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Okay. Good morning. Today is July 24 of 2000. 14,015. My name is chances here, and we're here with Mr Whitney. Um, Mr Whitney, thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview. If we could start with you telling us your full name and when and where were you born?

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Okay, my name is Harry. David Whitney. And I was born and, uh, Colon Panama in 1949. Okay. How did your parents end up in the zone? Okay. My dad, I was working for the Navy. Uh, he'd gone down here to visit his brother. My Uncle Fred, and my uncle Fred was working with the Navy at that time, and then he got hired on to work there at, uh, at Coco Solo.

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And, uh, he started working there as, uh, a plumber. But he also was electrician, but he was hired first as a plumber and everything. And then later on, he became electrician, started working as electrician there. My mother, uh, went down to see her sister, which I was married to my uncle Fred.

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And so we had what basically happened is two brothers married two sisters, so uh, you know, there's a lot of double cousins there and everything like that, but that's how my mother got down there. She went to see her sister and then met my dad. They fell in love, and they ended up getting married.

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Okay, um, what were the names of your parents? Okay. My dad's name was Harry Bradford Whitney, and my mother's name was annoying me. Calvo Piatra. Mm. Okay, So then you're your mother's family is from Costa Rica, right? Yes. Okay. So, um, when did you when your mom came to live in the zone?

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Did she have a job? Uh, she was just down here visiting, uh, her sister and everything like that. And it wasn't really that long. Uh, after she was there that I think my dad and my mother got married within a month after they met. So it was quick marriage.

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Mm. Uh, so Okay, um, did you have any brothers or sisters? Yes, I have an older sister. And then I have two younger brothers. My sister Grace. She was born in Margarita. They're in the canal zone. Uh, and then I was born in, uh, along the same hospital that John McCain was born in.

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And, uh, my brother Jimmy was born in Milan also, and my youngest brother, Billy, he was born in gorgeous hospital. So as a child, what is the earliest memory that you have of living in the zone? I remember living there in the Coco Solo, Uh, and I remember going on base with my dad because I love to see the military stuff.

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They had some seaplanes down there, and they also had destroyers that came in once in a while. And I remember that in some of the housing there and then from Coco Solo when my dad got hired on with the Panama Canal Company, uh, we moved over to page Miguel and we and that was in the early fifties, probably right around 54 55.

00:05:01.530 - 00:05:48.970

And then from there, they moved us out of Petty Miguel and we ended up going to an con, Uh, and a reason why they moved us out of petty Miguel. They're going to make tear down the old houses and build the town site for for the, uh, some of the, uh, West Indians that we're working with the canal and everything, like that and build that community.

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They had already built Paraiso for them, but they also wanted to build something there. And And Pedro Miguel. Mm. Did you as a child have much interaction with the West Indian communities? Uh, some. Yes. Okay. Mhm. So sometimes you would play ball with them baseball, and but there was some interaction there.

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Uh, although they try to keep, you know, the town sites, uh, segregated and everything like, but, uh, but, you know, for sports and everything like that. He had a lot of the canals on people interacting with west end end. So Okay, um, so you have mentioned that your mom is from Costa Rica?

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Did she try to instill in, um, us a child? Her culture while you were growing up? Yes, but I think we just automatically, uh, we have my grandmother, while Lolita, she lived with us for for quite a while and everything like that. So I she didn't speak any English is good in a sense, that I learned Spanish in order to communicate with her.

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And so, yes, we picked up both cultures there and everything like that. What would your mom and, um, your ability to say about living in Panama compared to living in Costa Rica. What was that change like for them? My mother liked Panama. And well, later she, uh, like living there.

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But she had a lot of her other kids back in Costa Rica because she would take off once in a while to go back to the visit for other kids here in Costa Rica and everything like that. And, uh, and I think she passed away when I was probably about 12 or something like that.

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Okay, uh, but she would go back and forth every day. Uh, probably twice a year and everything like that. She would go back to Costa Rica and spent some time there with with family. Okay, Um, what are, um I guess some of the memories that you had growing up in the zone things that you know, games that you would play with your cousins and your friends.

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You know, your childhood experience, like there? Well, we were pretty. The Panama Canal Company was pretty good about having the right creation service, you know, services for the kids and everything like that. The jam. And so we played, uh, we grew up playing, you know, baseball and, uh would go play kickball there.

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And during the summer months, they even had the gym open for us. And they had activities for us, archery and a lot of other games and everything like that that we could sign up for. So they're pretty good about keeping us during the summer months actor, but even throughout the year were active playing sports and everything.

