00:00:00.340 - 00:00:18.850

Okay. My name is Chan. So Sarah is July 4th, 2015. We're here with Miss Lori Snow talking about her experiences in the Panama Canal Zone. So thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview today. We really appreciate it. Um, if you could start by you telling us when and where were you born?

00:00:19.340 - 00:00:46.150

I was born in Gorgas Hospital in an con. Panama on October 8, 1959 to the parents of June Rally Stevenson and Davis Stevenson. Okay, So how did your parents end up in the zone? Fourth generation. My great grandmother was a telephone operator. Went down in 1913 to be a telephone operator and my father on my mother's side of the family and on my father's side of the family.

00:00:46.150 - 00:01:08.360

My grandfather was three newspaper editor for the Star Herald newspaper and Panamao. Wow. So what was that like growing up? Your father and you, Superman? What did your mom dio? My mother worked for the Panama Canal Company. She worked for the Marine Bureau for a number of years on Pedro Miguel locks and then was moved to different offices, including the administration building in Panama.

00:01:08.540 - 00:01:24.690

but she put in 30 plus years of service with the Panama Canal Company on her grandfather was a tugboat pilot on the Panama Canal. So what is your earliest childhood memory growing up in his own? Well, actually, I did not grow up in the canal zone.

00:01:24.700 - 00:01:45.790

I grew up in Panama City, and the reason was because my mother worked for the Panama Canal Company. But my father did not, and the canal zone was a run by males. So it was determined if you were not a man and head of household, you are not entitled to live in the canal zone or go to canals on schools or have privileges for the commissaries, etcetera.

00:01:45.800 - 00:01:59.250

So we were based on the fact that my mother was the woman. She was not the man in the family ahead of household. We were not allowed to live in the canal zone. Okay, so you're going to kind of many in schools. It's actually no, We did.

00:01:59.250 - 00:02:16.670

Goto did goto the U. S. Schools, but we had to pay tuition to go to the canals in schools. We did not get it free. Like the men in the canal zone that had Children attending school. Okay, but did you have siblings? I did. I have older brother David Stephenson is well okay.

00:02:16.680 - 00:02:31.940

Now what was your earliest memory growing up in hand in the city? What do you remember as a kid growing up there? Right? But both my parents worked, so we had made and the maids would take me down to the little local park in Panama. Thio hang out with the other little local Panamanian.

00:02:31.940 - 00:02:50.130

So I'm fluent in Spanish. Which a lot of the Americans that lived in Panama because they lived in the canal zone. Um did not have the opportunities that I had to learn Spanish. And so I'm actually fluent E Do you remember your made their names And where they came from?

00:02:50.130 - 00:03:10.850

Absolutely. My first made her name was Guillermina. She was from Herrera, Panama. She was mean. Hate her. My parents eventually fired her and I ended up with two maids. Pollyanna, which basically meant ran the house. And Adella, who was my nanny? The child until I was older and they took care of me almost like mothers.

00:03:10.940 - 00:03:27.540

Okay. I'm a terrible from Panama. Yes, they're both Panamanian women. Okay, Now, what do you remember about your parents jobs, like in the stories that they told you from what they did at work? Anything that you guys? Well, my father was actually in the Army Reserves, so he sold insurance and most of his clients.

00:03:27.540 - 00:03:42.110

Where the Americans living in Panama on then my mother. I just remember she would goto work. We would come see her sometimes that Pedro Miguel, and see the ship's going through the locks and she collected the tariffs at one point was a budget analyst and collections of terrorists from the ship.

00:03:42.110 - 00:04:00.580

So I just remember as a child being a part of my parents life, my grandparent's did still live there at the time. And my grandfather was a tugboat pilot. So there were opportunities from you get on a tugboat to go through the canal. A lot of my friends parents were captains and had other jobs, and we'd get on ships to go through the canal.

00:04:00.580 - 00:04:22.090

So my whole life was a mixture of Panama City was a young person. And then, as I got older and would participate in the school after school activities, I got more involved in the U. S community. So can you tell me about that? The friends that you had when you were younger in the PanAm Assad and then your friends and the zones like what was going back and forth between those relationships?

00:04:22.100 - 00:04:38.180

Well, there are also a lot of Americans that lived in Panama City besides myself, and we would ride the same bus to work or to school. Um, first, we were not, um, able to use the US bus service. So we had hired a local driver who went around and picked up people just like us.

