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Okay. Good morning. My name is chance to say Today is July 2nd 2015 here on behalf of the semi proctor or history program interviewing Mr Ed English at English by his recollections of the Panama Canal Zone. Thank you so much for being home here with us today.

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You could start by telling us when and where were you born? I was born in New York City in 1940 to 1942 on DSO. Can you tell us a little bit about your parents? What did they do for a living? And why were there in in New York?

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Um, my mother lived in New York, and she was the daughter of a German immigrant. And the German immigrant I understand. Came to the United States when he was three years old. With his parents and my father. Uh huh. It's family. Originally immigrated from Ireland. English happiness to be an Irish name on They settled in Richmond, Virginia.

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Initially. Uhh. After that, my father's father moved to New York City, where he became a New York City policemen. In the tradition of the Irishman, it seems, um and so then I was born in the Bronx, actually, which is, uh, one of the boroughs of I lived there.

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New York. Oh, yeah. Let me tell this time. Um, So what did your parents do for a living? My father worked for the Metropolitan Metropolitan Life Insurance Company in lower Manhattan. And he was actuary. Uh, he's Those are the people who I believe figure out the rates to be charged.

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My mother was a homemaker on, and she did later in life. Goto work for Gimbels department store after we moved to New Jersey. I've heard that she managed She was the night evening manager for the A photography department. Camera department. Okay. Eso Did you grow up then?

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In New York? Yes. I started out in Bronx, New York, And then when? When I was in junior high school, way moved to New Jersey. My father and mother decided that we needed to have some grass and trees. Okay, Eso What can you tell me about your childhood?

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Do you have any particular childhood memories that stand out to you? Um, I don't believe I had any traumatic experiences growing up. That's really stick in my in my in my memory. I you know I remember as a child, um, growing up in the Bronx Total freedom Thio go out on my own.

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And back in those days, parents didn't worry about their Children roaming around coming, coming home later in the day for supper. And it was the same when we moved to New Jersey. No, I had a very I think I had a very nice childhood, but I was one of four Children, the oldest, and my parents worked hard.

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Yeah. No, no. Lots of pleasant memories. Well, um, stairs. I mean, memories don't have to be traumatic that a very special memory that you might have. But you're special memory. Yes, but your siblings with your parents in school I remember it's funny the things that stick in your memory.

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I remember in kindergarten in the Bronx, I went thio ST Helena's parochial school and in kindergarten, there was a child Children's skit, and we dressed up as angels and we sang a little song. Andi, uh, I remember seeing pictures with me with my short pants on my big wings on S O that that's a memory that that's a memory that sticks in my brain.

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Um, e I loved playing after we moved to New Jersey. I loved playing in the Little League. I was on Ah, lot of baseball games, and that's your favorite baseball team. I was a New York Yankees fan coming from the Bronx. I'm a Mets fan. The Mets are good, too.

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And my cousin, I had cousins in Brooklyn on. They were Mets fans when because the Brooklyn Dodgers had moved to out to California. Yeah, I'm reading about that. Um, okay, so what year did you graduate high school in? 1959 1959. So what were your impressions of the world at that time?

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Like what do you remember thinking about as you for their graduating high school and preparing to enter the world? That was an extremely peaceful time. It was World War two. Hadn't been over for too many years. I was born February 6, 1942 which was just two months after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and I don't remember much about it.

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I remember my mother taking me out into the streets the day that the war was over with Germany and people were celebrating in the streets and that that was a memory that sticks in my mind. Um, but back to back to high school. I don't think I thought much about world affairs.

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Uh, it was just a great Ridgewood. New Jersey was where I graduated from high school, and it was just a very a wonderful time. I did work. I started working when I was 11 years old. I had my first paper route on, uh, I had a job, uh, until I was a a senior in college.

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I worked all through college. I lived at home community to school because that's the only way we could afford to do it. What college did you go to ST Peter's College in Jersey City, New Jersey. So I did not straight very far from the greater New York City area until ah, graduated from college.

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Okay, So what was your degree when you graduated from college? I had a bachelor of science in accounting, Ally, but my the favorite thing that I did in college was Army ROTC. Really? Okay. And I was a cadet battalion commander. And because I I have really enjoyed it.

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I did Well, I graduated as as the top cadet in my class and received the Superior Cadet Award. But because of that, I got a A commission in the regular army. Usually students coming out of our ROTC get reserved commissions. They're called. I have received a regular army commission similar to what a student coming out of West Point received.

