to teach a little bit of like the local history. It is really pretty much focused on being in a US school. They taught us us history, you know, typical all the different mathematics.

00:20:16.520 - 00:20:38.770

Um, you know, pretty much like a US class schedule would look like. Way had Spanish at every level C. And that's something I see is a big difference in the U. S. I mean, we had required Spanish in grade school we had on our a day of the Spanish teacher usually would be a separate teacher from our our class teacher would come in and, uh, you know, teach us Miss Hot, remember?

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Would always come in. And she would teach an hour Spanish at every day, and she would switch classes. And then when we got to middle school in junior high school, we call it then we always had Spanish classroom. Spanish was a requirement in the same thing in high school.

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What was your teachers? They miss What? Romeo? How j r a m I l o. Okay. Um, what else did I want to ask you? Um, so you said that in 79 you went to school in 79 e graduated in 78 I went to Canal Zone college in 79.

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That was around the same time where the transition started happening. Correct. The US toe paddle paddle. Looking out. That's when the treaty was signed between Carter and Tortillas. Do you haven't do remember any experiences during that time? Yeah, I was unhappy about that. Yes, I was unhappy.

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You know, at the time. I mean, I think as I look back, I had different feelings about it now. But back then they were giving away my homeland. Okay? You're from the Dominican Republic. What if somebody says Okay? We're giving the Dominican Republic to Cuba. How would you feel about that?

00:21:51.860 - 00:22:03.860

Probably not very happy. So to me, it was my culture, and so they were given away my homeland. And even though I identify very much with being an American, I also identified with being a Panamanian. I have dual citizenship because of the virtue of being born there.

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So you know I see. It is okay. This is considered the eighth wonder of the world. This is what Americans built. Granted, there are a lot of hands in it. There was a lot of West Indians, you know, like I said before there was a lot of multicultural impacts that built the canal.

00:22:19.900 - 00:22:34.780

It's a big job. It couldn't have been American Americans could not have built it by themselves. But it was American engineering and it was, you know, to be run by Americans. And I think Americans as a country, I think at the time, you know, we were considered the police of the world, right.

00:22:34.780 - 00:22:59.770

We're gonna make sure that everybody plays fairly, and, uh, everybody would have access to the canal at the same rates that everybody else is. I think the fear waas is that Panama in some respects had been a bit of a dictatorship and that there was there was a threat that, you know, some stronger nation and outside Asia could come in and control the canal and take over the canal and cause international crisis per se.

00:23:00.040 - 00:23:23.670

It also was a great strategic point from a military standpoint for Latin America, because Latin America continues to progress and there are influences that have come in. Sometimes they're good influences. Sometimes they're bad influences. And we had our great basis there. We had a lot of infrastructure in Panama from a military standpoint, so it was It was a strategic location militarily.

00:23:24.040 - 00:23:44.920

So, you know, it was I wasn't happy about it. A lot of people weren't happening about it. Um, but the Panamanians have done a really amazing things with the canal and their growth over the last 35 years. I've been very impressed by that. Awesome. Um, during this transition, do you recall?

00:23:44.920 - 00:24:02.140

Kind of what was the conversation around it as faras. Maybe. What you hear in the media? Maybe What? Your parents sentiments? Well, my parents were born and raised there, too. So they had very much the similar sentiments. They their jobs were being taken away and given to Panamanians.

00:24:02.150 - 00:24:20.300

They were being asked to leave our friends. One of the first things that was disbanded was the canals on police force. That was one of the first things. No. Is that wrong? I just thought the police force, I mean, that's it's a pretty important institution. Yes.

00:24:20.310 - 00:24:32.560

So there was. There was a number of things that happened fairly quickly. But the police force is one of those things that we had a lot of friends with. That you know, they provided certain protections. We didn't really have crime in the canal way didn't have it.

00:24:32.940 - 00:24:52.880

So now we then became under the control of the, uh, Panamanian police force known as the Guac. Down. What year did your family migrate? My mother still lives there. I have two uncles that still live there. Um, my father lived there for a good while on.

00:24:52.880 - 00:25:16.470

Then when he retired, he moved to Atlanta, Georgia. So I still go back so I could still considered Panama. Oh, that's awesome. How old were you when you was 19? 19? I was 19 and 79 when I left. So I came to Florida State and my brother graduated.