00:04:38.190 - 00:04:56.690

My best friend was American whose father worked for Bank of America. They had no connection to the canal. They were lived in Panama. We rode to school together on then most of the Panamanians did not go to US schools. So as I got older and started going off to school, I was exposed less and less Panamanian friends and more and more to the U.

00:04:56.690 - 00:05:10.870

S. Friends. Friday night we live near a school called LaSalle. Earlier in Panama was an all boys school, and they had a skate night, and I used to meet all the little Panamanian boys because I go up and go skating. Other times, I would go to the skating rink in the canal zone.

00:05:10.870 - 00:05:25.750

So I really didn't mix my two lives between Panama City and to me, it was to my advantage. Okay. What were the names of the schools that you attended? I went to an con elementary for a couple of years. And then, for some reason, my parents moved me to Baba Elementary.

00:05:25.750 - 00:05:42.030

I really don't know why, but I ended up bad boy elementary, then went to Karen Do Junior high school and then bauble high school, where I graduated in 1977. Okay, so what do you remember about your first year of high school? E was a big sport nut person.

00:05:42.030 - 00:06:01.930

So in high school was the first time you really had varsity and junior varsity. And so I did a lot of the athletic programs I got involved in The student government, served as class vice president when I was a sophomore, and then my junior and senior year served under the, um, different roles in the capacity of the school.

00:06:01.930 - 00:06:18.900

Admit the under the president and vice president of the whole school student body. Okay, And do you have any favorite teachers and special memories from high school? You know, I just love my years in high school. I think my favorite teachers gosh, golly, I could probably name or the ones I didn't like.

00:06:18.900 - 00:06:39.240

That one I did like It's funny how the ones e had good memories of high school and any time that I was also really involved in the local church, the battle Union Church, and did a lot of activities through that. And I just loved I played tennis for the school and did other sports, and I'm trying to think of what particular teacher stand out, and it's funny.

00:06:39.240 - 00:07:01.420

I could see their faces, but most time their names were gone. I have to go back and research that the thing that's important about my life, as I shared earlier, mhm because my mother was not head of household. She eventually hired. She decided she was going to sue the United States for sex discrimination because if a man had the situation, she could live in the canals.

00:07:01.420 - 00:07:19.970

Um, and the canals and administrators were very cooperative with her, but also said those were the rules and the only way that she could live in the canals and is she divorced my father and they just lived together. My mother, of course, said to them, You don't ask the men to divorce their wives.

00:07:19.970 - 00:07:35.380

So living the canals on why should the woman divorce their husbands? And that's sort of about the time they decided they'd hired a local attorney. And that local attorney said this was a little bit bigger case than he could handle. And the courts in Panama were administer through New Orleans.

00:07:35.550 - 00:07:50.920

And so at the time, Ruth Bader Ginsburg served from the New Orleans court and she hired my mother, hired Ruth Bader Ginsburg to service her attorney to represent her on the sex discrimination case. What year was that? You know, I had the legal brief it home.

00:07:50.930 - 00:08:11.580

I know what was happening through the early seventies, late sixties early seventies. That was back when the women's movement was real strong in the United States. They did win their court case, and then she went to get entitled to all the same privileges. But the time we owned a nice home in Panama City, and they opted not to move into the canals um, but we did that that point, get free tuition.

00:08:11.580 - 00:08:25.700

And and then she decided to go back and sue for all the years she paid tuition. And then they retro back and it became class action. So any of the women that were like my mother, they got the same entitlements that my mother got at that point.

00:08:25.710 - 00:08:41.200

The thing that makes it interesting is my mom kept trying to get some of the other women that were in the same situation to join her court case. They were all afraid to join their court cases because they wouldn't say threatened, but they were basically told that it was not a wise choice for them to join June in the court case.

00:08:42.140 - 00:08:55.310

Okay, so your mom had living in Panama for a while before she decided Thio, take that case to court. That's correct. Why do you think she decided at that moment that it was something that she needed to fight for? You know, I almost wish my mom could be in on this interview.

00:08:55.310 - 00:09:07.600

My mother is now suffering from Alzheimer's but probably does have her distant memories, and my father could probably enlighten a little bit more, but I think it was. The women's movement was growing. And at some point, you know, you start thinking, Well, why am I paying for tuition?

