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All right. Good afternoon. My name is Chan. So, Sarah, today is July 4th of 2015. We're here today with Mr John Turner talking about his experiences about the Panama Canal Zone. So, Mr Turner, thank you so much for agreeing to do this enemy today so we could start by you telling us your full name.

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And when and where were you born? John Mackintosh. Turner E was born at Gorgas Hospital. 7. 20. September 20th, 1940 to 1942. Okay. How did your parents end up on the zone? Well, my father was a freshman at Ole Miss, and his father was acquisition, and his name was Seneca.

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Socrates turned on. He was almost the oldest of seven or eight Children on. His father died in this city when he was in his sixties. And so my father had to drop out of college and he went back to Hattiesburg, Mississippi, where he grew up. Yeah.

00:01:05.930 - 00:01:29.960

Yeah, He worked in a clothing store there for about eight years. Yeah, he had about six or seven brothers and sisters working for the Panama Canal, so they somehow talked him into coming down or arrange for him to come to the canal zone on. He started off as a signal man.

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I believe that the possibly a gamble signal station on. Uh, you may have had one other temporary job with a non canal employees, but after you've been with the signal department, whatever they called it for a number of a time period, he got a job in a payroll office on.

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Eventually he became treasure The second treasure of the Panama Canal. I came into the story, Uh, he talked my mother into coming to Panama. 19. He went down there in 1934 on. They got married down there in Washington. Well, they spent their honeymoon in the Washington Hotel Crystal Ball in 1941 e believe I was created about 20 days after polar Harbor was bombed because you figure it count back.

00:02:38.350 - 00:03:01.590

E was made on about the 20th of December. That's the reason is that my theory is that they weren't allowed because Pearl Harbor had been bombed. They weren't allowed to turn on the lights in the canal zone for quite a while. You couldn't drive your car around at night with the lights on and kept your house dark because there was a podcast.

00:03:01.650 - 00:03:17.970

I thought that the zone was gonna be the next. So I just was thinking before I came in this room. If anybody has done a study to see if there's a increasing first around September October of 1942 they knew that when they had a blackout in Atlanta once, right?

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Or in New York somewhere. You know, I think I'll post the questions that I very see if they want to pick up that study, Did your mom work at all on this? Um, my mother worked at the Canal Zone library, where she was in charge of the archive vault and the museum.

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And just like a regular, uh, librarian duties. She was an English teacher. Had its Berg before my dad took her to Panama. I got her to come down. How do you know how they met? They went to high school with each other with their high school sweethearts.

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That's sweet. Um, okay. So what is your earliest childhood memory? Go? Do you remember about growing up? The earliest memory was I ran away with that runaway. My mother was calling me, and I think I was a year and a half old. It was about a block away from the house.

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Mm. Remember, there was this giant lizard that lived in our yard. They have big lizards in Panama. They lived in a hole in the ground. I remember that. That's my earliest memory. Okay. How did you have siblings? E have assist one sister. She's 18 months younger than I am.

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My name is Nancy. Nancy? What would you guys dio growing up, play games, Have fun playing the jungle Cowboys and Indians? Roller skating, swimming A lot of e didn't target shooting. E became kept on a rifle team in high school. E was captain a rifle team in college.

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E went to Stetson University in the land. Florida, where that is a major. Did biology. Okay, So before we get to your college career, let's go back a bit. Thio, What high school did you go? Thio High School. High school? What about Boyle Elementary School? Okay.

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What do you remember about high school? What would you all dio with your friends but activities that you would you be Oh, high school e? Well, I didn't do any sports. E don't remember a whole lot about doing, but I just didn't like to study a whole lot.

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E Uh huh. Um, do you remember much about, like, different immigrant communities and selling people that come from the way, had a maid she lived in under our house? She had her own quarters. My mother taught her a whole lot. My mother got really upset when she decided she wanted to get the States to become a citizen.

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She lost somebody is really a lot of help her. Do you remember what your main was from? E Do not You're not. Her name was Melvin Melvin. I don't wear one of those. Okay. Do you remember much about religious activities on his own? E went thio.