00:25:16.480 - 00:25:35.560

My youngest brother graduated. And you know, there's a number of generations afterward. They graduated from high school, but then Bobbo became a government building and not high school anymore. While you were growing up before your big move to the States, Um, did you have any experiences like outside of Panama?

00:25:36.940 - 00:26:03.980

Oh, yeah. I mean, we we actually were required to travel to the U S. Or to get out of Panama every two years. They provided a stipend for they wanted people canals on people to keep connections with their US backgrounds and wherever we were from. So, for example, my father's family, because they immigrated through New Jersey, he every two years we could travel back to New Jersey at no cost or an equivalent.

00:26:03.980 - 00:26:19.010

Yeah, that's nice or an equivalent in terms of, Let's say it costs $1000 of traveling to New Jersey. Well, if my father wanted to use that money to go toe Minnesota, which we did to visit friends, he could apply some of that to the travel. And then he would have to come up with the rest of the money to take the family wherever.

00:26:19.020 - 00:26:39.780

So they really encouraged, uh, the Americans in Panama to keep their identity with the United States so that they would have, you know, fill American, I guess. Right? So we used to travel, came up the Disney World. When it was first opened, we would travel all over the usto see friends in Minnesota, Oregon way with the Lives Vegas.

00:26:39.780 - 00:26:53.200

Before I left Panama. You know this different things, so we travel around, but we also travel to Costa Rica. We traveled no locally and, you know, and we love spending time in the interior of Panama. It's not really leaving the country. They wanted you to leave the country.

00:26:53.210 - 00:27:20.510

Uh, so wait a good amount of traveling and my parents would go on cruises or they go to Europe and things like that as well. How was living in a dorm for the first time? And then I can't afford a state. Well, just coming to the United States was really kind of a culture shock for me because I grew up knowing everybody, and I really hadn't had to make friends on the fly, so I didn't live in a dorm.

00:27:20.510 - 00:27:34.240

I live in an apartment when I first came up because I wasn't smart enough to actually think about where I wanted to do later on and get in the dormitory. So a guy that lived down the street, he was a year younger than me, billie dot and I got a apartment together.

00:27:34.250 - 00:27:56.360

And of course, we got an apartment where we had lots of other canals on people in the same apartment complex. So there are people that we knew, but, you know, going out and meeting people. E don't know if it was just my personality, but it was a little bit challenging because way were accustomed to say, Well, you know, I know that she knows him, and she's my friend and I I can identify now, and I could go out and meet new people, and, you know, that was a little bit of a challenge.

00:27:56.940 - 00:28:09.950

It was also somewhat challenging, knowing that after I left Panama that I wouldn't be going back to Panama because growing up, I thought, Well, you know what? I maybe I worked for my uncle's company. Or I'll find a job in Panama and come back and enjoy and raise my Children.

00:28:09.950 - 00:28:34.870

Panama, whereas being told that that's not gonna happen, is it? Could be, You know, that was a new realization that I would have toe grow my own roots somewhere else. Right. Um, you said that I wanna go back a little bit. So you said that your parents were being asked to leave their jobs were being transitioned, right?

00:28:36.140 - 00:28:50.280

Maybe it's a little bit different. It sounds a little bit different, but, you know, as long as the military was gonna be there, my mother was gonna have a job. My father's job. And he stayed until he retired. you know, But he saw some of the people because he was he became a higher level.

00:28:50.280 - 00:29:07.550

He came in charge of the electrical division. You know, he was he was a big cheese. And so a lot of people as a as people left their jobs, they were, as any attrition happened, it was replaced by Panamanian skilled skilled workers. Something that had been training in that start from the bottom up.

00:29:07.940 - 00:29:25.760

I think it happened at various levels. I'm not exactly sure I didn't really play a role in that. So But we just saw overall turnover and what used to be a American roll into being a role filled by Panamanian. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about culture, Okay.

00:29:25.770 - 00:29:52.180

How the culture in Panama, the American culture in the zone on then the culture you experience moving to the United States, going to face you. Um, tell me. Tell me something about that. So culture and Panama, in terms of everything being, I guess, more convenient, less commercial because we didn't have any private industry in Panama.

00:29:52.180 - 00:30:06.610

So there wasn't a McDonald's on the corner. There wasn't. He had a commissary. You had one movie theater actually have a I have a movie theater of the Army base to, but we didn't really go. There is often way had a clubhouse where we went to for our restaurant or you had the Elks Club, which is not really private.