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Okay. And so that started me on my army career. So that was what you did after you graduate. It's the army. Okay. I went into the Army. Okay. So can you talk a little bit about that? About what happened those first couple of years after you graduated college, the I went into the infantry and did all of my basic training basic officer training at for Benning, Georgia.

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And while I was there for bending and I also went thio airborne school to be a paratrooper, And then I went thio Army Ranger school to be an Army ranger. Um, after that, in January of 1964 I reported to the Panama Canal Zone. Okay, so that's when you get to Panama.

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What was your first assignment when you arrived to the Panama Canal Zone? Um, I would like to start by giving my first impression that Zaveri. Good. Okay, So the plane landed at what? What was called at the time Howard Air Force Base, which was just on the north side of the Bridge of America's.

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And I remember the plane door. Remember stepping out of the airplane door? You didn't step into the terminal, They roll the the stairs were on meals and they would roll them up to the side of the airplane. And I remember stepping out of the plane onto the top stare, and it was like walking into an oven.

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I had never Phil Heat quite that hot, hitting me in the face like that. And it was kind of welcome to Panama. Holy smokes. I had my choice of assignments because of the status that I graduated and I had a choice of assignments. I could have gone anywhere.

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I was looking for a place that had sand and palm trees. E. And I thought Panama might be such a place. I didn't realize how hot it would be, but I found out later, of course, that you do a claim it and, you know, and for a while it didn't.

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It wasn't a big deal anymore. And So we I got down to the bottom of the stairs and there was a jeep waiting for May. And just like in the movies, we through my bags in the back of the jeep. It was an open jeep, and we drove off down through the row of palm trees and back across the Bridge of America is over to Fort Clayton, where I was stationed.

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So you arrived right in the midst of the riot. I That's when I arrived. Exactly. Okay, So can you tell me a little bit about that e? You know, I was a second lieutenant. Second lieutenants. I don't usually have, uh, much appreciation for the big picture, if you will.

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So I was a platoon leader in a what's called a mechanized infantry platoon and show the riots happened on, of course, up in the area of the Tivoli Hotel. And so forth is where all of the action was going on. I was never up, if you will, up in the area where any shooting was going on.

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Um, but my platoon, actually, my entire company, uh, way they moved us out of Fort Clayton with all of our armored personnel carriers and we rolled on down into Balboa to peer. It's pure. It's either pure eight or pure 18. I think it's pure 18, and we were actually give wacked on the pier for weeks.

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Um, in case the riots started again, if you will. And but fortunately, after after the initial excitement, things started to calm down. And so I didn't have to get directly involved, so I was happy that we didn't have to get directly involved. But I mean, do you remember?

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I guess because you're coming in out of town was very intense emotions that people in the zone feel One way the Panamanian citizens feel one way, like where those starts voice to you like, What was your reaction kind of coming into the middle of of discharge environment.

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In a way, um, when I came into the middle of the charged environment, I had not familiarized myself with the history of Panama or the Panama canals. I didn't learn about the history until later until I got there. So initially it was just in my mind just a big question.

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Mark, Um, I didn't understand. I didn't understand until later how Panamanians could feel so strongly about it. And I didn't understand until later how the Americans who were there could feel so strongly. I understood. Yes, the United States built the canal, and I could understand why the Americans who worked for the Panama Canal Company felt so strongly.

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Um, but it wasn't until it wasn't until years later, until I was older. Until you get until you get wiser, I think you get wiser as you get older. And then you can understand both sides. White people on both sides felt the way they did. But in those days, a second lieutenant, um, you just kind of did what your captain told you to do.

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You didn't think too much about it. Um, you know, since then, I thought a lot about it. Okay, So what? Thinking about it since then. Like, what are your opinions on it now? Of what happened? Yeah. Yeah, Well, in hindsight, I think it was a wonderful thing that the United States did.

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I think Onley the United States could have built the Panama Canal. They were the only in the French had failed. Oh, and it was actually, uh, Army officers who were in charge of things. Initially, there had been civilian chief engineer of the canal building the canal.

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Both of them quit. And so then President Roosevelt appointed an Army Colonel asi chief engineer who couldn't quit on. Then It was an Army doctor who solved the the yellow fever problem. And it was another Army colonel who was in charge of breaking through the Continental divide so that the canal could be built.