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Wasn't the Union Church okay? Yeah. Did it have a youth camps and that sort of thing? I remember going to Sunday school every week. Oh, try and remember. But I wanted to any youth camps. I don't I don't remember doing that. Did you have friends that did not have understood?

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Never. Just Panamanian citizens, mainly Zonen's. I mean, some of them might have been, uh Well, it's namely that who ever lived in your neighborhood because I walked to school, you know, way had Panamanians that were in our high school, but then they would go home back to Panama City or wherever they lived.

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So we didn't play with them unless e. I think there were some Americans they probably lived in Also. E was scouts. I was a boy Scout, but I wasn't. Excuse me. I was a Cub Scout, but I never was a Boy Scout. Theune. When I was about ninth grade, maybe E became an explorer Scout way.

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Did a lot of Al Gore going in the jungle hiking, going out in Cayugas E k. You could raise three times a day. Least maybe four times. I'm not sure, but I wanted them. I was in the winning boat when I was a junior high school and senior high school in 1959 in 19 sixties.

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When I graduated, graduated. Do you remember much about the riots that happened in 1947. 47? Yeah. There was some 47. There were. Well, I was only five years old. E didn't even know there were riots in 47. Okay, What was that about? What does it say so.

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You know, it s someone of the same issues. You know, Zoe being transferred. Panamanians. That's everything. Okay? I wanted to also act so when you were in high school growing up, what did you want to be when you are older? Well, I wrote a term paper on being a heart ranger once.

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I e think I wrote one on being electrical engineer, maybe. Oh, e When I graduated from high school, e didn't really know what I wanted. Todo So my parents had some friends. I actually lived across the street. They would send their two sons to a prep school.

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A prep school in in Savanna Park, Maryland. It was a year after high school on e got to go there in the room. Next to me was George Areas. He's from Panama. Famous family animal. Okay, so what was he? Well, I make their family famous. Well, this is one of his relatives.

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Was president of Panama. Okay, so I don't know if it was immediately leave with areas is a big place. Yeah, like Roosevelt's for somebody in the United States. Okay. You were his friend. E didn't know him before I went there because he had been going there a number of years.

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E Okay, what was it like? What was your friendship Like anything special? Well, uh, he was just a guy in the room from next door. Hey, was in control of the light switch. Okay, So, like, around nine o'clock 10 o'clock at night Hey, would throw the switch on all our rooms would be without electricity.

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E Wade, You take trips back to time with him. Way were just rumors. Next door neighbors are rose. Okay. It was nice because I wasn't the only guy from there. What was it like? Going to live in the United States after having grown up in e was homesick every day.

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It took me 20 years to get over being homesick for Panama. Oh, that's very special, Thio. OK, eso you were at that prep school, and then you said you went to Simpson. Well, then I Yes, well, there were only 21 in my class, Okay? It was Annapolis prep school.

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It was all males. It wasn't a military type prep school way Just forward ties and coats battle Never. Where Kobe I knew we were high on I was the only one in my class. There wasn't trying to go to Annapolis E No. My roommate Wednesday. Annapolis.

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I haven't kept them. Two of the other guys there. One his two of one of his father was base commander. Maybe, uh, or Clayton. And the other ones was a base commander of the naval base. So there was four. Was there? Eso They had military background?

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Yeah, they had a military background. She didn't know. So what was that like? Way were Friends Way would run into each other in the canal zone a couple of times, I think. Okay, what year did you start? College. Oh, okay. I graduated in 1960 from high school, so I spent the next year at Severn School.

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That was the probe school on. Then the following year, I started a Stetson, so 62. So I graduated from there in 65. 65 December of 65 65. But I didn't get my degree tall. They mailed it to me. That's what happened, Waas. Oh, because my parents worked with Canal Zone.

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They would come. They would accumulate their leave. We would come every other year to the states on. So I would take courses during the summer. Uh, a t in Hattiesburg at the University of Southern Mississippi. Just have something todo on. When I was in the middle of my senior year, Stetson e went back to Panama, was always for Christmas.

