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Good afternoon. Today is July 3rd, 2015. My name is chances, Sarah. Today we're here with Mr David Hilliard, um, talking about his experience in the Panama Canal Zone. So thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview today. Um, we could start by you telling us when and where were you born?

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I was actually born in watch Worth, Ohio. Uh, and 1937 February 1st. Okay. And what did your parents do for a living? Well, my parents. Uhh. Now we're both deceased. Okay, but when I was born in Ohio, they had accepted a job. They were married in 19.

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27 I think, June 28th, 1927. And they went to the canal zone basically just after they were married. So they were just youngsters on. Hey, went. The worker was working for the customs office where you work for probably the 1st 20 years. He was in his own, so he spent a total of 37 years there.

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Okay, but how did he end up getting that job? Where is he originally from? You know, I don't know how he got the job, but I know there's a lot in our family that at one point or another aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever were in Panama as a result of my parents going back on.

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So I have quite a few relatives who came to visit us in Panama on stayed and were employed in Panama as well. Canal Zone. Okay, so that you grew up in Panama? I grew up, actually. My parents went to the States just before I was born in 1937.

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And they did that because they thought I had to be born in the Continental United States. Have a right to be president s o. They sent me to the States. They came to the States that have me. And when I was ready when I was two months old and ready Thio travel, I traveled back panel.

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So they have very big dreams for U s. So, in essence, 20 living. I was in Panama when I was two months old. Okay. Did you have any brothers or sisters? One brother who lives six years older than may. Okay. And hey, they did the same thing with him.

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Hey, was the firstborn on? They went to the States to my grandparent's house in Ohio Way. We're all we're all born in the same hospital. Same place. My brother, my father, my my grandfather, my great grandfather were all born in the same town in a while.

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What's the name of the hospital? Wadsworth Municipal Hospital. Okay. Do you still go back there? I haven't been back there. Probably for 07 or eight years. Okay, but yeah, I still have a We still have a cousin there in Sevilla lie, which is about 12 miles from Wadsworth, who runs the Hilliard in Armstrong in some funeral.

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Okay, so what do you remember? Do you have any? Uh, okay. Did your father share any stories about his job and the memories you have of seeing your father Goto work in the zone? Oh, yeah. When he was in customs. That's probably I don't know, 10 years old, maybe 12 years old.

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He was a customs inspectors. I said that he didn't go out on board the ships who were coming through the canal and check for what? They're Carter waas and that sort of thing. And I got to go with him on the Atlantic side. He worked on the Atlantic side for a while and I got to go with him and climb up the rope ladders of the side of the ship.

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And we'd always have lunch with the captain of the ship. And so we got to experience many different nationalities, depending on the nationality of the ship that came through that. That's amazing. It was It was amazing. It was a lot of fun for me as a kid.

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And e learned a lot. Okay, so I'm a little bit about your childhood growing up in the zone, But would you and your brother didn't have fun games? You would play well in those days? Well, I was pretty little and we had a maid who lived in the city of an con.

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And I had another friend, family friend, friends of the family that lived in and kinda as well. And I used to go play under their house with him, and we make like, dirt forts and fill them with water. Had doodle bugs. You know what a doodlebug?

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Well, they kind of burrow in the sand. Yeah, doodle bugs and I had a had a made her name was Fernandez assignments. She came from Martinique, and she was are made for over 20 years on. She was fantastic One day. I know this. When I was a little younger, I got out of the crib that I was sleeping in, and she came to find me, and I was gone on eso.

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She came out looking for me, and I was on my way. They had a zoo there. That kind of I was on my way to the zoo, so she caught up with me and she says, David, where have you been? I said, Tilley, I run away Way used to go out When I was a little bit older, we'd go out and, you know, parents would say, Hey, be home for dinner and we play with our friends.

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And until dinner time, we've been back for dinner. You wouldn't do that today? No. Your parents didn't have to worry because you were safe. Yeah, right. Okay. That was a very safe environment. Okay, so how would you They were you all taught to speak Spanish because you're in Panama.

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How was that cultural exchange? Like it was interesting because my father I spoke a little Spanish and he was not very good, grammatically speaking. And people kind of excused him for his, uh, Spanish. And I vowed that I would never speak Spanish unless I knew what I was doing.