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And so there's a real strong army army influence there. Um, I think what the United States did was wonderful for the world. And, uh so what? In two in 2014, just last year, we celebrated the 100th anniversary of the opening of the canal. And and so I think the United States has a lot to be proud of, not only in the building of it, but in the way that it waas It served the world.

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I also of our strong opinion that it was the canal and it was the U. S. Efforts in that part of the world that provided an environment where Panamanians could, over the years, build themselves up, build their country up, create the modern, uh, great country, the modern country that it is today.

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Um, I think that Panamanians, the Penha, means who are alive today. I don't think they appreciate the efforts. And the money's on that went into the building of the canal and the running of the canal, the jobs that were provided to the Panamanians. I am very proud of the way the United States decided that.

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Okay, if we're going to turn the canal over to Panama, we need to train the men and women who will be operating it and maintaining it. And the United States took great effort to conduct that training. And then, on the other hand, the Panamanians worked very hard to absorb the training.

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And so the two sides really came together beautifully there. I thought, um, the net result of it all was that today Panamanian is doing a great job running the canal and maintaining the canal. And I think it all goes back to that 20 year training period that both sides took it very seriously.

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And so we have a a great result of it today. Okay, So how long were you stationed in Panama For? Almost three years. Three years. Okay, So what was your job while you were there. What did you dio eso the first? Initially, I was a platoon leader in this mechanized infantry platoon, uh, which was stationed at Fort Clayton.

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And and then later I reverted. I was an infantry officer then. Then I became a Transportation Corps officer, and I was reassigned to Fort Davis on the Atlantic side of the canal, and my, my my was commanding a truck company there on way had many missions.

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One of them was to support the Jungle Operations Warfare Center at Fort Sherman. And also, there was an infantry battalion at Fort Davis Way supported with our trucks. We supported the country battalion at Fort Davis. And so I have, um, most military who go down there.

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They don't have the the broad experience that I do. So I spent a lot of time on the Pacific side and a lot of time on the Atlantic side. So So I know both sides pretty well, but when we were when I was stationed in for Clayton, we actually spent most of our time training in the jungle, and and also we go up the coast to a normal training area called Rio Hado.

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And that was where we could do good training with the armored personnel carriers because the land was more open down in the canal zone, you didn't have a lot of open land. You had a lot of jungle, and then you had the roadways. Eso we'd go upto hado so we could train with the armed personnel carriers.

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Okay, so you said you had this very broad experience that you knew both sides Very well. How would you compare and contrast? Um oh, well, in my day, uh, I think they were similar because Panama City. So we're talking. Gosh, we're talking over 40 years ago.

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So over 40 years ago, you didn't see the big buildings in Panama City that you see today. Uh, the fanciest place in Panama City back in those days was the Panama Hilton. Andi, that was not a big, tall building. I forget exactly how many stories it had, but it wasn't a really tall building.

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Um, in the city of Colon back in those days, uhh was a booming city. Also, it was it was not his biggest Panama city. But in my estimation, it was as nice as Panama City. Okay, Um, today, that's a totally different story. Today. Panama City has blossom, and it has become very cosmopolitan, very wealthy, and the poor city of Colon has been left to rot.

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I would say that's a strong word, but I believe the political leaders of Panama have made a decision about what to do with Kalon. And basically, it's not to spend any money on it. There is a a thriving free zone, but we have driven around Kalon Aziz recently as 2000 and the last time we their 2000 and seven, and it's really sad to see what's happened to the city.

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What do you think? The government hasn't invested in cologne as well? Well, you know, it's a good question, and I don't know the answer. Um, and it's just a shame, because it seems to me that there's enough wealth and enough educated Panamanians that they could have a second city, if you will, you know, it would not be a big Ondas well, Thea's Panama City, but it would still maybe be like I remember back in the sixties, but it's just not that way, and my hope is that someday uh, the people who run Panama will say, Hey, look, it would be good to have a first class city on the Atlantic side as well as on the Pacific end of the canal.

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You know, hopefully they would begin investing in it and bring jobs back there. Right now, the people who work on the Atlantic side, particularly in the Gattuso Gattuso locks on in that area. Most of them actually commute to work. They live in Panama City and they take the train over and they do their work during the day.