00:30:06.620 - 00:30:19.970

It's not a for profit entity. Um, you know, you had the Knights of Columbus, or you could go into military base and go to the officers club and eating things like that. But coming to the States and so much commercialism, I mean, Panama TV did not start television didn't come on to, like, four o'clock in the afternoon.

00:30:20.440 - 00:30:32.510

So I would watch. There was to Panamanian channels, which I would watch in Spanish and then one English channel that would come on. That would have, as by American standards, very old shows. Okay, things there were three or four years old that Americans didn't watch anymore.

00:30:32.520 - 00:30:49.380

So, uh, so then coming to the states and seeing TV basically 57 channels and nothing on and all this stuff going on soap operas. What are those? You know, General Hospital. I guess back at that time was really popular. Say, let's General Hospital So I wind up watching some stupid show.

00:30:49.390 - 00:31:06.840

Um, the game shows and all the different things that were on television and then the commercialization and fast food, which we really didn't have fast food down there. Things were pretty much made to order. Well, yeah. I mean, I was 19 years old. I was always hungry, and I would go to McDonald's and get two Big Macs, and everything was good.

00:31:06.850 - 00:31:24.410

So So that was fun. And then there's a lot of bars. And and in Florida, the time at 18, Dalla Hasi was, you know, party Central. You know, And you had all these beautiful, uh, beautiful girls. Eso a lot mawr. Ah, lot more people to connect with, just brand new experience.

00:31:24.410 - 00:31:42.700

I mean, it was just a complete different world and then going to school when you had I think back then Florida State at, like, 28,000 people. 20,000 kids in school. Um, big culture shock. Yeah. So then, of course not having a car getting a bike and everything was by bike, which a lot of kids do.

00:31:42.700 - 00:31:58.960

But, you know, it's just a It was different, very different. And then I made a decision my first time or not to go home. And I wanted working, you know, selling book store to door assed part of a kind of a collegiate exchange program, which was I learned a lot Still in sales ever since.

00:31:59.340 - 00:32:10.790

So, uh, got got to connect me with a lot of different cultures because I worked up in the Northeast, so I got to find out what New England was all about. I've never been in New England, and then I went to Ohio another summer, and I never knew it.

00:32:10.800 - 00:32:29.980

Layoffs were all about from the Ford Motor plant, things like that. So I had a It was everyone was. Everything was a learning experience, but very different from Panama. Oh, right. I actually wanted to ask you about religion, if I may. What religion did you grow practicing in Panama?

00:32:29.990 - 00:32:47.740

In Panama. I grew up as a Catholic. Okay, so I was dragged a Catholic church and cataclysm on a weekly basis. So, you know, as a kid, you just want to go and play. So my mom is, uh, you know, very Catholic. My grand parents were Catholics, actually, on my dad, my mom's side.

00:32:47.740 - 00:33:05.960

They were Episcopalian, and everybody went to church on Sundays. Um uh, you know, I really didn't see in Panama any kind of religious fanaticism, you know, like I've seen some. There's so many cultures in the United States that you just see all kinds of stuff and people that are very verbal about their religion.

00:33:05.970 - 00:33:33.010

We really didn't have that going on. In Panama, people were very respectful. Lutheran Church existed. The Union church there were Jehovah's Witness. There was, um, but Catholic was predominantly, obviously, in Panama, You know, the very strong Catholic, uh, contingency there and enjoy that very much. Do you know if your family at any point, uh, changed religion or it was just something that you guys traditionally were catholic?

00:33:33.180 - 00:33:55.520

Uh, um, my grandmother I'm okay on my father's side. I mean, they came from Ireland and my grandmother coffee, the Melinda's. It was very devout Catholic. So it was church on a regular basis. Um, on my mom's side, you know, they were Episcopalian. They went to church and nobody asked.

00:33:55.520 - 00:34:06.240

There. No nobody ever seen the change religions way were. It was determined that we were gonna be Catholic growing up I'm not sure he made that decision, but it worked out. I don't think we have that option now. Parents pretty much tell us where we're going to church.

00:34:06.240 - 00:34:25.450

Right? Uh huh. Um, it was there anything specific that your mom would tell you? A Sfar as, like, religion. Is there anything that she any values that she specifically instilled in you that you still Absolutely My mom was still remains a very, very strong her faith.