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Hey, was just say whatever you could say and people would goodbye with it, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, that was good. In fact, they had a lot of students in high school who actually came from Panama Thio Canal Zone, high school, Bubble high school. They had to pay tuition, but it waas a great opportunity for them because we had the best schools.

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Yeah, okay. And then so going back to your maid, she said she just right unique to what you said she was from. Right, Aneke your made made. Okay. So did she bring some of her cultural practices into your household? I think so. Yeah. Until till he did everything in the house.

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She cooked the meals, She washed the clothes. It was interesting. Instead of ironing the clothes from what she earned from my parents, she hired an Iron ISS way. Had I usually washed the powers, but yeah, we she she could fix things like fish. You know, a complete platter with the whole fish.

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Uh, she was just a great cook and she went home. She stayed with us under our house. It was the main supporters, and she stayed with us during the week. And on the weekends, she went home to her family, so she her family lived in Okay, All right, so But Martinique.

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We've been to martini way like like the Caribbean in those areas. Okay. Do you remember if she spoke French at all? E think she didn't speak French, but I've never I never heard her speak French as such. But around us, it was all these English. Okay.

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Um well, so I've known designers, people from all over the West Indies that also came. So what was that? Like growing up with all those different cultures all around you? Oh, it was wonderful. E love the West Indians. I'd always, uh, top of him and vision talk, you know?

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Hey, bro. What you doing, buddy? Where you going now, you know. Okay, so later on, when I went to Jamaica, I've been in Jamaica many times to I'd always go find Jamaicans and speak a little evasion thought with e. And like, how do you think that affected the dynamics of the community in the zone having all these different people there, I think it was a real plus.

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You know, as kids, we learned a lot about all cultures that we were able to experience in the zone on in Panama itself. It was great. Great place grew up. E can't think of. It was kind of like utopia. It was, You know, your parents got paid 25% differential, okay?

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Over the same job category that they have in the States. So they got 25% more. When they first went to the zone, there was no no income tax s. Oh, that was a really bones right. Later on, they instituted the income tax on what you earn their on.

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Then later on, they cut the the differential 15%. So it was getting less and less desirable If you were if they were trying to entice you Thio. Okay, but still pretty nice. It's a wonderful place, the way and then ever so you didn't have to pay for housing while you were in the zone.

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You never owned anything. You always rented your house from the government and depending upon what? Your job Waas as you got your promotions, you also got a promotion housing. You could get better housing, which was kind of nice, actually. Okay, so going back to your childhood there, How was religion Observing about Macao's on religion.

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My brother and my family and I were all part of the episcopal religion when you went to a church called ST Lukes. Man on, Um, my brother was an acolyte. I was an acolyte s o. That was about the only time that we as a family my my parents were Presbyterians, I think when they married.

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And so then later on, after we left the nest and, uh, when I was 24 I joined the Mormon Church Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints. So they weren't too thrilled with that. Hey, that's like you're still Mormon. Yeah. Okay, alright on. Do you know, like in Latin America, like the Children after school will have Catholic costless that Catholicism was?

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Were there similar religious causes for youth and his own? Yeah, I'd say the predominant religion was Catholicism. Catholicism. Okay. All right. Um, so when you were younger growing up in the zone What did you want to be when you grow up? Tell you the truth? When I wanted to be an opera singer, that was my big E.

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That was my big goal in, like, E never did get there. But I enjoy singing, so Okay, you talk a little bit about your mom. We haven't talked about her much. My mother was probably the most unselfish person that I ever knew in my entire life.

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She gave up more for the my brother myself. Thanlyin anything on board that taught me a lot. She worked in the core is L Finance and a county office for the military. While my father by this time was working for the and any retired from, uh, the Intelligence Office, he was retired as the deputy chief of internal security for the Panama Canal Company.

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So he was the administration building there. So they both worked the whole time that they lived in the zone on their retired 1964 after 37 years. Wow. So long time a long time. OK? Eso What were your relationships growing up with Panamanian citizens? Like, was there a lot of interaction between?

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Yeah, there was In fact, we had a lot of Panamanians that came to school at the same high school. In fact, still a lot that we stay in touch with today in our class. Awesome. They added a big a big part of the overall experience. Okay, Um, So while you were growing up, did you identify as American and Panamanian identified as a za America, but living in kind of line, actually in the canals don't know which was, You know, U s government area.