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I'd rather go to Panama than my parents would want to come to the station Christmas. And I said, I don't want to goto iceberg. I want to go to Panama. So one year I went to Panama on that came to the states and e forgot where it waas.

00:14:14.340 - 00:14:44.250

Um Okay, so I was home for Christmas, Okay. In 1965 on board, then our semester didn't until January. Okay, so I had to come back to the States to do my finals and do term papers. So when I got through with that, I had to decide what I wanted for the next semester.

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And I was adding up all my hours, I realized I didn't need to be there because of all the summer courses I had taken added up to more than I needed. So I went back to Panama. Well, there wasn't anything much to do there, so my parents didn't want me hanging around eso.

00:15:11.640 - 00:15:42.270

Hello, Right. I have decided I wanted to go to dental school. I thought, May It seems like possibly when I got through. Before I went back to Panama, I probably went and got interviewed at several tunnels dental schools. But later on in life, I learned a most dental schools had quotas from states.

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Since I was living in Panama, I wasn't aware of the procedure to probably get one of those seats. So I got a job in the canal zone temporarily. Uh, the only a really good thing I learned in high school was typing in geometry. E was a good type this.

00:16:04.750 - 00:16:21.960

So I would take to get a job in the canals on a lot of were typing positions so I would take the clerk typist test, and I was so good I'd always be on the top of the list. So every time there was an open, they'd have to call me to interview me.

00:16:22.340 - 00:16:49.380

Eso I got a couple of jobs doing Titan for different offices. Okay, on then and then I decided to go to graduate school, so I came back. The Hattiesburg, Mississippi so if you do some graduate biology stuff, uh, that didn't work out. E don't think I was good in nothing violent.

00:16:49.390 - 00:17:09.520

I wasn't motivated. Uh, learn all that stuff. So I went back to Panama on on. Then the draft word kind of indicated the My number was coming up. So I decided that I wanted to be a jet pilot. Go to Vietnam. Okay. And that? Is that what you did?

00:17:09.530 - 00:17:37.850

So I took all the tests, and I I got a probably a 96 on pilot contest that they gave me and accepted me for pilot training on. So my parents and I went out to Fort to all broke Air Force Base one Monday morning to swear him so I could go toe flight training officer school?

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No. Well, we got out there. The recruiter says John has some bad news. President Johnson just today closed offices for implied school temporary. They were kind of trying to decide what they were going to do in Vietnam, so he was slowing things down. So the draft board that was Monday.

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And so the draft board said if I wasn't in somewhere by Wednesday, I'd be in the army. So that was a good place to be in Vietnam. No, I was in ROTC in college and I said just a second. Lieutenants lived nine seconds in combat. Oh, I think that's what I remember.

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So anyway, the recruiters said, Well, what you could do is enlist. Mhm. I took two years of ROTC in college. So then when I decided I didn't want to be a dentist, there wasn't any point of going to more years of college to get a commission in the Air Force.

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I mean, in the army, a za lieutenant. I wanted to go to dental school. So So I said, Okay, I enlisted two days. Two or three days later, I was in Lackland Air Force Base doing basic training. So I spent Christmas so that your oh in Lackland Air Force Base your dog.

00:19:08.740 - 00:19:36.870

Then I was assigned Thio. They had to assign you to a career in the airports. I guess they offered General assistant several of the X ray technician and medical technology. That sounds interesting. So I had a degree in biology, so they they let me sign up for medical technology and ends up.

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It was the longest course. We're not listening. Person of the airports had. So then I also found out after I was in that program for a while that I could not reapply toe officer school, apply training until they have pleaded my training as a medical technologist.

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And I think it was about a year and a half later that I got my permanent base. I've been working there is a laboratory technologist for, I don't know, six months or maybe a year, and one day they called me to the orderly room and said, Turner, you've been accepted the pilot training.

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You didn't go through the chain and to me to this day, I don't know how that happened. E don't remember reapplying. It's possible they just had me on their list and they went through it or one pilots. They pulled my name out. So I said, Well, let me think I need the weekend to think about this, E said.