00:10:01.540 - 00:10:44.860

Usually we play baseball during the dry season, which is from December through maybe April. And so we stayed pretty busy. And then we also got into the fishing go out to Amador the Causeway and everything like that and do a little fish. And so we're pretty much we stayed pretty active when you played in the sports teams were those just what we, um, young boys and girls are just, you know, they had male teams and female teams.

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They had male and female teams, but mainly it was, uh, baseball. We would play. Uh, if it wasn't a league thing, that was that was based on the gender, the mail or something like that. But at the school or something like that, if we were playing baseball.

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It was the both, uh, girls and boys and stuff like that. Something that the neighborhood kids would get together and everything like that We have. My sister was very athletic and everything like that, and uh huh, she could really hit a ball and everything like that.

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And a lot of times when we were selecting teams and everything like that, everybody wanted to take my sister. Uh huh. Because like I said, she could hit a home run and everything over the fence better than some of the guys. Uh, and she can still do it today.

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So what? Yeah, but we would get together and play different games and everything like that. So mhm. Did your dad take you to work with him a lot? That you? Yeah, I I went with them a few times. Yes, and, uh, he was also involved with.

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They had a locks association and everything like that. And they had coke machines and everything like that and what they would do. The coke machines, whatever money they generated from that. My dad was taken care of that, but they would user for funding for, uh, anything.

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What? The organization would do if it was somebody that was retiring, they would use the funds to throw the guy a party or something like that. Or if somebody was really sick or something like that, then they would donate money and an organism, you know, to help the personnel.

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So, uh, but, uh and then he took me there to show me what he did and everything like that, because he was electrician by trade, but he also was a plumber. But he worked mainly as electrician. And then, uh, anybody that had a tray would also ride the locomotives to pull the ships through the canal and everything like that.

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Sometimes they are working. What would they call the mule that would be working in the locomotives or something like that? Sometimes they'll be working in the shop, repairing them. So, uh huh. Uh, So they were doing both and everything like that. So I was able to see what he did and everything like that, and appreciated what he did.

00:14:26.840 - 00:14:56.410

Okay, um tell me a little bit about your time in school. What elementary school did you attend? Uh, when I first when I started kindergarten, I was then uh, Pedro Miguel when we were living there, and that was probably right around 1954. And it was just a small building, and probably And they only had the kidney in the garden class there.

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We weren't with the other elementary school. And where there's probably about 15, uh, people there in the class. And at that time, I was speaking more Spanish than English. So in the very beginning, I had a little bit of a problem. But later on, when we moved from Petr Miguel to anchor on, I started first grade bubble elementary school.

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And it was nice there. And I went through up to sixth grade there, Uh, and it was a good experience. I had good teachers and everything, so Okay, you know, you had mentioned that you know you would You go with your dad and you'll You'll see things in the canal.

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What was it like? As a as a young child to grow up with that, you know, and astonishing sight, you know, does there every single day Did that impact you? In a way, yes. Uh, yeah. There was really He felt, I think secure. And, uh, you had everything that you needed and everything.

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Like basically. And, uh, yeah, the sports keep you busy at sometimes. And then we would get out until the jungle sometimes and go through the jungle and everything like that. And then we also have wars with other, uh, kids our age and everything like that. Like we're different tribes or something like that.

00:17:01.440 - 00:17:29.330

But, uh, it was nice in that sense because it was just a different ways of growing up and everything like that. You could go up into the Jungle Explorer up there and everything like that. You can go down and, uh, and playing the playgrounds, Uh, you felt really secured and everything like that.

00:17:29.330 - 00:17:55.620

There was It was just a, uh, a good place to grow up. Uh huh. Very secure place. Mhm, um, speaking about the security of the zone, Um, talking about your mother. Does she have or most of her friends, fellow zone Ian's? Or were her friends? Panamanians.

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What was that like for her? She had, uh, Panamanian friends and then American friends to, uh and then sometimes she would even have coast. Three other Costa Rican friends had married Americans down there, too. So, uh, so And then she also had. Sometimes I used to go with her down to the market and Panama and everything like that.

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And then she had friends down there in the market, you know, she would buy from and everything like that. So, uh, um, tell me a little bit about that about the market. I hadn't heard that much about it before. The market that your mom took you to What was that?