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And then and then they go back. When we were there in 2007, we met the man who runs against the Panamanian man who works for ACP on who runs the Mattoon Locks Way were fortunate enough, Thio. He invited us. Thio, come over to the control tower and we walked across the top of the of the of the locked doors and up into the control tower.

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He let us turn silver handles, which opened the gates way, actually locked through a ship called the Coral Princess. There was a tourist vessel on the ship was about from here to the door, way were standing outside the control. It was even closer than that way.

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We're talking to the people on the ship. Is that came through? It was a great experience. That's incredible. Did you take photos of that? Well, we took photos. My wife's dad had been his last job and got to, and he was a lock master on the got two blocks.

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Okay. Just look at what does the A. C P stand for? Well, those that is the and I can't pronounce it, but it's the authority of the canal. Panama. So it z Panamanian authority that runs the canal. Okay. And I don't know what the Spanish words are.

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Okay, that z 05 So we're for those three years that you were there. Did you have a lot of interaction of Panamanian citizens and the Americans on the zone? I guess the question is kind of What did you observe about the community there? You know what was what was your interpretation of it?

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Yeah, I would say I had had very little because we were. If you're in the military there, you're actually isolated from Americans in the canal zone is very little interaction between military people and the canal Zone employees. Um, in my case, it was a little different because I had a friend.

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This is when I was a for Clayton. I had a friend who had a Panamanian friend. Hmm. Because my friend in Fort Clayton he was He was a U S citizen, but he was Spanish descent, and he spoke Spanish on. I became friends with him, and I remember very clearly he invited me or he took me with him to a a party.

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Uh, that was being held in the home of a student at the university in Panama shape and, gosh, I haven't thought of this in so many years. And as as there will be in parties, there was alcoholic beverages, but there was only one alcoholic beverage, and it was champagne.

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And after a while they ran out of cold Champaign. And so then we actually put ice cubes in the glasses on record, the warm champagne on top of the ice cubes, and and it was a good party. But I remember that the Panamanian folks that I chatted with some and most of them spoke English.

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All missus. Well, Asai did, and it was obvious to me that they were, um the getting a good education. They were very, very smart, very good conversationalists. And they loved their country. And and it was I was glad I had that experience because I was able to reach the conclusion, even as this young second lieutenant, about 21 or 22 years old, that Oh, these seemed to be nice people.

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And so that was a good, uh, I was happy that I was able to have that experience and reach that conclusion because toe Lynn, I didn't know. I did see a lot of Panamanian people working in the Canal zone and even on Fort Clayton, there were a lot of Panamanian people working, but I never interacted with them.

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All I could do was observed, and I said, Boy, these hard working people, and whatever the jobs were that they did, they seem to do a good job. And so that was a positive, you know, a very positive conclusion or reaction that I had. Okay. Did you meet your wife in the zone?

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Yes. Uh huh. Um, so a gal that she knew I was dating, uh, I forget whether she was dating an Air Force officer or an Army officer. But I'm I'm 5 ft seven inches tall, which is short by particularly by today's standards, where a young young men tend to be very tall.

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But my wife is 5 ft tall. And so I guess this gal decided that we would go together well, and so she set us up on a blind date on, uh, my wife was home from college back. She's so she was back in the Canal zone.

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She just graduated from college waiting to go to graduate school the next year. And so it was a blind date and and we saw each other for a couple of weeks. She went back to school Way were actually with each other for a total of three weeks before we got married over the course of a year, a little more than a year.

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But she was back in school and I was working down in a canal PSA. But I did have a terrific experience that I wanted Thio tell you about what, Um, every year Panama had a big carnival. Yes, on, and there was I believe the groups were called for calm parses on.

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So So the the social clubs in Panama City each had their own queen. Yeah, like the Union club. Which one? That I remember and the queen had a court, and the canal zone had one queen and court. And so the members of the court, of course, needed escorts.

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And the court had one representative, one female representative from the military. Three others were three or four Others were from the canal zone from the Panama Canal Company and as was the Queen. And so I was asked to escort the female who was on the court who was representing the military side.

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And, uh, I participated in the carnival for five days, drove my red convertible in the parade in downtown Panama City with with women in their in their Pereira's sitting on the back. And then at night we would go off to the different clubs in Panama City and dance and have a couple embrace, and I'm not sure what else it was.