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I've already been in three years. You guys want six more, so it's on. When I first applied, I was single and I'm married. Way got married in the hospital at Lackland Air Force Base and my wife is also born in Canal. So I should tell you how we but so we had the weekend off.

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When I came back, we drove around Florida, went to Marine world and I kept thinking and thinking came back and told him that I was not interested. I would serve my time is a enlisted person Get out. And what happened? Waas uh, our hospital was lab waas staff by maybe six or six lists.

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I'm just gonna make up a number six or seven Air Force personnel and an equal number of civilians. Yeah, Hospital has to work 24 hours a day every day. Civilians can only work 40 hours, so we six or seven guys had to cover the hospital for the all those extra hours for no extra pay.

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The guy that sat at the front desk collecting the mail got the same page that I worked working 60 70 hours a week. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, I remember when I was working in the blood bank, I might have been on duty for, like, 20 some hours without sleep, having to do cross match of blood.

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Oh, I'd be so tired. I have to get the manual out to do stuff that if I was normally, would just do routinely. I wouldn't want to make sure I knew what I was doing. OK, so what did you do after you came out of after your enlistment period ended?

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Well, what happened? Waas Right after I decided not Thio to become an officer, I got another letter from the next President Nixon. And he says, Dear John E. I'm just making up. He said you're getting an early out. You're in Lisbon was for four years. You're getting out 10 months early.

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Whoa, whoa. I don't have a job. I don't know what I'll dio e. I mean, that was coming up, like, two months or something. I mean, what am I gonna do? So, somewhere in the interim, I my wife, I realized she couldn't see too good, So I took her to an optometrist in Tampa or she wanted to get contact lenses.

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If you want to be a pilot back then you had to have perfect vision without glasses, so I never needed glasses. I never had never really had a regular Isaac because I always passed all the tests without So while I was sitting already. Knew I was getting in early out was sitting behind her, watching the doctor examined.

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Maybe that's what I'll dio. So about three months later, I got accepted to optometry school. Uh huh. Um And then when I got out, the lab was short, so short of of staff that they hired me back at my same job as a civilian part time.

00:24:27.440 - 00:24:44.910

I could only work 39 hours instead of the 70 hours e. I didn't have to take orders from the military. E was a civilian. They were very nice. They let me work there until it was time for me to leave to go to Atomic. Your school.

00:24:44.920 - 00:25:08.920

Okay, that works that really nice. So you became an optometrist? I'm an optometrist. I've been practicing since 1973. Okay, So how did you How did you and your wife me? That was a really cool story. And I would like to hear your really cool story. It is, um, Charlie Cross.

00:25:08.930 - 00:25:36.480

He's Azzoni. Um, he's about one or two years younger than way were best friends on. He had another best friend named Gordon Boswell. Well, Gordon's dad was a very talented person he was blocks maintenance supervisor would have He was a by trade. He was a machinist.

00:25:37.090 - 00:26:01.560

But because he was so smart, he became kind of more like a supervisor. And he built sailboats and he had just happened. Thio have a 35 ft try. Miranda. He was getting ready to take to the Perlis Islands. And there in Panama on his son Gordon on my friend Charlie.

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We're going to go. They kind of needed 1/4 person. So they asked if I would like to go. I didn't know Gordon or his dad. So my parents went to the yacht club to check out the boat, see what he's talking about. So I went on the trip with and Gordon had a girlfriend.

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Hello? On dso when I was dating Lynn My my wife. No. Excuse me. I was not dating e didn't have a girlfriend. Excuse me? E like that. I've been losing my place in my life. Okay, so I didn't have a girlfriend. Um, so we were down to Perlis Islands.

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We were going to take two weeks of sailing. Then after about a week, Gordon was missing his girlfriend really bad So he taught his dad coming back to Thio Amador Yacht Club. But crazy. I mean, it's trip of a lifetime and he couldn't wait another week.

00:27:09.730 - 00:27:27.560

Well, in the meantime, I started. I was hit it off with Lens Dad, my wife's father while we're down there, he says. You know, I didn't know that. I never met her. He says You ought to meet my You ought to meet my daughter. We've been married 49 years.