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Like? It was down in Panama City, right across the border and everything like that. And they would bring, uh, stuff from the interior of Panama from the farms and everything like that, and they would sell their wares there in that market. But they also had they would also sell.

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They meet and everything like that. Uh, they're too, and also fish. And so at first when we lived in Ankh on the market was not really that far away from us, I would go with my mother down there, and then she would buy from certain vendors and everything like that, uh, fish or the filet mignon or whatever she wanted.

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And, uh uh, So she so she got along with him and became, you know, friends with him and everything like that. So, uh, and the thing is, the refrigerators back in that time weren't really that didn't really hold that much. A lot of times you may be going to the market two times at least two times a week to get some of the stuff that you needed.

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So But it was a nice experience and everything like that. Okay, Um, when you were growing up, then did you feel how I guess it was an identity? What? You said you were American and Panamanian Costa Rican, Because you had this very interesting mixture of cultures while you were growing up.

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I felt comfortable in both, uh, actually, uh, Panamanian coast recon as well as American and everything like that. That sort of you sort of embrace the different cultures and everything like that. Uh And then you also embrace some of the west India because you would have the West Indian friends too, and everything like that.

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And so you learn because you also be playing involved with them sometimes and everything like that. And then you would even pick up some of the language of the accent of the low, the language and everything like that they use and the expressions they use. So it's sort of like a melting pot in some way and mhm.

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Yeah. What did you learn about West Indian culture while you were growing up? The, uh All right, I, uh I just, uh They saw things in a different way and everything like that. But I like what I liked about. It was their language and a lot of ways.

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It's, uh, the expressions that they use and everything like that, which would not be like me. You know, if you would use speaking English, everything you say in a different way and everything like that. But, uh, sometimes they had a different view way of seeing things and everything like that.

00:23:01.740 - 00:23:30.660

And, uh, it was just interesting, I think, uh, being around them and everything like that. Uh Okay. Um, so let's let's go into, um, when you started high school, what high school did you attend? I attended the Bible High school. What year did you start? High school.

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That was in 19, uh, 60 three. Because I graduated in 1967. Uh huh. So at the time the high school. That was the ninth grade through 12th grade. But a couple of years after I went to school there, they changed it from 10, 11 and 12.

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And the junior high was, uh, 78 and nine. They had changed and everything like that. Okay, so and that's because they had too many kids and they had built another school. Junior high schools. So send your first year of high school was basically the year of the riots, son.

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Yes. Uh huh. And, uh, and I was there to witness all that. What had happened? Uh, I had I was taking dancing lessons at the teen club, and I just finished that. And I started to go out the door and some guy stopped and he says, uh, the Panamanians are coming and everything like, you know, invading.

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And then he went on to say that there are going to be going to the Bible High school two put up their flag and everything like that. And then he asked me what I was going to do, and he said, Are you American or something like that?

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I said yes. But I was also thinking to antenna made, and two I was born down there. So what I did instead of taking my usual rod home because I lived and Bob Boy, I decided, Well, I'll just go down the street down the road toward the high school and see what was going on.

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So I get down there and there's some Americans in the front of the above all high school and everything like that. And, uh and they had a group of Panamanians, a large group, more Panamanians. And there were Americans there. They came down the admin building, and then the police have stopped them right across the, uh, the street from the fire station.

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They sort of kept them over there. And, uh, what they wanted to do is to put up their flag at the high school and everything like that. And, uh, the Americans were there to keep them from tearing down the American flag. And, uh so there is a like I said, there was more Panamanians, then Americans and everything like that.

00:27:10.220 - 00:27:46.960

And then they had this one. There was a policeman Canal Zone policeman that was trying to placate both groups, and his name was Alva. And he was a sergeant. But a couple months prior to that incident, he was promoted Lieutenant and he was going to each group, you know, the Americans and everything, like talking to them.

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And then he would talk to the Panamanians and everything like that and to see what they wanted to do and everything like that. What the Penta means wanted to do was go over there and raise their flag and, uh, sing their national anthem. And then they would take the flag down and go.

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And and he also talked to the Americans everything like that and told them that, you know, he didn't want any trouble and he wouldn't allow them to do that. I mean to do that. And he didn't want to have any problems and everything like that. So I had the police Alvis.

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I overheard him telling a couple other people that and that they had they had called in a lot of the other police to come in to the police dash and and put on there, right. You're just in case something happened that they would be able to react to it and everything like that preparation.