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So then you said you had to do. Went to Balboa High School. I did. Okay. What year did you start? I started 1951 and graduated in 1955. Okay. What do you remember about your first year of high school Like your first friends that you met? That sort of man e met a guy on.

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He was my friend throughout high school. Name was Ed Henry. Hey was one of the first ones You wrote motorcycles? We rode motorcycles together. I had a B s, a 500 cc motorcycle. He had a triumph way. Always rode around together. His father had a 47 Plymouth and my father had a 47 Plymouth four door on.

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We'd always race each other stick shift, you know? And we did the same thing on a motorcycle way. Had a fun time, okay? And then what? High school traditions that you participate in in high school? I was on the football team that played football in high school.

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Uh, after I graduated from high school, I went Thio went to the States and then came back and went to junior college. So I went to the Canal Zone Junior College as well. Okay. Graduated from there in 1958. I wanted to backtrack a little because I just realized you were also in Panama during World War Two.

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Yes. Okay. What was it like growing up in his own? What? Anything's changed. And it was harder to get some goods and such. Yeah, I was in, in fact, when the not necessarily the war with Germany and but in the war with Japan, when the Japanese, uh, bunker harbor way were out in tow.

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Boga, I'll on. We were coming back in the launch on Came back to actually, What is what was the 15th Naval district there? A pair. Everything was black out. There's a blackout going on. So you couldn't turn on lights. You couldn't drive a car with headlights.

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It was very interesting. So very shortly after that, my parents thought that the Japanese next target would be the canal. They would probably canal. So they send my brother. I toe live with my aunt and uncle in Wadsworth Collapse way were gone for about 15 months and they came back to the States to get us and bring us back to the zone.

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So But there were, You know, when I got to the States at the same thing, they were rationing on sugar. You stop ration books. In fact, I still have some ration books. World War Two. But I was It was only like, five years old. Yeah, five years.

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Like I still remember it quite a bit. Remember my aunt, you know, Iowa? They sent me to live. They had a meat locker downtown and Wadsworth and they brought these steaks back, made him actually t bone steaks. And to this day, I think it was probably the best steak e started putting the hormones and all that.

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Yeah, right. Despite all that e. Okay, s So you said you found a football team. Do you have any special memories of being in a team? Teammates like anything? Yeah, we was just a few years back that I had a friend that was on a team.

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Harold Saurel Andi hey was he was retiring after teaching for 44 years in Sacramento High school for handicapped kids. And they had had a retirement party for him up there. And there were five of us, that party, that we're on our high school football team, including Harold.

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It was amazing. It was amazing. So it's a good bonding that a wonderful, wonderful bonding. And we used to travel across the isthmus by train. Thio, Christo play crystal high school. Okay, And those are always fun nights because in those days when you traveled across the isthmus by train, Panama Railroad, all the seats were wicker seeds.

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In all lanterns were kerosene lanterns. And if you wanted to come back the other direction, you just flipped your seat in the other way. That's something s because I read that I don't know if it was during your time, but that at some point that bobbled football team was split into two sample with crystal ball.

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Or is that later on? I don't know when Crystal High School was actually opened. Okay, Probably the time I was there. It was always elbow high school and crystal. Yeah, that I can remember. I also went to Balboa Junior High School, which was on the same property.

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But it was an old wooden building where they were. The building is there today. The old high school building. Okay, now, what did you all do for fun? You on your phone, E? We did everything way. Did a lot of dancing way went out as groups way went to the Atlas Beer garden.

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We went to the El Rancho, which is another beer garden there in Panama. Way went Thio. Pete's Catalina was another place we went to, but we enjoyed going out. We're eating on and just having fun together. Okay, so I had a act discussion, but what was dating, like in the 19 fifties about this great hoop skirts, you know, alot sorts think sleeves rolled up short sleeve.

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Yeah, a fantastic it was. I could show you a few pictures of me and some of those outfits I would love to see photos. I don't know with, uh, but anyway, no, It was like I said, it was like I do a lot with my parents to whoever I dated, they would invite along.

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And way to go is a family. You know, two things at the Sailfish club. I know we'd always go for sizzling stakes, A little filet wrapped in bacon and french fries on that e. I think the cost of that was, like, $2.50 back in those days.