00:09:07.600 - 00:09:23.020

I have I'm a grade 12. You know which all the other men that were great 12 could live in the canal zone and your fire supported her. Absolutely supported her. 100% folks. Great eso you were in high school of this was going on junior high and high.

00:09:23.030 - 00:09:37.860

So what were your memories of all this? You know, there was no trickle down effect to me as faras No one gave me a hard time about it. I was excited for my mom. I thought was a pretty cool idea. And when she they didn't share a lot with me.

00:09:37.870 - 00:09:51.070

E only know a lot of the facts. Now, as an adult, I went back and checked into it, and my mom has since provided me with full legal briefs. So I've got all the information available. Does she have any? Any special story that she told you about?

00:09:51.070 - 00:10:09.640

Working with Ruth Ginsburg as her attorney? She just said that when Ruth Bader Ginsburg met with the powers that be in Panama. The Ruth Bader Ginsburg called them dinosaurs because they were living. You know that this was a modern day and that women should have the same privileges men and they needed to get over themselves.

00:10:09.740 - 00:10:26.900

And so roof it against her came down to Panama? No, actually, it was all done through the courts should never actually came to Panama. Never. Okay. Wow. And that became class action. So, you know, if other women that were working that were in part of the city and ended up going moving back into many of them did take advantage of it.

00:10:26.900 - 00:10:42.200

My parents eventually did. By the time they did, I had already left and gone to college. Eso I personally never lived in the canal zone. Now, when I would come back to visit, I would at that point, get to stay in the canal zone. But I do still consider myself a zone in because I went to the canals on schools, I hung out with all of them.

00:10:42.200 - 00:10:55.860

I went to the Church of the Canal Zone. I graduated from high school, but maybe I'm a little bit more of a Pan Azzoni in, supposed to just a full zone, Ian. Okay. And so you graduated you 7. 17, 77 77. And then you went off to college.

00:10:55.870 - 00:11:17.490

That's correct. So you graduated that you get the treaty with stuff That's correct. Well, is that like I still lived in Panama City, And I remember when Jimmy Carter was going down via spaniel, which is the main drag. I actually walked down our house, stood on top of what We lived right near the American Ambassador, walk down the hill, and he drove by in his big old limo, waving out the side with his famous Jimmy Carter smile on Guy.

00:11:17.490 - 00:11:34.770

Remember, he went on a naval base and made some sort of comment about the Army. And of course, he got booed. So it was perceived that he was booed in general, but it was because he didn't. He didn't rehearse the speech properly. The wrong thing. Um, so I do remember that going on.

00:11:34.770 - 00:11:50.290

And, of course, a za child living in Panama City. I didn't touch about this during the riots. Panama would have riots actually lived near the University of Panama. We would get tear gas out of our house. We have to go live with my aunt who lived on one of the military bases till the rights would calm down.

00:11:50.290 - 00:12:12.120

I remember leaving our house and seeing burned out cars on the street. Cars turned upside down. So it was really interesting being a part of Panama's trying to gain their independence from United States. What did, um, your parents feel about what The what the Panamanians were expressing with the riots and what they thought that they have the rightto have, like what you're saying?

00:12:12.130 - 00:12:26.540

Yeah, It seemed to be that there were certain groups of Panamanians inciting the riots and causing amongst students getting the students fired up. The same thing happens here in the United States. The students seem to be the ones the best ones that go after a take a fight.

00:12:26.550 - 00:12:47.770

The poor Panamanians, they didn't want us gone. They liked us there because we employed them way. Help them out a lot. So I think I think it was definitely a division. Did we need some kind of treaty? Absolutely. The United States really made a mistake by putting offenses and really excluding the Panamanians from the life.

00:12:47.780 - 00:13:04.350

Because I grew up in Panama City. I had both sides of the story in the Panamanians feel like they were being short changed, that the United States had taken this five miles on either side of the canal and basically said, You're not welcome. Had guard posts set up and that kind of thing so I can see why I kind of wanted it.

00:13:04.360 - 00:13:18.180

Do I agree with how the treaty was negotiated? I absolutely do not. Why not? I think that we were way too liberal on what we gave Panama. We basically just said, Here's the keys. That yours, Onda Panama has not been good stewards a lot of what we gave them.