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But, uh but I was also told the Panamanians, and if anything was to happen and everything like that, that they wouldn't be, You know, if they were arrested and everything like that, they would be taken to the penitentiary, which was, uh, the Canal Zone penitentiary is about 20 miles away in the town side of Gamble, right outside a gamble, and they would be locked up there instead of because there's too many and they didn't have enough facilities at the police station if something was to happen.

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So the Panamanians didn't really want that. And like I said, he was going between the two to try to appease both groups and everything like that. So he allowed the Panamanians go over there with their flag and everything like that, and they went to the front of the Rabo High School and they raised their flag.

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And then they sang their, uh, their anthem, the national anthem. And then it was getting dark, is getting close to six o'clock, and then they brought their flag down. And so the group of Panamanian service of a devil and, uh, they grabbed the flag on each corner and on the four corners and then they had to on the side.

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So there is a total of six people carrying the flag, and they had to other people that were leading them and they walked around toward the old flagpole is they had bushes and stuff and they had to go around now to go over to or the Panamanians.

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The other group of Panamanians were waiting for him across the street from the fire station while I was there making a curve, the guy on the left hand side on the back corner of the flat holding the flag. He was looking over his shoulders because Americans are sort of fallen to see what they're going to do.

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And you could see the guy was scared. But, you know, they were brave, but they were scared, you know, the guys carrying the flag because they didn't know what was going to happen. But he's looking over his shoulder and a trip, and he fell. And when he fell, he dropped the flag.

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And then the guy that was carrying the flag in the middle uh huh, turn around and look and saw that his friend is falling and I was ready to go over to help the guy that fell. But that guy that turned around and saw that his friend has fallen and went over there and help them back up.

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And then they grab the flag again on the corner, and then they headed over to the group of Panamanians. Uh, we're waiting for him and everything like that they're talking to once they got there, have a group with fly. They started talking to the group and everything like that for about five minutes and everything like that.

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And then half of the group, uh, started running to the administration building, which sits up on a hill and they went up the stairs and everything like that start to head back to Panama City and then he had the other group. Uh uh. Open to me is starting to walk up the stairs and everything like that, and on their way back to Panama City, which was probably a couple miles from there on the way back, they went up around the administration building up toward Quarry Heights, which was a military base.

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And then the governor's house was on the left hand side when they went up that way, all along that road and everything they broke lights the the lamp, post the lights on that They also hit cars with rock. And, uh, they threw some rocks at the governor's house on the way by that.

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And then when they were going by an area that they call the fish bowl, which was a small, uh, mhm. They had maybe about four or five houses and everything like that were the FAA people, uh, we're living in that We're working down there. Uh, they vandalise a couple of their cars and broke a couple windows.

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And then from the fish ball, the road drops down and goes through the Gorgas Hospital complex. And when they went down that way, they broke a lot of windows in the hospital Connell plaques. And once I got down past the hospital, they they also broke windows and everything and the Treasury building.

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And then, uh, one small group of people was trying to break into the ST Luke's Church, which is right down next to the the border with Panama City, and one of the Panamanians stopped him and told him that, uh, you know, that's God's house, and we don't have any issues with God.

00:35:41.630 - 00:36:11.960

And then he went on to tell the guys He says, the people that are trying to break. And he says that that when he was younger and the kids in the neighborhood that lived in that neighborhood and down there in Panama City, we're hungry and everything like that didn't have anything to eat, they would come over to the church and they had, like, a kitchen in the back and a ST Luke's Church and everything like that used to feed them.

00:36:12.730 - 00:36:42.550

So that guy was able to stop. The kind of man has been doing any damage or breaking into the ST Louis. And then the group crossed the 4th July Avenue, which was the border of the Canal Zone with Panama City, and, uh, they started analyzing a couple of stores that were on the border.

00:36:43.730 - 00:37:20.950

And then the following morning. That's when the riots really started. The university students and everything like that got into it, and they had a, uh for about one week. They're fighting. They're on the Fourth of July Avenue, which later on the panel means called the Martyr Avenue, because some Panamanian or killed, uh, during the rights there on the border there.

00:37:22.530 - 00:37:50.050

But But I remember also that in the building that I lived in a barn of a street fair in Balboa, which is close to the elementary school and high school. It was a four family building, but three other families that live there, uh, their fathers were all policemen.

00:37:51.630 - 00:38:20.750

And I remember one of the policemen his name was Jesse or something like that. The second day of the riots and everything like that. He was down here on the border and he got hit with a brick in his chest. And when he would come home at night and everything like that, he was slumped over, and you could see that he was in a lot of pain.