00:27:28.540 - 00:27:49.550

Oh, wow, that's a really nice will be in October. That's a very nice story. She picked us up with the pure. Was it love at first sight share? Her hairs were in rollers. Are you still married? Way started dating way, Go out on the sailboat, play tennis.

00:27:50.780 - 00:28:18.230

Then, uh, then I had to go on the Air Force like I told you so while I was in basic, you know, I was in laboratory technology school back at Lackland Air Force Base. Way would talk on the telephone. She had she and several friends, girl, friends of hers in Panama Canal decided they were tired of living at home and they all left together.

00:28:18.230 - 00:28:39.370

And Brendan Apartment and Granny they all got jobs and were living there. One day she called, said she wanted to be a stewardess. Well, if you knew stewardess that was I figured I would never see her again. Eso That's when e guess one of us that let's get married.

00:28:39.380 - 00:29:19.680

So she included San Antonio were married in the hospital there. Oh, wow. Okay. And I drew her blood for our blood test. That's something. And another funny thing, that's not funny. It's just when I was on your medical technologist, you had to go through different oh areas of training and, like your analysis bacteriology, parasitology one was blood banking on the the CEO in charge of the blood bank was Lee Harvey, all Sewall's half brother.

00:29:20.010 - 00:29:44.490

Wow. His name was Sergeant Pick P I. C. Oh, you can look that up on the Internet and you'll see he had to testify between the warning before the Warren Commission every minute of his life. I'm gonna find out. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Eso How long were you in up Thomas your school?

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For four years. Four years after I got out of the airport. Okay. And did you go back to Panama? while you were in school? Um, mhm. Well, we were I was married when we're at school, so that's I'm having trouble remembering that part. I might have gone once.

00:30:05.550 - 00:30:23.670

Okay. And then where did you practice after you graduated? Where did you start practicing back where my father mother lived. How? Doesburg. Mississippi. Okay. And then, which is where the University of Southern Mississippi is your parents where they're still working in Panama or had retired by then.

00:30:24.540 - 00:30:47.550

They My father retired about two months after we got married. Okay, so they figure they didn't need to be there anymore. Why? No, I think he had enough years in. Okay, Retired. Okay, So what were your thoughts when the Garridos Carter Treaty gets done in 77?

00:30:49.240 - 00:31:15.860

It was horrible. But here's Here's the bad thing my father died of Might in 1977 about I forget one day, asked, my mother called me and said your dad was in the backyard. I started coughing blood up. Three months later, he was dead. He died the day Jimmy Carter signing a treaty.

00:31:19.060 - 00:31:38.850

And I didn't realize that for quite a while, because I was a time I was so upset over my father being ill that I didn't. One day I was listening history about the slamming of the treaty in the way. Wait, what day was that? It's the seventh of September 1977 I think.

00:31:39.820 - 00:32:06.650

Wow. So everybody smoke like crazy in the canal zone back. Okay. I saw his lung cancer. Never been sick a day in his life that I remember and he quit smoking. The day the attorney general, my mother said smoking was not healthy, but remember, we didn't have air conditioning in our house when I was on.

00:32:06.660 - 00:32:28.700

If somebody cost across the street, you could hear him when we had a neighbor's on a long time. So Okay, Um, did how you've been back to Panama since I do you go often. I went, I think when I started practicing in 1973 we probably went back in 1975.

00:32:28.710 - 00:33:05.010

I think on her father had built another sailboat, a bigger one on on New Year's. He had prepositioned toe Chris Tobel, which is on the Caribbean side. We lived on the Atlanta on the Pacific Side and New Year's Day. Well, New Year's Eve way went over to crystal Ball and slept on his new boat and came through the canal locks on New Year's Day morning.

00:33:05.910 - 00:33:30.040

Went through the Gattine locks, went through all the way to the elbow. Yeah, And then a couple of days later, we went on a trip to the Perlas Islands for about a week on spokes. Four of us. You, my wife, That was That was cool. Okay, Um, were you the person who discovered that, too?