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Ah, wonderful time. And so that was another experience I had getting to know Panamanian people. Of course, the Panama people I was getting to know in that experience tended to be from the more wealthy side of the population. Okay. All right. Eso Even though there was a big national event, you went more of the wealthier people in the community.

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Yeah. Okay. Um and so your wife, he said you were with her three weeks, and then you just corresponded by letter correspondent. Okay, I would try to get her not to call me because telephone calls were so expensive, you know, before Skype phones and all that stuff.

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So So But periodically she would call me and then talk me into paying for half the phone call. Yeah, and I was only making $222 a month. So that's the pay of a second lieutenant back in those days. Okay, so, you know, so, paying for half the phone call it was painful, but, you know, it turned out well, I'm very happy we're going in August.

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We'll be married for 50 years. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. That zest so beautiful. We have three sons, three sons. The eldest is an army colonel. Wow. That's so when I retired from the army, I was an army colonel. That z just incredible. E I joked with people.

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I say he went into the family business, and he's made his father proud. Eso your wife's family is from the zone. My wife's family is from Norfolk, Virginia, during the Great Depression. Hey was her dad was a machinist and could not find steady work in the United States.

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So and I had the paper that the Panama Canal Company was hiring machinists and they thought they just stay for a couple of years until the depressed Great Depression was over but apparently liked it so much they decided to stay, so they were there for 30 plus years.

00:36:26.030 - 00:37:02.190

My I never met my father in law. Unfortunately, he he passed away during the riots in 1964. Had nothing to do with the riots, had to do with believe it was something like a brain aneurysm. But my mother in law tells the story about the difficulty of transporting his body through Panama City Act Kumin airport so that his body could be transported back to United States.

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In other words, they had toe. They couldn't just drive the normal route. The driver of the vehicle taken the body out to the airplane, knew how to go back routes and so forth so that whatever was going on in the city didn't affect transporting him back to the States.

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Okay. And then, you know, what did you learn about the zone? Community life from meeting your wife's family Assistance says they've been there for a while. There's anything that you any insight that you gained. Um, I should mention also that after we got married and I went and we so we were single there together in the canal zone.

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Then she went off to school. After we got married, Way came back to the canal zone where she came back to Canal Zone. I, of course, was still there. And she became a teacher for the canal zone school system. Okay, while I was in the Army.

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Okay. Um, and then those three years that you were there, there's 64 do their toe 67 66 actually, 66. Okay, so the United States and the Bahamian government were negotiating a lot with treaties back and forth. Well, what's gonna happen with the zone? Do you remember?

00:38:26.260 - 00:38:56.530

And do you have any impressions of that? What was going on? I have absolutely no memory of control. Okay? Of course I know that it was It was Jimmy Carter who was president of the time And who, uh, and I know that the treaty, uh, only passed by one vote in the United States sent.

00:38:56.780 - 00:39:43.540

So it was a very close vote. I would say today that in hindsight, um, I think the United States did the smart thing. Um, and I think that, as I mentioned earlier, that the Panamanians have proven themselves totally capable of doing the job s So I think, in the big picture, um, it's always easier to look at history, you know, looking back to see Well, was that a good move or not?

00:39:43.540 - 00:40:08.140

A good move you don't want it turned out that it was the thing to do at the time, because I don't think the United States one of the things the United States I think prides itself on is, um it was not historically a colonial power similar to the European nations.

00:40:08.970 - 00:40:36.060

Of course, you know I have the US does have possessions like Guam and so forth on For a while, the Philippines were kind of under our wing also, but but No, I think I think history will prove that it was the right thing to do. And and, of course, there's a lot of excitement.

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Now a za Panama builds the third, the third set of locks? Yes, on a Z A in order to compete on the world market on and you know, So hopefully they're spending a lot of money on that over $6 billion you know, So hopefully it will go very well for them.

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Okay. I wanted to ask Why did you end up believing Panama Judas Station somewhere else? That was my first assignment after I came out of college in the ROTC program. And then your second assignment was where I went to Vietnam from there. Okay, so you and your wife stayed in Panama.

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My wife, she could have She could have stayed in Panama. We thought about that. But when when our tour is over way are very adventurous. The two of us way decided to drive back to the United States. So we drove from Panama back to Virginia. That's right in that in that red convertible, but a lot of miles on it.

00:41:51.120 - 00:42:15.870

But those were the days I would have to say Central America was a more peaceful place. Yeah. Then it is today. I would not drive from Panama to Virginia today. E would be concerned. Um, not about Panama not driving through Panama, not driving through Costa Rica.