00:38:21.520 - 00:38:47.250

And that's one of the things I remembered and everything like that. And in the morning at seven o'clock and everything like that, he was headed back to work, to go down to the border and everything like that. Uh uh, fighting, You know, the Panamanian is there and everything like us with tear gas and everything like that.

00:38:48.520 - 00:39:13.530

At seven o'clock when it was dark and everything, it seems like they would only write during the day and then go home in the evening. And they did that for almost a week. Uh, so it was they did and eventually calling the military to have the canal zone police during those rise.

00:39:15.320 - 00:39:39.270

So, wow, Uh um, what were your opinions on? You know, and I guess the the principal issue about Americans wanting to have the flag in front of the highest school Panamanians while I'm their flag and the issues of sovereignty with the canal. What were your thoughts on that at that time?

00:39:39.270 - 00:40:28.140

As a, uh, I could understand the issue, but I think politically they weren't ready. And I think that's what the U. S. I think I was thinking to at the time they had as a whole, they had mature that much because a lot of a, uh, the Panamanian government for a long time, it was more like an oligarchy were The influential Panamanians were the one that we're governing and had everything.

00:40:28.810 - 00:41:03.430

And the Panamanians themselves didn't really have very much voice and what was happening and everything like that. Uh, I think the I think the Americans felt that they weren't ready for it and everything like that. And to me. Also, the Americans thought it would be easier to deal with, uh, the oligarchy because there's less.

00:41:03.430 - 00:41:39.030

Asshole. A lot of them have gone to the States and went to school in states and everything like that. And so But the Panamanians themselves weren't really, uh, getting a good deal or anything like that. They the majority of the Panamanian is it was the society, and everything like that was more toward the oligarchy and everything like that.

00:41:40.210 - 00:42:18.320

Uh, so I don't think that they were really ready for it. I mean, and the canal is being run mostly by Americans anyway. And it was later on after the riots that they started training more Panamanians, uh, to take over and everything like that. And, uh uh, and they started hiring more Panamanians and everything like that and to get them into the so that eventually they could take over.

00:42:18.900 - 00:42:43.390

Uh, but, um, all those riots were going on. Were you scared at all? Because, you know, you were about 14 when all of that was going on. Yeah. No, it's It didn't really bother me that much. I sort of felt secure because we had all those military bases around there.

00:42:43.390 - 00:43:20.150

Something was to happen and everything like that. Uh, I didn't really feel that, uh, I didn't feel threatened or anything like that. It was inconvenience. In some ways, uh, you know, you couldn't go down into Panama City during that time and everything like that. And, uh, So, um, what did your parents say about all of this?

00:43:20.160 - 00:43:45.290

I got home. What? Did you remember them speaking their mind on what was going on? Well, I think that they could understand the situation with, you know, the Panamanians and everything like that, You know, that they wanted, uh, uh, being more part of the the canal.

00:43:45.300 - 00:44:15.610

And, uh, they have more responsibility and work there and everything like that they could understand. And, uh, I think, but, uh, but they didn't really say that much about it. Yeah, So tell me then about the rest of your high school career because you still had three years in high school after that, right?

00:44:16.090 - 00:44:43.670

Yeah, It was a good experience. Uh, I enjoyed going to school and everything like that and being with friends and everything like that. And it was a very positive experience. And after I graduated and everything like that, I went to the Canal Zone College there for one year.

00:44:43.680 - 00:45:14.210

Uh, and then right after that, my dad retired. Uh, he had cancer, and he got a medical retirement. We went to the States, and, uh, he only lasted probably about a year and a half after that, where he passed away. Cancer had killed him. And that was 1969 when he passed away.

00:45:16.090 - 00:45:58.240

I'm sorry. And we went up to Virginia to live there. Okay. And what was it like for you transitioning to living in Virginia to the United States with all that was going on in your life and also having come from a different country? It was a different and in a lot of ways, because then in the canal Zone, and you felt secure, a lot of things that taken care of you didn't have to worry about different things because they would there in his own and everything like that.

00:45:58.250 - 00:46:30.130

You know, they would, uh, cut the grass manicure that was done by people that worked for the company. And, uh um, you have to do more for yourself in the States and everything like that. Because when you were in Panama, you could hire people, people would have maids or they would high are gardeners and everything like that and do some of the work around the house.