00:13:18.180 - 00:13:34.340

And if you go to Panama, you see a lot of skeletal buildings, and I just think that it could have been done. Did we need one? Absolutely. Wasn't handled right. My personal opinion, a normal Joe on the street was I think we probably were a little too generous.

00:13:34.350 - 00:13:49.290

Okay? And so when you graduated, what college did you attend? I went to school in Georgia West Georgia College. I went there to play tennis for them. I'm a big tennis player and would come home in the summers and do summer internships on the canal and then go back to school.

00:13:49.300 - 00:14:06.750

My school. Susan. So I always like going back and forth between the United States in Panama. You know, I couldn't wait to go home, especially in the wintertime hated winner. I've never lived through a winner in the Panama. We didn't have winter, So when I got to college, I had no long sleeves, no winter clothes, no winter coat.

00:14:06.760 - 00:14:21.430

Didn't know what to expect. Showed up in the dorm. They don't give you sheets. House. We went over toe a local store and bought sheets. The only thing they had were these child alphabet sheets that I used in college. Bought a coat, bought a flannel shirt and sweater.

00:14:21.440 - 00:14:36.060

Lived in the laundry room in the winter time. Um, and then I'd come home, and I had two groups of friends. I had my American friends I made in college and my American friends in Panama. Okay. And, you know, for your mom, what did she say about her job change after the treaty?

00:14:36.060 - 00:14:55.010

That what was it like knowing that you were transitioning things for another group? People to come in? Yeah. Um Well, she did see some transitions as an American would leave a job. They were hired by Panamanians. But my mom is a very easy going person. So for her, she just did her job and she respected the rules that were in place.

00:14:55.020 - 00:15:09.120

Okay, well, she treated differently after she won the court case. Did anybody have a negative take to it? Well, you know, she didn't get moved around a number of times. I don't know if she put in for job transfers, because maybe she wasn't treated as well as she should have been.

00:15:09.130 - 00:15:25.830

She doesn't. She didn't share a whole lot about that to me, mainly because I was a little bit younger. And I think she wanted to protect me from any possible problems. That would be I had a teacher once a school, her daughter's name. I remember Daughter went to school with me, and I don't remember the teacher's name, but I remember her daughter's name.

00:15:25.830 - 00:15:43.120

And she, um, cornered me one day and asked me how the court case was going that she had not joined the case. But she knew that if my mom one that they would all get class action. That was the Onley contact that I remember having with any other of the women that were in the same boat as my mom and that still sticks in my head.

00:15:43.120 - 00:15:56.850

That one thing thinking, Wow, she knows about it. The ladies in the Canal Zone or the women that were like that. We're all fighting silently for my mother to win. So do you think that your mom, I don't know, she might have felt a little bit isolated?

00:15:56.850 - 00:16:09.510

Because here she is, absolutely. Find this on her own. She couldn't get people to join her. They were afraid to that they might lose their jobs or get promoted or get treated poorly. You know how to be hard. It's like they were supporting her, but they couldn't be there with her.

00:16:09.680 - 00:16:24.230

You know, there are still people within this society here that we're the ones my mom fought against, you know, in time heals all wounds. There's no hard feelings. But there was a time when they were going after each other. It was offer, and they should have gotten equal rights.

00:16:24.230 - 00:16:41.120

There was no it was a canal zone was under old style it It's still a lot of things about it today within this society that we're still governed the old fashioned way. A probably shouldn't expand on those. I don't want to get myself in trouble with anybody that might listen.

00:16:41.120 - 00:17:03.880

Thio A lot of respect for society. I've been a member since I can remember. I'm a big donor of trips that give different events. Um, e have been with have donated to the museum. I'm not current. So Okay, until how long did your parents stay working in Panama?

00:17:03.890 - 00:17:18.710

My parents left in 1989 the year that Noriega was ousted. Things have gotten really bad. My mom said she'd had enough. She was eligible for retirement, so she retired. I think six months later the United States came in and got rid of Noriega, she said. Had I known they were coming in to get rid of him, she probably would not have left.

00:17:18.710 - 00:17:34.780

She loved Panama. I would love to come back today, but her health is unfortunately she's not able to do that. But the Panama was what she she was born in Panama. A swell way were fourth generation. So what have you been back? E. Go back all the time.