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I'd always ask my parents. After I ate the first one, I said, Hey, can I have another one? E o que eso? Did you socialize with Pammy and high school students? Yeah, OK, we did. I do? Yeah. What was that like? That was fun. We had some great students who we still love today.

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I mean, they're great. I mean, one of them, Caesar Peng Chong. He was in my English and my math class. Our instructor was W hatchet and Caesar was a brain. He was smartest of women, and he sat over by the window. But he always raised his hand.

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Anytime when Mr Hat should ask the question. I had to get him aside after Because I said, Look, Caesar, you're making the rest of us look like Come on. Now, get with the program. E Think he ended up being He's still in Panama. He's a cattle rancher down there for a while.

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Yeah, but I was also wanted to know, too about just students primates that didn't attend your high school. But that weren't regular plan in my high school, did you have? Didn't have much contact? Basically, the ones we had contact with those who were going to school with most of our alright?

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Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Are we adding something? No. Sure, but there were No We didn't have a lot of contact with any other than our friends. We spend a lot of time with them. High school, Okay. Even even junior high. So Okay, so I had right?

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Also that there was riots in 1947. Yeah. Okay. So what do you remember about that? I just remember that there was writing and it was mostly is I recall the students in the Panamanian school. It was right on the border. Fourth of July Avenue. Yes, there and I just remember at one point I don't know if it was in 47 or not, but they had tanks were talking about The US had tanks along the border.

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It was kind of scary. I had always asked my father because he was intelligence. Asked him because he worked with Panama on a swell on. I always ask him what's going on in Panama? E I can't really tell you anything, E uh, since you know Panama canals in those American how did Cold War politics affect your life as high school students?

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If at all, you know, did it seep into it? Not at all. It was It was kind of like, as I say, Shangri La, uh, you weren't exposed to a lot of inflation. You didn't really, uh, you know, didn't weren't too much involved in what? What was going on in the rest of the world?

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Actually, it was just kind of a safe yes, uh, secure place to be OK, so 1955. You graduate high school. What were your impressions of the world of that time? What were you thinking? I'll tell you what I thought when I graduated from high school had this in mind if I could If I could make $10,000 a year on live in $20,000 house, I would be the richest person in the happiest person in the world.

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Okay, how in the world did you get those very system ignores? I don't know. I guess from reading one average costs were back in those times. I said, Well, if I had a house and it's $20,000 house and I made 10,000 would be out of the world.

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Okay. Okay. So you said after you graduated, you came to the stage. Terabit E. Okay. What motivated that decision? What did you do coming here? Well, nearly all the graduates in high school, a good number of them were coming in the States toe finish their education to go to school.

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A few went directly from high school into junior college. E was one that went to the States Thio. I had a friend who was when I played within the dams that we built early on, went to the University of Colorado and I said, It sounds pretty good.

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I'll apply there. So I applied and I was accepted and that's that's where I went for a year. But the story is I didn't do too well academically. There s o s o They didn't invite me back. So that's why I came back to Panama. Goto canals on junior college to kinda, you know, get back in the swing of college work and kind of kind of take care of that last year that I had it in Colorado.

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So killer about the teacher that he had Oh, yeah, your English teacher. I had a wonderful teacher. Didn't think of it when I was going. I had the same teacher, Ms Whitman, for three years in high school, and she was the toughest English teacher of any English teacher I ever had.

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That was I talked. A couple of Reggie Hayden and some of the others say the same thing. I hated this one when she was hard. She was tough. Well, when I went to college, E got A's on all my essays. Eso I'm saying Thank you, Ms Whitman.

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Thank you, Ms Whitman. Because she taught you what you needed to know the power of a very good teacher. Very good teacher. Wow way Just had teachers. When they first came to Panama to work in the canals, schools had that master's degrees and the females had to be single.

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I don't know why that waas, but they had to be single once they got married while in there, they lost their job. Really? Yeah, eso. But we had a lot of our female teachers were single on uhh, but they were great great teachers, so I couldn't say enough about the education that we got suddenly intended school.

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So then when you were in Colorado, was it wasn't that you weren't smart enough? Because obviously you were Was it just that it was hard to focus in the classes? Well, it was kind of a party school. Some people could go from high school to college without any bullet.

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Other people just aren't ready on from a From that standpoint, I wasn't ready to buckle down, study and do all those. How is the transitioning from being American and the zones being American in the States? That could college was it was pretty easy to fit in pretty pretty easy.