00:46:30.130 - 00:47:03.060

So, uh, in the states, you have to be more independent and do things for yourself. Whereas in Panama you could depend on other people to do things for you and everything like that. Uh, you know, you pay for those services and everything like that, but up in the States, uh, he really couldn't afford, uh to do in a lab.

00:47:03.070 - 00:47:32.600

And you're living on a retirement income to which was less than what you're living in Panama. So it was just a different lifestyle. Uh, you had to do more for yourself in the states. Uh, just, uh, learning and a growing experience. Uh, you know, the transition and everything like that.

00:47:34.080 - 00:48:01.620

It was just different. How was it, like for your mom to transition? Mhm. Uh, I think that it was hard in one way because my dad was sick and everything like that. And then after he passed away, I think she felt the burden was placed on her and everything like that.

00:48:01.620 - 00:48:43.080

And, uh uh, it was a little bit hard for her and then getting used to a different lifestyle here in the States, and and she didn't have her family around or anything like that. And so just us and everything like that, the Children. But, uh, it was just a different, uh, different experience after coming to the States.

00:48:44.070 - 00:49:16.890

But she later on, she ended up working as an aide at the hospital and everything like that. And she enjoyed that, like a nurse's aide. And she enjoyed that and meeting some of the patients and all that. And, uh, she said that was a growing experience, a learning experience for her, and she really enjoyed it.

00:49:16.900 - 00:49:45.430

Also got her out of the house and doing something different. So uh huh um, did you continue your studies while you were in Virginia? I, uh I want to, uh, a year of college there and everything like that. And then, uh, I got, uh, for the draft.

00:49:45.430 - 00:50:19.980

I got call in to take my physical, and I took the physical and passed, and I was waiting to be called The Vietnam War was going on at the time, and I was waiting to be called. But then they changed the law and they went into a lottery system and it was retroactive six months or or something like that and my number, my lottery number was to 38.

00:50:20.960 - 00:50:52.280

So that put me down way down the list of even selected. So after I got the notification, that was 2. 38. What I started doing is I started looking for a job with the federal government, and at the time, uh, they're looking for sky marshals, and I applied for that.

00:50:52.280 - 00:51:53.890

And I got a job, uh, with the sky marshal, Uh, and I worked out of Washington, D. C. And, uh, I was flying domestically sometimes. But most of the time I was flying international over to London. Uh, Germany and Ireland. Uh, when I was on a flight going back and forth and then I would take special flights within the States for some of the Cabinet members, uh, that were working at the White House to provide security for them, And that was during the Nixon administration.

00:51:55.260 - 00:52:27.210

So I was doing and I did that for about 3.5 years or something like that, or four years between, I think 3.5 for four years. And then they decided that to abolish the Sky Marshal program and just have it on certain flights. They said it would be better to stop on the ground.

00:52:27.220 - 00:52:51.980

They have more security at the airports and all that at the ground. And so what I did then is I applied for a job down in Panama, in the canals A. And I got hired down there as a customs, immigration and deputy shipping commissioner job with the canal.

00:52:53.050 - 00:53:30.770

And I did that for three or four years, and I went into an apprenticeship program for towboat, Captain. And that was a five year program. Became a towboat captain. That's what I retired. As for the Panama Canal Commission, so and I retired back and at the end of 1998 that's when I retired.

00:53:32.250 - 00:54:02.010

Wow. So you you were there while the canal is being transitioned over to the Panamanians. Yes, and I helped train the, uh, a lot of Americans. I mean, a lot of Panamanians because I was in a also, uh, during the time as a towboat, Captain. For about two years, I was in a towboat training office.

00:54:02.020 - 00:54:35.760

Uh, and I was training there at the school. They had a towboat training program and I was working with Captain Bailey and then for a couple of years, I was after he left. I was working up there, Uh uh, providing training to the Panamanians that we're going to be taking over the program.

00:54:36.340 - 00:55:01.560

Uh huh. So, uh, yeah, I was there during the transition and everything like that. Part of the training of the Panamanians and everything like that. Um, So, um, when you as you were training the Panamanians and you retire in 98 did you feel that they were ready to take over the canal?

00:55:06.640 - 00:55:27.860

Hello? Hello? Yes. Did you hear me? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello. I can hear you. Okay. What were you going to say? I was asking while you were training Panamanians to run the canal. Did you feel you know when 1999 came That they were prepared to run it?