00:33:30.050 - 00:33:47.260

That's, like, donated to the pattern theology the museum at, um e M P. Do you wanna tell us about that? I brought you a copy of the article. U s so cool. This is in our local paper, but it's also in a journal of paleontology. I brought this for you.

00:33:47.340 - 00:34:11.300

E actually have the tooth up in my room. Oh, Thistle is of course. So how did this happen? It's like a hobby. Okay? No. Okay. Remember, I was in scouts? Yes, this was Explorer Scouts. Well, Frank Townsend, Who's my friend out here? You know Frank Townsend?

00:34:11.310 - 00:34:43.090

He was interviewed today. Yes. Okay. His father, He's He graduated 58. Perfect. Thanks anyway, his father did he say his father started the kite. Curtis. No, I didn't interview him. My college do. Anyway, we've known each other most of our lives. Now, Um, we were post three explorers.

00:34:43.120 - 00:35:20.170

Duck. So when I was a senior in high school, the Canal Zone Scout Council had created a Boy Scout camp called Camp Sh Agger's at Madame Lake. On they were I was on the high school rifle team on. They were gonna have rifle shooting. There was one of the merit badges on a person in charge of the rifle rant was a military list.

00:35:20.180 - 00:35:40.020

Uh, sergeant, I remember his rank on you, and I used to target shoot with him a little bit. So I became his assistant mhm at the target range. And then scouts would generally come just like they do in the States. I think they come like, Sunday afternoon.

00:35:40.030 - 00:36:01.060

Go home variety or something. So Oh, they needed somebody to the guard the camp for the weekend. So I volunteered to do that. It was more fun to stay there and look for stuff than it would be. Thio, go back home. So I That's how I found I some fossils.

00:36:01.060 - 00:36:25.960

I was the first one I found was a mega Ladan to e was in the sky you go with and we were just piling around out from the Scott, camping us. I also wonder what that is over there. I got a little closer and it was a perfect clean, beautiful make a tooth on after that man, I was That's all I want to do is look for apostles.

00:36:25.970 - 00:36:46.540

So one day I was just walking around by myself. Andi, I saw this thing and I went picked it up. E think right away I realized it was a tooth. I mean, what else? What would it be? Other people that saw said, How would you know that was a tooth?

00:36:46.540 - 00:37:03.120

I said, Just looked like a rock to me. Looks like to me Eso I My mother worked at the library, so And she did the museum. They had apostles and museum or something. Anyway, I started looking at the books and decided it was a master doctor.

00:37:04.030 - 00:37:25.040

I kept it in a box for all these years until until until that story there. So that stories Yeah, Okay. And how did it feel? Like, you know, you turned it in and you find out it's a big discovery. E couldn't sleep in my e the first.

00:37:25.130 - 00:37:50.680

Um what happened? Waas Dr. Bruce McFadden. Well, do you want me to tell this? Yeah, it's all there, but just Helen. Okay, so what was it 92 years ago? It was 2000 and 13. E came to the society meeting here in Orlando. Um, e think it was a different hotel there.

00:37:50.680 - 00:38:22.210

Marry young? Probably waas because last year we came back here anyway, uh, before we came here, they had read in the program that Bruce McFadden, paleontologists from the University of Florida, was going to talk about the fossils that he was collecting along the canal because of the new dick with lots eso I took one a couple of my megalodon teeth.

00:38:22.210 - 00:38:39.000

With that I want to show him on dso At the end of the lecture, I approached him instead. I had some fossils that are found in Panama and I showed him He says all these air, very thes air, Very nice teeth. He says they're not rare, but they're very nice.

00:38:39.000 - 00:39:18.750

He says, Where did you get him? I said Nan lake and I feel like he said, where you didn't know about Madden Lake. And so and I said, Well, I also found a what I think is part of a mastodons too. So I said, I said, It's like this tooth right here which I think was man must choose Maybe, but I said, It doesn't look like that, but it's kind of e think it's a mastodons Anyways, we'll send me a picture of So I sent him a picture and then he sends right away back.

