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Mhm. Yeah, from Gainesville, Florida Mhm. I mean, it means hello, I'm Mike Cannon. And this is conversation today. The University of Florida entered into a formal agreement with Spain more specifically with the Madrid based Institute for Spanish American Cooperation. The Spanish authorities chose this university as the first U S institution of higher learning with which to establish formal academic ties because of the strong reputation of Florida's Center for Latin American Studies, the important resources of the university's Center for Florida Studies and this state strategic position as gateway to Latin America to explore the meaning of today's agreement and its potential benefits for both Florida and Spain.

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I'll return in a moment with my guests. Conversation from the University of Florida, a discussion of social, political, scientific and religious issues of the day. Your host is Dr Michael Vegan in Ring professor of Ethics, an assistant dean of the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences at the University of Florida.

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My guess on this conversation are Dr Samuel Proctor, director of the Center for Florida Studies in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences of the university, and senior Raymond Bella, who is head of the United States Department of the Institute for Spanish American Cooperation. Gentlemen, welcome to conversation.

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We get off to a very informal starts on this program. As you can see, sometimes we don't know if we're on the air or not. But we are on the air and to talk about the Spanish American agreement that was signed today, if I could give just a little background this morning.

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President Marston Robert Q. Marston, representing the University of Florida, and Senor Jose Alvarez Romero, director of cultural affairs of the Institute for Spanish American Cooperation, based in Madrid, signed a formal academic agreement. And at the University of Florida, those of us who have worked on the development of that agreement over a number of months, even we may say a number of years are very pleased.

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And Raymond, I hope on your side. Spain and institutions of higher learning in your country are equally pleased. Would you like to combat on today's ceremony? Well, as I say, I said this morning during the ceremony. I think Florida has special ties or have special ties with Spain during three centuries, as you well known.

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No. Uh, besides that, the University of Florida has been working through its Institute of Latin American Affairs. And so the Mr Park in the center of Florida studies Uh huh, uh, about the Spanish history and the relations with Spain and the Latin American War that can, I think, cannot be detached from Spain because it's the ground.

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It's a the evolution of its history and so on. And I think this is a very important agreement in order to go a little bit deeper and to the problems of the our today's world related to Spain, Latin America and the United States. I think so.

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As I had the opportunity to comment at luncheon today. It will be the year 2055 before the American flag will have flown over Florida as long as did the flag of Spain. Many people in our state are unaware of the three centuries of Spanish rule of Florida and of the long cultural tradition that is Florida's.

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So it was with great interest. I know that many people who are familiar with that history and tradition, remarked today's events. Sam as a long time Florida historian and director of the Center for Florida Studies. I know that this meant a great deal to you. Yes, this is, I think, a very important milestone in the history of the university.

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We in the history field in Florida, history in Southern history, American history, Caribbean history have long been aware of the great heritage that we possess here in Florida, going back to the very beginnings of recorded history because the first, uh, Spaniards to arrive in what is now the United States arrived off the east coast of Florida, not so many miles away from Gainesville.

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So it's something that's very close to us. And I think we ought to also point out in talking about anniversaries, that the fact the 5/100 anniversary of the discovery of America is rapidly approaching in 1992. And I think it's very important for us to begin planning for that celebration both here in the United States and in Spain.

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And this gives us, I think, uh, kind of a special, uh, commitment to begin working on it here and indeed, the 5/100 anniversary of the discovery of Florida in 2013. Right? So it's not too soon for us to begin Raymond, all kinds of all kinds of birthday cakes are going to have to start baking soon.

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Well, for 17 years, really? You and I have been interested in this thing bringing about what we saw completed today. I met the first time the gonorrhea and I think in San Augustine in 1963. Yes, on occasion of the preparation of the Centennial Florida. Yeah. Um And then the celebration happened later, Two years later, in 165.

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I didn't attend the celebration, but yes, the preparation. At that time it was presided. The big dinner that we had there by the Vice President Johnson. Vice President Johnson was there that evening. Yes. Good evening, Senator Holland. Senator Holland? Yes. And the other Senate that I can't remember his name.

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He was a very tall man. Senator Smathers. This method, Yes, that was a distinguished gathering in ST Augustine. And indeed, President Kennedy had an intended in 1965 to go to ST Augustine to help the city celebrate his 4/100 anniversary. Tragically, he was killed before that could be possible.