00:17:34.780 - 00:17:49.070

Actually, the business I'm in, I take bring people to pound him all the time. Okay. And what does it feel like? Not going back after the zones. The canal has been transferred. It all? Yeah, it's changed. It's changed a lot. The landmarks are still there. The ANC on Hill is still there.

00:17:49.070 - 00:18:10.980

The canal still there. Panama has done a remarkable job of growing that city expanding the highway system, running the canal. I wasn't as optimistic. Back in the late 1900 late 19 nineties, I wasn't sure how effective would be. But the transition time from when the treaty was negotiators turned over.

00:18:10.980 - 00:18:26.680

The United States teamed up with Pamela, did a good job of educating the Panamanians that came in. And I think Panama was doing a great job. I'm proud to bring people to Panama and share my history of my life there. My probably my biggest negative comments.

00:18:26.680 - 00:18:40.060

I'm disappointed the Panama doesn't give the United States a little more credit for what we did there. If you go to the different venues, the museums and the movies that they show, they barely mention us. It's like they want to write us out of their history.

00:18:40.060 - 00:18:58.540

And that's sad to me. It was a long time. A long time. So hard years. Yes. Okay. And after you graduated college. What? What's your e your job? Go back down upon them or what exactly did you feel like there was a future for me as an American in Panama because they weren't hiring Americans that have been hired.

00:18:58.540 - 00:19:12.380

I've been hired as a Panamanian. I do have dual citizenship, US and Panamanian passport. But they were paying the Panamanian rates, which were lower than the U. S. Rates. At least that's my understanding. And I really was ready to get out of Panama. I was really mad at the country because of what?

00:19:12.390 - 00:19:27.880

Because of the treaty. I had some hard feelings, and I met my husband and decided I wanted to make my life the United States. And now I thrilled to go back to Panama mine in some ways kind of regret that maybe I didn't come back and give Panama fair shake because I think they've done a nice job.

00:19:28.360 - 00:19:43.990

And what is it that you doing your job? I'm a travel agent. O s o. You do go back there off. Yes, I do. Okay on. Do what You said that you've been a member of the society for a long time. What is it? Why do you keep doing that coming backstage?

00:19:43.990 - 00:20:02.380

Reunions? Well, I believe that way. Have a very special thing in Panama, Americans down there. And we need to make sure that it's not for gotten. And I'm thrilled that University of Florida has taken on the responsibility of stewardship of the Zone Ian life because it will is my generation dies.

00:20:02.390 - 00:20:16.730

My Children have a lot of respect for it, but they don't have the memories. They didn't live there, live all been there and seen it. And I think it's a great place to go, but so we need to keep this going. It's not their home, but it's right.

00:20:16.740 - 00:20:30.970

It's your home. That's right. That's right. Okay. Even though I've been living in the US longer than I lived in Panama, I still feel like Panama was my roots here in Panama. It's your family had a long history there. You know when you will have to leave.

00:20:30.940 - 00:20:44.510

How was that to leave a place that you have been there for a very long time. They have family ties to your roots there. Yeah. When my parents left, I was pretty wrapped up in my own life. I had a child. I was pregnant with my second child.

00:20:44.510 - 00:21:07.730

I had a career in the United States, and and, like I said, I had walked away from panel. That was I didn't go back for 10 years, at least financially was one reason I was a new mother with Children, and it was just not something. Um, so you know now that once I went back after I've been gone a while, like God, I can't believe I waited this long to go back.

00:21:07.740 - 00:21:30.620

Okay? All right. I guess my last question would be if you could use one word to describe your experience living in his own. What word would it be? Uh hmm. Unique. Very unique. When I see how people in the United States we got one English television channel down there back then, you doesn't get much more of it.

00:21:30.620 - 00:21:43.560

And it was only on certain hours a day. General Hospital, which was our soap opera, was always two months behind. So anybody that came to the states. We always say, Tell us what's going on on General Hospital so we would know in advance. The football games rose two weeks late.

00:21:43.540 - 00:21:56.640

Eso It was a very unique life. And you don't you don't realize how unique it was. I mean, how many people could sit on the back porch and watch a sloth go through their yard? Or just? It was a lot of fun. It was a very different lifestyle.