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Okay, What a problem at all. In fact, sometimes it was a benefit because you were able to talk to people about how you grew up, where you grew up and share experiences with them, who maybe had never been out of the country are ever experienced anything like Okay, So when you came back to Panama to fridge in your college and you finish what was your did you major in something a majored in, basically engineering on uhh.

00:28:25.640 - 00:28:44.670

A smudges you could do in junior column. And then when I transferred to college in California, where I completed my degree in mechanical engineering Cal Poly and sandals this book California. Okay, then after that, did you after you finish college in California, Did you return to the zone?

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Hi. Well, no, I immediately went into the military. I got my commission as a second lieutenant in the Army. Okay. In the field Artillery. And I reported Fort Sill, Oklahoma for my first duty station. Okay. And then, um, do you wanna talk anything about your military career?

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Well, it's a long career. It was a total of 31 years active duty and National Guard and Army reserves. My brother e My brother, my brother. My father first was in the Navias. Well, while he was in the canal zone. He was, He was He was basically a 90 day wonder.

00:29:36.130 - 00:29:52.630

He was commissioned in the Navy as a lieutenant, J. G. Usually you're commissioned as an ensign, but if you have especially that they require, you might, you know, get a higher grade as a result of it. I think he was on his way to Japan on a cruiser.

00:29:52.630 - 00:30:09.530

He went the language school in Monterey, California. And he was on his way to Japan when the war ended there, and he came back. And then he went to work for the 15th Naval District in intelligence there, he worked for a number of years for the Navy.

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Way lived, actually in the 15th Naval District, right on the banks of the canal in a two family house for a few years while he was working there. Then he chose to go back to the work for the Panama Canal Company on and spent the remainder of his time, as in the intelligence Office.

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They're retired, is a deputy chief of internal security for the canal. Wow. When did he retired? Retired in 1964 1984. Okay, so your father retires. 1964. My father retired 1960. Okay, so what? We're there, you know, because that's also the same year as the rides that happen.

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So what, did that motivate their retirement in any way? I don't think so. I think that anything to do with it all When I when I went to my first job after the military, two years on active duty. Um, I went I could either go. When I got out of the military, I could either go to my home of record or I could go back to California, where I came into the service and I chose my home record, which was Balbo Canal Zone s.

00:31:23.610 - 00:31:40.910

I got a free trip home. I took my goods and I stored us on, went to Panama and spent about three weeks with my with my parents. Okay. All right. Um and then what were your thoughts when the treaty of 77 was signed? I've already feelings in that.

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You mean when, uh, Carter Carter gave away things? Yes, it was. Had a lot of mixed feelings simply because, you know, the original treaty was supposed to be acting as though you were sovereign in perpetuity. Yes. Uh huh. I had the feeling that, you know, everything that had been done was gonna be destroyed over and over time.

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Yeah, people had worked there for generations. That was their home, that they gave away. So I wasn't too happy. That's understandable. That's where you grew up. Wasn't too happy. Okay, But over the years, you know what we thought the Panamanians couldn't do or they bobble or whatnot.

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They've done very well on that is the operation of the canal. You got to remember that even before all this took place, there were many Panamanians that worked on the canal s O. They had a number of years before the year 2000. Even further training. And so they were just great.

00:32:46.400 - 00:33:08.280

They picked the ball up and ran with it. Did a great job How you visited the zone since the Panamanians have Thio graduated in 1990 way were there in 1999 prior to the year 2000, when we started turn everything. And that's the year they closed the high school.

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Yes. Yeah. Okay. The last graduating costs. That's graduating class. Okay, so I was kind of that was that was fun, but it was interesting to I mean, but how did that feel? Like to see just the school that you graduated from that All of that was close.

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It was It was It was It was It was hard. Thio. Imagine that this was going on because that school been around for a long time. A long time. I remember. A school is situated right at the end of the runway for all which was all work Air Force Base on.

00:33:44.630 - 00:34:02.450

I can't tell you how many hundreds of thousands of planes landed and took off over the high school. Never had an instance. That's something that every high school student has. That memory. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Okay, so I just have a couple more questions here. When did you meet your wife?

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When did you see that? Married. How did that happen? Well, that's interesting. Before I went on active duty, I married, uh, girl from santelises. Pissed bow on. We went right after we're married, went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and started my military for and in the ensuing years, we had five Children and let's see five Children and after 31 31 years of marriage.