00:39:18.750 - 00:39:48.070

He says A friend, a colleague of mine, Gary Morgan, I think is a paleontologist is into Perlis Islands right now looking for mastodons on if your permission. I'd like this sending this picture. Sure this he's not medical thio. It's not a secret. So So then So then shortly after that, I got another email from Bruce.

00:39:48.070 - 00:40:20.640

He says Gary Morgan thinks that this tooth may be scientifically important. We'd like Thio. We'd like to examine it. Mhm. So So I I've wrapped it up really good and triple box that I think and send it. Thio Gainesville. I don't know. Oh, a little later I got another email and Dr McFadden said they had kind of decided it was a gun folk here.

00:40:21.640 - 00:40:45.640

So I want I just said Okay, so I went to bed. I woke up. I was thinking about that 3. 30. I got up, I wrote him an email said I looked up. What a gunboat there. Waas. I said, Bruce, I said I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't a master Don or something.

00:40:45.640 - 00:41:10.450

And and then I went back to bed when I got up. Yeah, it's sent me another email says John. Don't worry about it. I'm fathers are much more interesting than mastodons on it. Turns out it has never been found in Panama before or since. Saddest, Incredibly, I've had it for 55 years.

00:41:11.510 - 00:41:37.430

The other funny story that I I'm going with. Document that a group of them to Panama on the 20th of this month on a boss of collecting expedition, really, with 10 12 teachers that's incredible on way have to be, uh, permitted through the Smithsonian Institute in Panama.

00:41:37.910 - 00:41:59.950

And when I got out of college and I went back to Panama, E was looking for a job. I applied at the Smithsonian Institute. They didn't hire me But if they had a heart, they'd have found out about 2, 57 years ago. E s. It's kind of funny.

00:42:00.600 - 00:42:23.320

It is. So as we wrap up here, why don't you keep coming back to these reunions Was so special about, um Oh, friends, your friends. Mhm. I wanna stuff. Okay. What else do you are talking about? E just wanted a acts. Have you been to the zones?

00:42:23.320 - 00:42:48.880

This has been transferred in Panama. Oh, yeah, We've been way. Laurie Snow. That was just in here. We've taken her to her twice. Okay, way went with another group just about two years ago on her own. Okay. What are your thoughts about the canal now that was being operated by Panama?

00:42:50.400 - 00:43:15.270

E Think there looks like they're doing a good job thing? Doesn't look the same. But that's why I'm excited. Going back Thio To where? Mad Lake. It will look the same. It's a national park and you can't go there without now. They now that they didn't paleontologists in Panama.

00:43:15.280 - 00:43:35.390

Our geologist didn't know there were apostles there. So So when this project is over with the locks, they won't feel to go looking for fossils there because they won't be digging and the jungle will grow back. Eso where? I found it in that lake. It's 20 miles away from the canal.

00:43:35.590 - 00:43:56.580

Roughly. They can go back every year or any time. Look for fossils. So it's like a new place is exciting. That makes it another. You have other place. You have to let me know how it goes and you find anything? I've found other stuff there. Are we recording?

00:43:56.590 - 00:44:15.600

Okay, I'd enjoy recording it. I found that this is a wild story. Do you want to hear the wild story? I gotta check it out. I found a gold cufflink and I found that tooth in 1959. But two years before that, I was with our scout troop.

00:44:15.790 - 00:44:39.190

Frank council was there, and the Camino Real, which is a Spanish gold trail, comes through, man, like it wasn't a lake. Then it was just jungle. Why? The Shackles River is if I understand. But I've read there was a little village right there. The Spaniards would bring oh, the gold out of South America that they stole it from the Indians.

00:44:39.840 - 00:45:04.930

They would collected there and then take it down the shag. It's river to support San Lorenzo Or maybe holiday over toe portobello. Well, once Sir Francis Drake came and raided, He came all the way to that town with a bunch of whatever. His guys stole the gold and silver away from the Spaniards and ran back to Portobello.

00:45:04.940 - 00:45:24.270

They couldn't They had to drop part of it because it was so heavy on, um and so there's one day way spent a week up. There are scalp post, post, three way. We're working on a 50 miles patch, which means you had a paddle. Our hike camp 50 miles.