00:21:56.650 - 00:22:20.980

What would you like your Children to know about? You haven't grown up in the zone, and like that part, it's Yeah, they weren't raised it, but it's also part of their family history. I just don't want them to forget that what role the United States played in that canal and how my family was strategic in being a part of the building of the Panama Canal and then maintaining it until, in my family's case, 1989.

00:22:20.990 - 00:22:38.250

Um, and that's what that's what I fear is that Panama, as I mentioned earlier, I feel like it's rewriting history and barely mentioning us, and I don't want our our legacy to be lost. Actually, just remember one thing. You have much that you were very involved with your church.

00:22:38.260 - 00:23:06.940

What was religious life like in Panama in his own way, went to a union church, an interdenominational And And I had a great time that our youth minister was fabulous and I learned a lot and had a lot of fun. And we had church camps up in the interior of Panama that we would go to for summer for a week or two weeks and e I don't know what it was like United States because of my own church, not life is in the canal zone, but e I enjoyed it.

00:23:06.940 - 00:23:22.120

It was a place for me. Thio be with other people that had the same beliefs I had. Okay, that's really nice. So I actually don't have any other questions. I don't know. There's anything else that we didn't cover it anybody that you would like to add, you know, I just appreciate the museum doing this.

00:23:22.120 - 00:23:51.660

I think that the museum needs to take a hard look at the women's role in the Panama Canal Way. Talk a lot about the Roosevelt Medal of Honor holders. In 99% of them are men way. Talk about the Canal Zone as a whole. But I think that maybe the school should take a little time to explore the women's side of what happened in the canals on that whole lawsuit my mother had that needs to be part of that canals on history, and I don't want them to get for gotten when she won the cases.

00:23:51.660 - 00:24:13.180

I ever end up in the newspapers at the time. I don't you know, e I don't think so. I think it was. They didn't want anybody to know that the males of the Canal Zone were defeated. Wow, because you know, that was a very big case, and they want I would imagine that it would have with all the New Orleans Supreme Court that right not.

00:24:13.340 - 00:24:32.060

And what would you say? That it's a special contribution that women have made to the canal zone? Well, they were strategic and administrative type roles in the Canal zone and e there was, they were Maybe they weren't the captain's, the pilots on the ships or the pilots on the tugboats or the governor's.

00:24:32.070 - 00:24:48.900

But, you know, they were. They were a foundation that was critical to the survival of the canal zone and, um, again that that's the one reason I did this interview is I want you guys when you're preparing the history the canal to maybe set aside a special part of the women's role in the Canal Zone.

00:24:48.900 - 00:25:00.260

I think that's important. ISS. You know, I was just thinking, you know, we do a lot of these interviews and it covers, you know, the 19 hundreds and a lot of it. You here in the United States Woman didn't do much. Did that have secretarial jobs?

00:25:00.260 - 00:25:24.700

But thes are enemies where it's very evident that most of the men and women did work. Not that it didn't happen to United States. I just think it's not talked about us much. But here you very you know, you know that if a man, if a couple were married and the husband died and he worked for the canal on the woman was a housewife or or worked for something besides Canal, she was forced to move out of quarters in the canal zone.

00:25:24.940 - 00:25:39.880

They were forced to move in the Panama City or lead to go back to United States. They were not allowed to stay on because they weren't working for the Panama Canal Company, and I guess in a sense, that makes sense. But it had they. Some of them may have worked for the canal, but because the husband yes.

00:25:39.880 - 00:25:58.280

What and voted with the same thing happened in ordering, like, the other way around. Yeah, so, you know, take on the job of writing your dissertation on the women of the Panama Canal. I think that would be a fun dissertation. Alright, What? It's just right. It's not a covering topic.

00:25:58.640 - 00:26:13.300

And they didn't just have second tale of jobs From what we've been covering India. What's the origin? Cook was one of my bosses summer internship. She had a pretty high up job with four Captain's office. Um, she was a wonderful woman to work with. She's another woman, has has some health issues.

00:26:13.300 - 00:26:31.530

But certainly if you ever want to reach out to me, that's my information. Thank you. Has any interest in either receiving a copy of my mom's e? Wouldn't want to give the original, but I'd be happy to make a set down to the museum. I think that would be a valuable e will be invaluable.

00:26:31.740 - 00:26:38.740

Okay, I don't have any other questions? Is there anything else you would like to add? No. I appreciate the opportunity to do this. What? This concludes this interview.