00:34:25.460 - 00:34:46.760

Because all of Catholicism, um, she taught us that the values of everything that the 10 Commandments teaches us and how we treat others and, uh, you know, that's, you know, that gets instilled into us, I think is Catholics that way have our faith, and she remains consistent with.

00:34:46.760 - 00:35:05.160

I wouldn't say that if there's anything that is, you know, uniquely given to me by what my mom said. Other than the fact that do unto others as you would have them do unto you and, you know, be, uh, be a good Christian s. Oh, you know, I maintain my faith, and I don't go to church as often as I should.

00:35:05.160 - 00:35:31.090

But I've tried to raise my daughters in the same in the same manner. Eso when you moved to the States and you go toe on American College American University. Um, what do you feel was the hardest thing about your transition, I guess developing the self discipline because I think maybe that's something that every college student has.

00:35:31.090 - 00:35:59.590

Okay, I'm out of my house. I there's no way my mom, their dad can catch up with me here. So developing the daily discipline to go to school and to and to be responsible. Um, because to me, it was like, ah, huge wow, to come to the United States and have all these people and have all access toe all these modern conveniences that I really didn't think about him growing up in Panama because, you know, it's not not like anything was an inconvenience way had a great life growing up in Panama.

00:35:59.590 - 00:36:20.350

I wouldn't give it up for anything, but, uh, hardest thing was, you know, figuring out how to manage myself to manage my schedule out of my basically a long way from home. What did you study when you want to do business? It's nice school. Um on what year did you graduate from?

00:36:20.350 - 00:36:42.550

Memphis. I didn't graduate from F S u. I liked about a year. So I went from 79 to 82 and I met my wife there we were, working together in a bar. And then we were bartending. She graduated. Rest is history. We got married, had three kids and adopted 1/4 and all girls so?

00:36:42.560 - 00:37:00.300

And they're here at the Rie union having a good time. They identify with the culture of Panama. We've been down to Panama many times. They love going to Panama. They love the food. They love the culture. Uh, so cool. Um, so you are the president of the society.

00:37:00.300 - 00:37:20.410

I am. Right. So can you tell us a little bit about your job? Sure. I've been on the board for about six years and through, I guess, a succession plan. You know, I've moved into the presidency now that was elected last year. It's an election. We have about 2500 members right now, roughly speaking on their families.

00:37:20.420 - 00:37:39.360

Eso My job is to support the membership in terms of giving them value for their membership way. Our mission is to perpetuate lasting friendships. And so we try to keep the connectivity between all those people that lived and grew up in the Canal Zone and their descendants toe.

00:37:39.360 - 00:37:52.720

Identify with the culture, uh, to come back together and have an opportunity attendance reunion. But we also have the canal record, which is a periodical we sent out every quarter that would, you know, people have an opportunity to send in articles about what's going on with their lives.

00:37:52.720 - 00:38:12.320

And we have reporters from around the nation and abroad that will write articles about what's going on with their canals and friends and what people are doing. So it gives people a way to stay connected on the reunion gives us that a really great opportunity not only to correct connect these groups for the reunion, but we can also hold the many, many reunions that happened.

00:38:12.320 - 00:38:26.610

So people that have maybe their 30th class re union gives them away toe, come here and convene and have their 30th class re union, and also see a lot of other people that would just come to the reunion anyway. Or, you know, or maybe like I've been to my grandmother.

00:38:26.610 - 00:38:49.520

My grandmother graduated from Babel High School, uh, in the early 19 hundreds. So I went to her like 65th class reunion while it also attending my mother's 45th class reunion. And then it was my class reunion, my 20th class reunion. So you have all these generations that are growing up and seeing their friends and relatives and that whole generational difference.

00:38:50.400 - 00:39:12.210

So that's unique, I think. Um, so you talked a little. You spoke about preserving those those kind off relationships. How? What is your vision? How do you see what is your, I guess, strategy for that. What do you think is the best way to reconnect all of these people?

00:39:12.210 - 00:39:32.650

After all of this time? It's a challenge because we've all gone different ways and, you know, all over different parts of the world. We really work hard to try and get people to maintain their membership, you know, fortunately, in this day and time, we have the benefit of social media and email and things like that that we can get people get in contact with people.

00:39:32.620 - 00:39:46.430

But there's sometimes people that don't want to be connected with, uh and one of the challenges that we have in our societies that we're getting older, and there's a lot of our people that ran the canal that worked for the canal zone, that air passing away.