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You know, one of the things that Dr McCoy, who is the associate director for the Center of Latin American Studies, pointed out at the luncheon today that we've also got to be aware of that. We're talking about our heritage and the historical relationship between Spain and the United States, which we hope to develop bye students and faculty moving back and forth between the two countries, all kinds of historical research.

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But it's also important for us to understand that Spain today as one of the newest. In many ways, democracies of the world has a great deal to say to us and to the rest of the world so that we can gather a great deal more from this relationship than just a reflection on the past.

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Yes, I think that's important. To point out the agreement that was struck today was not one simply to explore and to recover the past. As important as that is, but to build for the future. And indeed, I believe there are arrangements underway now, thanks to a meeting, we had this morning to send a team of US scholars to Madrid in a number of months, one of whom would be a sociologist in order sociologists, political scientists, but somebody who's sensitive to what's going on in Florida and in the Caribbean in the way of population movement, trade, Uh, that kind of thing.

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Freeman what? In traveling around the United States, what are the interests that you find among Americans in Spain and Spanish culture? Well, you know, in this country the development of Spanish studies or Hispanic studies, including the not only the study dealing with this pain but also, uh, the historical contribution of Spain to the development of this continent.

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I think it's very important. This morning I said, that is very, very revealing. I mean, if you see, for example, from the catalogue of one of our living editorials Castalia the enormous amount of publications, publications written by American scholars or the Spanish scholars teaching in, in, in in universities, in this country in the contribution of this country, the development and the knowledge of Hispanic culture is really amazing.

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It's amazing. I know that some people, among them a Spanish professor in Houston, the physiologist, Dr Carlos. He's, for example, preparing a list Oh, Spanish scientists and the contribution of the Spanish scientists also to the development of the of the human knowledge in this country. But I mean I think they're there to flows.

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When are the Spanish overall that came to this country during the after the Spanish Civil War, which was very important then the comers after the fifties, so to speak, when they an arms development of the universities in this country, the Americans that were interested in Spain and the Spanish problems we have, I think as you know, I'm executive director, also of the Forward program, and I think we have.

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We have had around 2000 American grantees in Spain during these 20 years. Among them, there are many, many Dean's scholars. In the end, one who is a very good friend of mine, very well known by all of you is the newly appointed ambassador of the United States to Mexico, Julian Nava, who was teaching at the University of Valladolid, who is an outstanding scholar.

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And he published that in Valladolid For these students, a book dealing about the American terminology in science and Julian Nava. So I mean, this was two ways flow that after the signing of the agreements of 1970 and the Treaty of 24 of January of 1976 that has put an amount of $9 million for cultural, educational, scientific and technological cooperation.

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Uh, increase the ties between Spain and United States in a way that never has happened with Spain, with any country in the world and overall provided the possibility of many Americans to go to Spain and many Spanish to come to this country. I wonder if you would like to develop some of the reasons why Spain has made the agreement it has with this particular university before he does that.

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Mike, I want to also just interject the fact that there are an increasing number of young Spanish scholars working in Spain on United States history. Uh, Antonio Acosta has just now published a book dealing with Louisiana and the Mississippi Valley. We had one, uh, Martina and Pablo Tornero here this last year.

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Both of them have worked in this area, and of course we have the work of Elena Sanchez. Fabrice from this collection of books was one of the undertaken by the one of these committees on occasion of the Bicentennial, and it's a collection of 16 books published by Spanish scholars, the collection of six and the others by the teams establishing the three main archives of Spain having documents dealing with the history of the United States, which are the archive of India's in It's Yeah, the archive of Salamanca and the, uh, general kind of Madrid.

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And I think this is a very important undertaking. And if and I will do, uh, as as as much as I can the best in order to continue to publish the documents dealing with the history of this country. Oh, that's good, because I think we have We may have a lot of materials.

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Oh, you do you do You have tremendous quantities. In March, just a couple of months ago, I was in the archives of the Indies in Seville and looking once again at the hundreds and hundreds of bundles of documents that were trying to early North America. We're trying to get much of that microfilm and brought to the University of Florida to add to our collection on Spanish borderlands material.

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But you know, there is something very important about talking about the the common people in Spain about some of the former parts of the oldest Spanish empire have a magic name and the thing Among these parts are Naples in Italy, Magic name California in the United States and fly I mean the legend of the function of jewels of the anonymous possibilities that of you know, of the eternal life to the magic legions had the stories of the great Conquistadors who came here.