00:34:35.960 - 00:35:13.580

We divorced. Okay. Uhh. We have been married now for 21 years. Eso I've been married most of my don't light 52 years. Right? So our goal now is to make 32 way actually, way lived on the same street in Valencia, California on uh uh I kind of thought she was a little snobbish when I first met her.

00:35:13.580 - 00:35:42.010

You know, I was married and she was a member of the same congregation. Same war on, uh, so we just We were just she and her husband, my wife and I We on Lee associate ID in church. Check of these things, that nature. So when I was getting divorced, I went over to her house to ask because I found out that she was divorced.

00:35:42.020 - 00:36:05.280

Okay, on went over to her house to ask who she used is an attorney s o that started it all. All right. First date we went to a movie, a movie together, And, uh so I went to the ask for tickets. I said one senior and I looked at her.

00:36:05.290 - 00:36:27.240

She said, make them too e okay to seniors A a. It was interesting, because every time I go take a never question it. But every time she tell her she was senior, you're not a scene, okay? You say so. You have five Children. I have five.

00:36:27.250 - 00:36:44.260

She had three, so we have eight together. Oh, ok. Do you want to give him against the names of your Children and what they do now? I have a son by the name of David. Took after me. He's the assistant general manager of Hilton Garden Inn in groups for Hill.

00:36:44.430 - 00:37:17.360

Okay. And, uh, late in Ohio. I have daughter lives in San Antonio, Texas. She and her husband, he's in the the oil business on. Then. I have a son Jay works for Disney has just completed his 20th year with Disney. Andi, I have Pamela, my deaf daughter, who is here with us for the reunion and for the dinner tonight.

00:37:18.060 - 00:37:52.300

She and her husband, she graduated with her degree in business management. And then I have David. My son graduated with his degree in, uh, communications from Wieber State University. And, yeah, Utah grandkids. We'll have one more thing. The youngest one. Susan, She lives in West Point, Utah.

00:37:52.310 - 00:38:10.440

Okay, but she didn't ever go to college. I'm trying to get her to go. She went for a semester on. Didn't do too well. So now I'm trying to get her to go. A program called Pathway On. It's an easy program put on by BYU, Idaho.

00:38:10.920 - 00:38:37.250

Okay, only 65 hours of credit. Wow. Yes, yes. $65. You can get a four year degree for less than $8000. University of Florida cost $10,000 a semester. Yeah, yeah, We'll see what I'm saying. Now, here's a girl that she has five. She has 44 girls on board.

00:38:37.620 - 00:39:00.550

So those are 44 of our grandchildren together. We have 24 grandchildren on 18 great grandchildren. Okay. Oh, my gosh. A big family e gonna have you know. Have you taken any of them back to Panama? You see where you grew up? Okay, daughter here I took She was the oldest daughter Joni I took.

00:39:01.120 - 00:39:25.520

When was the one that lives in San Antonio? E took she and Pamela, my death daughter. They've both been the Panama, but, uh, Pamela, My daughter's been twice way took her husband. He'd never been okay. They were the life of the party. How is that? Like taking your Children to seat of a place that such an important part of your childhood?

00:39:25.530 - 00:39:44.780

You know, that was great. Okay, I absolutely loved it. They loved it. But the rest of my Children don't know that much. Those who haven't been on since we're kind of spread all the place. It's hard to get together and tell them I'm trying to do this with the grandkids.

00:39:44.780 - 00:40:02.830

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I really like it. Okay, So then my asked, two questions are the first one is what's so special about this community that you still come back to these reunions. After all this time, I'm telling you, it's the people that you went to school with.

00:40:03.310 - 00:40:24.250

It's like, uh, it was such a small community. Canals on itself was about 10,000 people, which is a lot of people. Everybody knew you. They knew your parents. You know, your grand parents, you know, you use siblings. Eso you couldn't get in much trouble without somebody E Yeah.

00:40:24.310 - 00:40:51.740

Oh, but it's just that we I think, in particular our class. Our class of 1955 was a class of We just We just bonded and never let that bond go. I mean, I could see in fact, this year I think I saw one of my classmates that I hadn't seen for 60 years.