00:39:46.440 - 00:40:00.580

They're getting older. So my generation I never really worked on the canal. You know, my parents worked on the canal or or defended the canals. Supported the defense like the last generation was like the last generation. There are younger generations. Also the knee that stayed around.

00:40:00.580 - 00:40:22.040

But they changed. They became. I see they became mawr Panamanian because they integrated more with Panama. Uh, you saw more Panamanians coming into the school, which is a good thing. Um, but I think as we look at the longevity of the society Ah, lot of people say that we won't be around, that we're going to basically be extinct in a matter of time.

00:40:22.510 - 00:40:39.800

And what I think is that, you know, I'm 55 30 years from now I would like to still be coming back to my reunion in the high school reunion. You know, if I'm around, of course, which I hope I am. Uh, but does that mean that this society might look different, that we might have to think about our society in a different way.

00:40:39.800 - 00:40:54.770

I think so. I think our Children will create a different kind of look. But hopefully we can preserve the culture that has made us so great. And people will identify with that and want to come together. Um, what are the kind of things that you do teach your daughters about Panama?

00:40:54.960 - 00:41:15.500

Well, I take them there so that they can understand the cultural differences, the food, the people, because the people of Panama are beautiful and it's just a beautiful countryside and things to dio, you know, Panama was recently recognized for the last two years, is one of best countries for well being in terms of people that are happy with their lifestyle, business in their community and things like that.

00:41:15.500 - 00:41:37.240

So, you know, I've taught my kids about appreciating the art of Panama because we have so much beautiful artwork that comes from there. The food that we enjoy, um, they go to Panama and they wanted they love to go back to do the jungle. My fondest memories of panel was a kid was being in the jungle e I love the jungle.

00:41:37.250 - 00:41:53.390

We'd go on his kids and build forts and chasing, Finding wanna and spiders and snakes and things like that, and that was we loved it. So I take my kids back. We go to Thean Teary er, we go up as far as the Costa Rican border and we go white water rafting or we do zip lines.

00:41:53.400 - 00:42:08.190

We camp in the jungle and stuff, and it's it's wonderful and they love it. It's a part of the world that they just can't see in the United States. How does your wife feel about it? She loves it. Do you still have you taught her how to cook any Panamanian dishes?

00:42:08.200 - 00:42:27.850

Yes, she likes she prefers it when I cook, but but, yeah, she she likes the different dishes she loves. Corvina said BJ makes a VJ which she loves. And, uh, so, uh, she loves shrimp. Stevie J. You know, we like arroz con Pollo, the Panamanian style we love Johnny Mazzetti.

00:42:27.850 - 00:42:44.940

That was kind of a canal zone dish that we made with the sauce A sauce, which is like a mushroom sauce that I get out of Panama that we used to make that she loves the hot sauces that I can't. Uh uh different things that we because she likes spicy and way even make a jelly of a pepper from Panama and I jumble that way.

00:42:44.940 - 00:43:11.860

Make way, actually sell it here. The re union way. Call it sweet heat. So eso I kind of wanted to ask you about the legacy of the Panama Canal, how it affect its immediate community. It's common knowledge that it has. It's obviously a contributor to the economy right now, the Panamanian economy and at one point, the U.

00:43:11.860 - 00:43:39.220

S economy. Um, but as far as its legacy, what has living there and your experiences there? What you as an American, what can you take away from that? I think we established a tremendous legacy. Way created the eighth Wonder of the World. The Panama Canal isn't that day with one of the world, and when you look at it the way that was finished and completed in 1914, up to this day, it's still running the same way.

00:43:39.600 - 00:43:55.580

So there's over 100 years of running the Panama Canal. Granted, there's been repairs and things that need to be done. Um, but all of the equipment used to manage the equipment at the Canal is all made on site. You know you don't order parts from Japan or China or the United States.

00:43:55.590 - 00:44:14.440

They build in machine, everything that's there, that's that canal is still running and it's still relevant. Today's world. That's a long time. So tremendous legacy. And, of course, the Panamanians air creating the the new canal for the Panamax ship, the big super super tankers to come through.

00:44:14.440 - 00:44:28.810

It's gonna be wider. It's gonna be longer. I was down there and saw it last month. It's beautiful. They're starting to feel the walks right now. Uh, it's quite an engineering feat, but the engineering and the technology that's available today is not what it was in 1914.