00:45:24.280 - 00:45:53.770

So we were going all over that lake trying to get our 50 miles. One day, Frank Townsend found a piece of eight, and I found a gold cufflinks s I've always been wondering. Well, it's not Indians didn't wear cufflinks on. Then I tried to find about cufflinks on the Internet, and it seems like they were only started making them around the middle of 15 hundreds.

00:45:53.770 - 00:46:17.070

I'm not sure it said you almost can't find one until you get to like Williamsburg Times. And but there were laws apparently called sanctuary laws. I think that said Onley. Important people, I don't know. Exact definition could wear jewelry. Do you know about that? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's something that's just, you know, the higher up.

00:46:17.080 - 00:46:35.500

Yeah. So if you were just a regular person, it was against a lot of wear jewelry. Probably couldn't afford something too. So mhm. Yeah. Can't be stopped a minute. I'll show you a picture of the couple. That's your kids. Show me after the end. Okay, so I have this cufflink.

00:46:35.510 - 00:47:04.740

Yeah, and so on. I have this wild idea. There's a slight possibility that belonged to Sir Francis straight. I'm really cool. Um, I know another gentleman who's deceased. E think his name was George Chevalier. I'm not sure. He was on a lived on the Atlantic side, and he found a gold toothpick, which was I'm not quite sure.

00:47:04.740 - 00:47:29.260

The size. Maybe one or two inches long, for sure in between. And it had. It was shaped like a zai. Remember? Pictures on the Internet like an Arabian sword? Maybe. And it had a man's name on and through the archives in Spain. They were able to determine it belonged to the sheriff along the community.

00:47:29.260 - 00:47:58.860

Really? a town. They're sold it through Christie's auction house to unknown persons for an unknown price. So I'm wondering Hey, what happened? E that money for my cufflink e need to find a scientist. Yeah, that can date metal e just read about a process where they can a Blake Gold Mountain and determined its origin.

00:47:59.000 - 00:48:21.230

Okay, so I just have one more question. And that is, if you could describe your experience in the zone in one word, what would it be? Best place on earth. Okay, um, is there it right? Um, is there anything that you would like to say? Like something that you would like your Children to know about growing up in the zone?

00:48:21.240 - 00:48:53.920

E. Guess the main thing I would like this is to thank my parents. Mhm. Quick over there. All right. E don't have any other questions, Children. Yeah, we took them. Oh, okay. Children. Yeah. Um, well, my wife's parents are both dead. Died several years ago and we had their ashes.

00:48:54.970 - 00:49:13.580

Yeah, well, my wife's brother actually had the ashes. Eso he didn't want him anymore, so he sent him to us. Um, Linz. Dad always says, Well, just keep my keep me on this mantle and shaking here once a week s. Oh, my wife got tired of doing that.

00:49:14.070 - 00:49:39.800

And our Children had never been to Panama. So we got permits from wherever you need. Thio from Panama. I think I think you have the rightto Washington gets papers way took their ashes to Panama. Yeah, and we went to the Balboa Yacht Club, where her dad, um, always had his boats.

00:49:40.270 - 00:49:58.860

They walked down the end of the pier. This was just It was almost dark. And, uh, where I wanted where I thought I wanted to put him in the end of here. There was a boat tied up there filling up with whatever fuel they used on.

00:49:58.870 - 00:50:15.290

Asked the man here I said, How long do you think they'll be here? Because I got Mr Balls holes that Mrs Boswell's ashes here He says, Oh really says no, We'll do better than that. So they have a little launch. They take you out to your boat.

00:50:16.040 - 00:50:34.570

So he says, get bring the ashes. Mr. Mrs Boswell, Everybody get in this launch. We went out in the middle of the canal, put their ashes out there right in the channel. That's really nice. It's a cool place. Okay, well, I don't have any other questions.

00:50:34.570 - 00:50:49.020

I don't know if there's anything else that you would like to say that we haven't talked about. Are you guys stop? It was like story, and this concludes this interview.