00:40:52.110 - 00:41:14.670

Oh, it was like yesterday. That's beautiful. It iss That's really beautiful. We have ah, Bond. We stay in touch with one another. We We have some of the live in California. We they travel with us. They were going to hold Hawaii Hawaii together in September on and it Z just I don't know.

00:41:14.680 - 00:41:37.610

E can't explain the feeling, but it Z it's just a great relationship with everyone. We went to school. Okay, So my last question is, if you could describe your experience living in the zone in one word, what word would that be? Fantastic. Okay. Okay. And why?

00:41:37.920 - 00:41:59.640

Simply because I don't think you could get the kind of education and three the ability to learn from different cultures and whatnot anywhere else with the same kind of result. E Just think it z what made us what we are out of our clients of 176 students.

00:42:01.170 - 00:42:22.430

I can't think of anyone that I know off That has done well in life. Yeah, whatever that well is, they just They have not. They've all done extremely well. What do you think That getting that high school education in Panama gave you that you've all been able to succeed some well in life.

00:42:22.900 - 00:42:39.940

I think it was a lot of things, but one thing I think it was the instructors that we had because the schools were the best they didn't send anybody to panel on in those days, which was unheard off. Have to have a master screen back then.

00:42:39.940 - 00:43:03.320

Now it's Colin. You can't go anywhere without a mask Street. But back then it was It was really something way kidded our teachers. We had fun with our teachers. We got in trouble with our teacher with it was of any place that I could think of it.

00:43:03.330 - 00:43:25.030

It was the most wonderful experience of any place that I could imagine growing up. A lot of people come from big cities. They never developed a bond, you know, in small communities. She came from a small community in the States, and so she kind of understands a little bit about how it iss Yeah, okay.

00:43:25.400 - 00:43:40.680

S o. I don't have any more questions about the canal zone. I don't know if you want to say anything about your military service. For the record, So we have a veterans history project on my job. That z military. My brother walked up. Tell your family how it goes.

00:43:40.680 - 00:43:58.800

My brother retired a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force. Okay. My father retired as a commander in the Navy, and I retired as a full colonel in the Army s. So we have several of the services covered on, so we're kind of a military family on.

00:43:58.810 - 00:44:15.150

My brother is buried in Arlington National Cemetery, and my parents were both buried there. That's where we're gonna be buried when that time comes. So and I'm the only one left. My parents were gone. My brother is gone. And so I'm the last of the Mohicans.

00:44:15.590 - 00:44:54.600

Wow. E really love that movie? The, uh S o. Do you have any special memories about your time in this? In the service? Do you wanna talk about time in in the army that you wanna time? Yeah. I had e had a volunteered to go Thio Desert Storm, First Desert okay, But I was in the medical service corps then and they wanted all my X ray technicians, all my doctors, the nurses, the lab techs, uh, the uh huh.

00:44:56.430 - 00:45:20.820

What we call the medical supply people. What? So we sent those all and we ran. Silas behaves Army Community Hospital up in fort or on theme. The civilians who we treated there didn't want the regular folks to come back because we treated him so much better while while they were gone.

00:45:20.830 - 00:46:09.780

But I didn't. Didn't send a combat sport hospital. Thio Desert Storm on. I didn't get to go because I was a administrator, as opposed to being a physician or whatever they didn't want. And they didn't need any more administrator. They needed the hands on folks. So when my whole military career was in addition to the active duty, it was in the National Guard I spent, I don't know how many years of guard maybe 20 years of guard guard time in the Army reserves had some great duty stations like Tripler Army Medical Center, white on, uh, on.

00:46:09.780 - 00:46:36.950

I was remember telling my father had passed away, but I told my brother I said He's got to stand up and salute me. Now I'm a little more ranked E, but I spent all my time. I didn't spend it any, Uh, although I'm a veteran, I was during the Cuban crisis and during the Vietnam e never actually spend any time in any one of those contracts.

00:46:37.480 - 00:46:55.590

All right, Okay. So I don't have any other questions. I don't know if there's something that you would like to add to the injury that perhaps we didn't cover. Are are you happy about what you've talked about? I think I'm happy with when I talked about I just like to say that you know, any place to grow up?

00:46:55.590 - 00:47:14.700

I couldn't. I couldn't have picked a better spot. Or my parents could have picked a for a grow up that in the canal zone it was It was a experience of a lifetime. Thank you. Well, thank you both for sharing this time with us today on dis conclusive interview