00:44:29.690 - 00:44:45.890

A lot of blood, sweat and hard labor went in by a lot of countries into building the canal. So I think it's a tremendous legacy, and I think that that legacy is going to continue because the existing canal still gonna be very relevant to, um, shipping world.

00:44:45.900 - 00:45:09.350

But then I think the new canal is going to revolutionize that even a lot more. Um, you said that you a t first, um, you weren't so sure about the transition of giving the canal back to Panama. But now what? What are your sentiments about it now?

00:45:09.360 - 00:45:27.490

You said that you have positive sentiments and that you are very happy with the work that's being that has been done by the Panamanians. But can you elaborate? A little bit off, kind off. How you transitioned from your first state of mind to how you feel now changes reality.

00:45:27.500 - 00:45:52.620

I mean, uh, what we could do in terms of allowing that transition happen? Certainly we didn't want it to happen at the time. You know what happened and change is imminent. You're gonna Everybody has to move on. You know, we hope that I guess my hope is that Panama would do a really good job in terms of maintaining the canal and making it better and providing ah, great source of income and pride for their country.

00:45:53.150 - 00:46:17.570

Because a lot of my friends are Panamanians and live in Panama and do very well. So I'm really happy with what they've done. And the fact that they took on this great endeavor toe widen the canal, make it even better, I think is remarkable. They're done a tremendous job, So I can't say that at the time my sentiments would have change because we don't know what what would have happened if we hadn't turned it over.

00:46:17.580 - 00:46:41.920

Maybe it would have been imminent. I don't know, but I think they've done a great job. Um what? What? What was the best part about living there? I have so many great parts of that living there. I think first and foremost the friends and family, the sense of the culture that we had in terms of growing up together, it was very, very personal.

00:46:41.930 - 00:47:04.900

Ah, lot of friends that in my life Lifeline Lifetime friends Uh huh. But I love the cultural difference. You know, when I'm in the United States, I missed that culture that I see in Panama having the Latin influence. And, um, you know, the food and the people are just really great people.

00:47:04.900 - 00:47:22.060

They're always very nice because you have certainly very poor people that are in Panama. You have very affluent. There's but everybody treats everybody very well. You know it Z always smiling, having a good time. Um, I certainly miss it, and I always look forward to getting back there.

00:47:22.140 - 00:47:37.350

How do you have any plans on moving back. Now I'm moving back. I think my wife would like to move back, but I've got too many daughters in the States now, and I would have toe would want to continue to live the United States. But I could see myself spending 3 to 4 months a year in Panama.

00:47:37.400 - 00:47:57.360

Asai retire on the current position that you hold now as the president of the society. How long is that? It's a two year term. And then if I decided to another two year term, I can eso, usually with belongs will be four years. And then I would have to be the immediate past president, whoever the next president is.

00:47:57.360 - 00:48:19.260

So I stay on a Z, a member of the board, and I you know, I assist that president with anything they need help with so that they kind of transition. A swell is possible. What do you love the most about your job of the society? The chance that I have, uh, be here every year, you know, and have a great time with seeing all the people that come back each year way have a great board.

00:48:19.260 - 00:48:45.400

We all get along very well, so we know each other personally. We get together socially, and so it's more fun than it is work. It's not a job or say, you know, to me, I see it a serving, You know, I served the membership and I'm doing my part, and in the future, somebody else is gonna do their part and I'll help out Well, before we wrap up, was there anything that we weren't able to talk about that you would like to have on record?

00:48:47.470 - 00:49:04.690

I think he covered really, really everything that things that were important to me in Panama. You know, I think it's Panama's unique also in that it za small strip of land between two oceans and really one of the most beautiful things about Panama was being able to be in the Atlantic in the morning in the Pacific in the afternoon.

00:49:05.070 - 00:49:22.830

And so you see the sunrise you see the sunset, Um, uh, you know, being able to go snorkeling or diving or whatever in the morning in the Atlantic and then enjoy the food and the people on that side and then going later in the afternoon and doing the same thing on the side was pretty unique.

00:49:22.830 - 00:49:41.930

So the ocean, uh, the sea is just so beautiful there. So the great fishing and everything that exists is I know what a lot of people go back for, what they really enjoy. Well, we're very grateful for you sharing your story with us. Thank you. No problem.