00:55:29.140 - 00:56:08.050

Yeah. Uh, no. I felt that there are, uh, capable and everything like that. Delinda Canal. Uh, I think it's There was some, uh some Americans wanted to come across while they couldn't run the canal or anything like that. But, uh, they're human beings and everything like that, And, uh, they're intelligent and everything like that and working with them and everything like that.

00:56:08.060 - 00:56:30.950

You know, they, uh, uh, you know, they knew their stuff and everything. I had no qualms that, uh, about them not being able to do the job and everything like, uh, you know, I felt that they could, uh, do it. And some some were really good and everything like that what they did.

00:56:30.960 - 00:56:56.460

So, um, I didn't have those feelings. Uh, but they wouldn't be able to do it. Uh, you know, they put their mind to it and everything like time they can do it. My my feelings. Um what did it feel like, though, for you personally, when you had to retire and leave Panama, the place that had been your home for so long?

00:56:58.930 - 00:57:22.540

I know it's gonna be, uh, a different lifestyle and will be a different change. But I sort of got that failing when I left when my dad came to the States and I lived up there in the state so I had some idea what the States was going to be like.

00:57:23.830 - 00:58:08.030

And so, uh, I knew that it was going to be different, everything like that, and that I would adjust just like I did when I left back in 1968 the first time. So, um, did you have a family at that point? Yes. Uh, I, uh it was after I came to the States as probably to my family was in the States at the time.

00:58:08.040 - 00:58:50.450

They come to the States when they were having trouble there in Panama. Uh, and they were living in the States, and my wife at the time was home schooling them. And then later on, uh, they went to, uh, college there, and I had two sons and a daughter, and then the stunt daughter was already in the States, and, uh, she was married and had 11 child.

00:58:51.520 - 00:59:23.450

So, uh, but uh huh, my kids were young and everything, like, you know, their home school there for a while in Panama and then home school a little bit in the state. And then from there they went right into the college and everything like that. The college accepted a and so, uh uh.

00:59:24.720 - 01:00:00.520

So, um, what were your thoughts on the Noriega invasion? I mean, what the American invasion to Alice Noriega's? You were there during that? Yes. Well, uh, I was glad that they're finally doing something because something had to be done and everything like that. I had I had gotten word front through a source and everything like that.

01:00:02.310 - 01:00:48.390

The from a Panamanian from the Noriega was planning to take hostages. You know, uh, and he had a list of certain people there in the canal zone that he was going to take hostage if something was to happen and everything like that. And I was at the time I was involved with the Prior to that I was involved with the Resident Advisory Committee for the town side of Gamboa and then from Gamble, I moved to Los Rios.

01:00:48.390 - 01:01:22.230

But I still stayed and in touch with the community to see what was going on. But I found out that if something was going to happen, Noriega was going to take, uh, certain people in the higher positions and other people in the canal area as his hostages and everything like that So I let the administration now, uh, McAuliffe and in there this is going to happen.

01:01:23.910 - 01:02:02.730

And so the CIA later on your investigator or through their sources and everything like that, they confirm that they're going to do it. And then one day I got called a to go down to the neighbor's house and he was a pilot. But he, uh, was also, uh, in a the Navy, a Navy reserve and everything like that.

01:02:02.740 - 01:02:28.260

And, uh, he was intelligence officer or something like that, and mhm. So they called me out to ask me to go down to his house, which was just down the street and sort of around the corner. And I want to, uh, he said, Just go down there and act like you're just coming to visit me or something.

01:02:28.260 - 01:02:55.220

When I got there, there was a CIA that they're in the house with him and he was questioning and different things, and he said that they had checked and sure enough, where I told me where they could get the information and everything like that, uh, that Noriega was going to take those hostages and everything like that.

01:02:56.400 - 01:03:44.430

And so, uh, with prior to that, everything like that. I had sent my family because Noriega and then we're harassing the people down there. And, uh, my wife was in a the grocery store and she was trying to to find some clothes for, uh, my daughter, the oldest stepdaughter that came in the night before And what had happened the night before when I went out to Tacoma Airport to pick up my step daughter.

01:03:45.400 - 01:04:08.620

Well, when the plane landed, the landing gear collapse, it, like, crashed and went down the runway and it was thrown. I could. I was looking out toward the runway, and I see this plane coming out, throwing all these sparks coming up. It's on, it's one side and then it stops.

01:04:08.620 - 01:04:32.420

And then they had the chutes come out. And then my stop daughter came out of that go down the chute. But since the the shoot went down and it didn't go all the way down to the ground, it was about 6 ft off the ground because the way the plane was tilt to raise that part of.