00:42:15.880 - 00:42:42.220

I wouldn't be concerned. But as I continued north into into Guatemala and Costa Rica on that Costa Rica, El Salvador, and even in southern Mexico, Um, I'd be very concerned with folks who are involved with the drug trade and so forth. Okay, Eso you and your wife went to work in Virginia.

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And how long were you in Vietnam for? For that. During that tour. I was there for one year. Then I came back to the United States to Virginia, actually to a fort called for use, just uhh. Which is 15 minutes from where we live now. But then I went back to Vietnam again for a second for a second for two years.

00:43:03.390 - 00:43:26.550

So most people didn't spend most. Most soldiers spent one year in Vietnam, so I was there for two years. Do you want to talk about your time in Vietnam at all? Um, the only thing I would say is that I didn't like being there, but I was a soldier.

00:43:26.550 - 00:43:53.980

And so you do your do your duty, so to speak. And again, through hindsight being so perfect. Uh, United States, in my humble opinion, made a big mistake. Um, going into Vietnam and history, I think, proves me correct. On while I'm at it, we made a huge mistake going into Iraq.

00:43:54.290 - 00:44:18.850

And history proves me correct again. Yes, it does. Yeah, but I spent 30 years in the Army in my last. Like I said, I retired as a colonel in my last job. I was the post commander of an Army base called Fort Story in Virginia, which was at the northern end of Virginia Beach.

00:44:19.170 - 00:45:07.380

Okay. All right. So what year was that? When you're retired in 90 93. Okay, so I started in 60. I went into the army in 63 got to Panama in January 64 and then 30 years later, okay? Traveled in, uh, besides Panama and and two years in Vietnam was stationed in, uh, two years in Korea, and I would see the army port commander in Pusan, Korea, and, uh, talking about a second city like I was hoping Panama would rebuild Kalon someday.

00:45:07.390 - 00:45:26.710

That's in Korea. Seoul is the capital city, and it's the major city on. It's a booming city. But then push gone back in our day, we pronounce it. Push on with a P. The Koreans now have changed that to more of a B sound, so it's more loose on.

00:45:27.290 - 00:45:47.380

But it is their second city, and it's a big, wealthy city, also not his biggest soul. So that s Oh, I have that experience with a top and then a second city. And that's why I hope that someday Panama would turn that around. Okay. Um, how many times have you gone back to visit Panama Since you left?

00:45:47.390 - 00:46:20.500

Often, we've been at this point, I've been back twice. Okay, We're planning to go again as soon as the third locks are complete. We took our three sons there when they were young, and they have some memories of it. Okay, um, on then my wife and I went back with some high school friends in 2007 and and we hope to go and take the entire family again.

00:46:21.580 - 00:46:44.240

Uh, a soon as the third locks are complete, because we definitely want We've seen that on the Internet, you know? But we want to see it first hand. Okay? And what a great sons names. The oldest is named after me. Uh huh. His first name is Edward, but his middle name is Lee.

00:46:45.260 - 00:47:09.380

My wife's father's name was Milton Ley. Eso my oldest son actually goes by his middle, namely. Okay. And then I have a son, David, and a son, Matthew 33 The oldest boy has two Children. Three youngest has one who is going to be two years old in August.

00:47:10.050 - 00:47:31.700

And the middle son is still a very eligible bachelor way. Keep wondering on, uh he he has girlfriends from time to time and way, fall in love with them and say this is gonna be the one. And then he breaks your heart. Then, uh, And then something happens on bond.

00:47:32.480 - 00:47:46.470

Can they part ways. But maybe one of these days he'll meet the right you want you will eso I just have two more questions for you. So? But the first one is you know, you were only there for three years and you left a while ago.

00:47:46.470 - 00:48:22.280

So why did you keep coming back to these reunions was so special about them. Um, well, of course, the first thing is that my wife loves to come to them to see your old friends, and but there's a lot of spouses who don't come. Okay, I come because I have a firsthand appreciation for what a wonderful spot in the world Panama is.

00:48:22.990 - 00:48:57.160

And even though there is no more Panama Canal Zone, there is a Panama Canal and and there is a warm spot in my heart for the for the Panama Canal. And that's why I'm so thrilled that Panama is doing such a good job running it. And, uh, as I see when we were here in 2007, Way stayed in Panama City for a few days, one of the big high rise hotels.

00:48:57.570 - 00:49:23.170

And you know, it's wonderful to see how good how well Panama is doing on, uh, and I think they are doing so well. One of the small pieces of that is because the United States got them off on the right foot. Three. United States is not Russia, and it's not China.

00:49:23.180 - 00:49:59.490

I think the United States, with all of its false is basically good at heart and tries to tries to help other countries in the world. Uh, and so and I think I think the United States tried to help the Panamanian people. And to their wonderful credit, the Panamanian people said, Okay, we're gonna take advantage of that.

00:49:59.970 - 00:50:22.310

We're gonna work hard ourselves, and we are going to create this modern. Um, I won't see a miracle, but e mean when you compared Panama from the early days when they declared independence from Colombia with today it's like a miracle. It's very It's a remarkable achievement.

00:50:22.320 - 00:50:43.750

Yes, very well. So my last question is, if you could describe your experience in the zone in one word, what were would that be? One word? Yes. So one word you have already found out that that I that I speak many words well, but one word.

00:50:43.760 - 00:51:14.560

Yeah, just, you know, a couple of words that describe your three years there. You know what it meant to you? Well, I would have to say that it was influential in my life. In what way? They had a strong influence. It was the first time that I experienced people other than Americans Yeah, on.

00:51:14.570 - 00:51:52.580

And so it became Since then. Of course, I didn't tell you that I was. I spent time stationed in Germany also. Um, of course. Since since Panama, I've roamed the world that I'm seeing people all around the world. But Panamanians were the first foreigners that I had any experience with, and and it opened my eyes thio the world, so to speak on one of the big things, of course, is like way went to that party at the university in Panama City.

00:51:53.150 - 00:52:15.660

Um, and you find out where you start to find out that that the individual person around the world that we're kind of all the same, we look a little different. We speak a different language, but we tend to laugh and cry at the same things way.

00:52:15.660 - 00:52:38.870

Want the same things for ourselves and our Children on. Uh, wouldn't it be great if if everyone understood that and the world would probably be a better place? Very much. Well, less tragedy. Well, I don't have any other questions. I don't know if you want to add something that perhaps we didn't cover in the interview.

00:52:39.650 - 00:53:15.030

Um, let me just think for a minute. Take your time. Okay? No, I no, nothing else comes to mind. I thank you very much. Thank you. I really enjoyed doing this interview. Okay, Okay. And this concludes this interview thistles an extra part to the ad English interview.

00:53:15.040 - 00:53:49.630

So you were saying so I have. I have 11 disappointment that that I'd like to mention, and that is that the United States does not have a a bigger role to play in Panama today. It doesn't have as big a role as, for example, China China, companies that are under the let's call it under China's wing.

00:53:49.950 - 00:54:20.770

Maybe I'd even shake control, um, have a major presence in the Panama operating the Panama Canal. And And I assume that was because when Panama was contracting out various support services and jobs that the that this Chinese company probably made a lower bid. And so I got the job, for example, to operate the terminals.

00:54:20.780 - 00:55:13.550

Okay, Um uhh. I worry. And I'm concerned, uh, that Panama does not get too cozy with nations that, in my opinion, don't have their best interests at heart. Uh huh. So I was happy to see that the the United States. Uh, railroad company did get the contract to rebuild the rail bed in the rail tracks and and operate the railroad right now.

00:55:14.240 - 00:56:00.460

Um, and and hopefully, over the years, hopefully in the years to come, uh, Panama and the United States will get a little closer than they are right now. I still think, Yeah, that Yeah. That pattern that that Panama has mhm is still we're still seeing the effects of the United States leaving Panama taking over the bad.

00:56:00.460 - 00:56:32.320

I'll call it bad blood. That may be overstating it, but Panama was happy to show the United States the door, so to speak. And I'm hoping that in the years to come, the two nations develop a better relationship than they have today. Not that it's a bad relationship today, but I don't think they have a close relationship today.

00:56:33.150 - 00:56:56.350

And I think it would be it would be good if the relationship became, I think. And I think Panama would be smart, yes, to have a better relationship with the United States than it has with China. Yes, for their own good, for their own long term, good.

00:56:56.930 - 00:57:05.360

Well, and I'll leave it there. Thank you very much for adding that it's important that this really got this concludes this interview