01:04:33.190 - 01:04:57.310

So when she came down, she fell data, and the next person that came down fell on top of her, and they had to run well anyway. The baggage to get to the baggage was right where the plane had gone on the ground. They couldn't get to the baggage hold to get people's baggage out.

01:04:58.490 - 01:05:17.220

So when until the next day that I, uh it was two days afterwards, like I went out to the airport and they finally was able to get her back. But she was. The only thing she had on was what she came in. And that was a white dress.

01:05:19.590 - 01:05:45.870

And she was at the drugstore and everything like that with my wife on Sunday to try to buy some clothes. And there is a another colonel or high ranking. A military officer with the Panamanian defense forces started yelling at my wife and yelling at my daughter.

01:05:45.880 - 01:06:17.180

She had this white dress on. And what the C the least does? War as a thing was to wear white that they indicated they were against Noriega and stuff like that, and Rachel, my daughter didn't know anything about that. And yet this guys raising hell with her and my wife and everything like that.

01:06:17.190 - 01:06:49.200

She was wearing the white as like she was part of the civil ista and everything like that. And, uh, so it was just a bad experience and everything like that For what? Uh, but eventually, I relocated my wife to the States and everything like that during the situation there, and I stayed working here in Padua.

01:06:50.580 - 01:07:20.910

And so uh huh Uh, but that part was an awful experience. Uh huh. And then finally, they invaded Panama. The U S. Invaded Panama took Noriega, which was a good thing. So Well, I don't have them anymore. Questions last, Mr Whitney, I'm just a couple of more, and you kind of wrap it up.

01:07:21.280 - 01:07:59.260

Um, I wanted to ask, um what? What would you say so special about the zone community and the legacy that you have all left in Panama. I think it's a the friendship, I guess, with the Panamanians and the Americans down there that the relationships that we had and everything like that were We're good and everything like that and, you know, the culture made.

01:07:59.260 - 01:08:27.190

And the thing is, I think that we sort of absorbed each other's called culture, and I learned to respect that. And that's what I take away from, uh, experience down here in Panama That that we learned about each other and everything like that. And it was just an overall good experience.

01:08:27.870 - 01:08:58.520

Mhm. Um, so I Matt, it was your cousin at the reunion. Do you both attend those reunions A lot? Yes. What, like, what's so special that you keep going back to those reunions to try. And I think it's to see the friends and everything like that and then also the embrace some of the Panamanian culture because, you know, they have the dances and everything there and Isla.

01:08:58.520 - 01:09:22.790

And most of it is the Panamanian music and everything like that. Because down there in Panama and everything like that you would get during the carnival that they had every year, people would Americans would would get into that, too. And everything like that. We we learn from each other's culture.

01:09:23.270 - 01:10:01.190

Okay, um, and then my last question is, if you could use one word to describe your experience living in the zone, what word would it be? The It is just, uh, an enjoyable experience. That's, uh uh huh. Just special. Just special in every way. Uh, mhm.

01:10:01.760 - 01:10:18.980

Uh huh. Mm. Well, you know, when we finish these interviews, you actually get a copy of them. So I don't know if there's something that you would like to add about your experience living in the zone or just the overall message about life that you would want maybe your kids to to hear?

01:10:20.660 - 01:10:45.880

Uh, no, it's just a good experience and everything like that. And I wish other people could have experienced the same thing that we did. Uh, we had a sense of security there. Didn't really have to worry about too much or anything like that, because people looked out for you.

01:10:46.760 - 01:11:25.240

Uh, both Panamanian and America, and everything like that is just and overall nice place for for your Children to grow up to a very secure and, uh And then you learn about the different cultures and everything like that, just not only the American and the Latin culture and everything, but she also has these other cultures that were passing through the canal and everything like that that you learned from two.

01:11:25.260 - 01:11:48.370

So it was just, uh and overall good experience in that in that respect. Okay. Well, Mr Whitney, I don't have any further questions I don't know if there's perhaps something that, um, we didn't cover that you would like to add. Now at the end, I can't think of anything right now.

01:11:48.760 - 01:12:11.070

Uh uh. And anyway, I enjoyed the interview and everything. Like, I hope it's helpful for anybody. It's really great. I'm gonna close up the interview, but don't hang up. Okay? I'm going to close out the interview, but just don't don't hang up, OK? Okay. Um and this concludes this interview.