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Yeah, you know, I mean, Florida has a magic name, like some of the parts. I mean, we're not so magic. Does it have a magic name among the general population? The general population? Yes. They say California, Florida, Naples. You know, there are some parts that have my magic name, some others not, you know, but, I mean, this is That's why it's at times, I mean, for the common people, when you talk about Florida and the Florida doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

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Well, at least they have. They smile and they did something which is, has has for the Spanish magic remembrances. Magic things are so important in the rally, are indeed, and getting back to the question I was sleeping in there a moment ago. Maybe it's magic. Maybe that's the reason why your institute shows the University of Florida, or perhaps there are more substantive reasons, sure, while the University of Florida has your Center for Historical Studies at the center of a Latin American studies that has been worked for many men over 40 years, I think has a leading position in the in the knowledge of Latin America in the research for the knowledge of today's problem of this continent.

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I think also that you have an incredible facilities. Your library is first class library and the people that were working in Florida for many years. As you know, in Latin American studies like Wilders, Carter and so many and and their reputations are international sure. And since the very beginning, we thought that Florida University of Florida was a university to arrange some kind of cooperation in order to take advantage of what you have been doing on Latin American studies and research in historical well, we're very strategically located because we're adjacent to the border lands, which played a tremendously important role in Spanish history and Spanish policy for literally hundreds of years, and because of our proximity to Latin America and the Caribbean, we're really at the crossroads of America and in Spain, Sam, what are the things that are envisioned by you as director of the Center for Florida Studies in the wake of this agreement, well, I certainly see immediately the need for a flow of students and faculty back and forth between Florida, between our university and in fact the Southeast to the institutions in Spain.

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And I see their scholars, their graduate students and their faculty coming to us to teach, to take courses here, which they can then take back to their own universities and to do research in our libraries because they have tremendously rich resources in their libraries. But they need to look at what we have here available also as the joint publications.

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And in fact, we've committed ourselves to publishing the papers that were presented at the conference that was held the Spanish United States conference that was held on this campus this past December. And Morales Padron, from civilian, used a diary from the Archives of the Indies, a diary that was kept in 17 81 at the time of the Spanish attack on Pensacola, which marked the end of English control in the Mississippi Valley.

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And we're committed to publishing that in a Spanish and English edition. I see joint conferences similar to the one we held in uh, 1979. We are talking about a second conference, perhaps to be held in Spain in 1981 at which time we can once again bring scholars together to talk about the past, but also to talk about contemporary events and to also go into the cultural resources of both countries.

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This is one of the things we do not want to neglect the tremendous impact that Spanish art, Spanish films, literature and music has made on the American mind. And American thought yes, just now these days was closed. Was closed. This exhibit of the Spanish modern painting at the Guggenheim Museum and the Cheetah exhibit this culture of Cheetah, and I think the 16 is going to be shown in New York City, a big exhibit on Picasso exhibit of Picasso.

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As you know, according to the critics, GTs consider with more who are not the greatest architects of this century. So the Spanish continue to contribute a lot of the modern I. I was talking to a member of our faculty in architecture some weeks ago, and he pointed out what an impact that has had Spanish architecture has had on the building construction, residential commercial building construction in this state, particularly in the 20th century.

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The impact can be seen in many of the structures put up in South Florida during the boom of the 19 twenties and continuing right down to the present time the Alhambra, for instance. Mhm. There's one thing that I want us to talk about. In the December conference of half a year ago, one of the sessions was devoted to the place of Spain in World War Two.

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That topic was very briefly touched upon, and I've heard it mentioned a number of times today that in a subsequent conference we might develop that a little further. So some of these more contemporary issues that have not really been treated substantively by scholars on both sides.

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Some of these issues might make very interesting sessions, right? In many ways, we've just touched the tip of the iceberg. Certainly this was true of the conference in December. We realized at that time that we had many more scholars, both in the United States, in Florida and in Spain, who were eligible to present papers and we just did not have enough time in the one week that we had scheduled.

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So there are all kinds of possibilities. Raymond. Historians in Spain feel certainly very free to talk about the World War Two and post war years. Oh, sure know that. Now there's a new generation of young historians. One was here as you know Venus. Then he has already published something about, for example, the problem of the goal that was taken to the Soviet Union during the Civil War to pay the the Soviet contribution to the to the Republican Army.

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And but they are isolated works, you know, research works now are beginning to appear. But as I say, there is a group of young Spanish historians like Morales Liccardo like Professor Spot of the University of Madrid and Professor Funk of this university. He is very much interested in having a meeting with the Spanish historians that we perhaps can patronize Professor Art Funk of our Department of History in order to deal about the United States, Latin America and Spain during world war number.

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Though, as you know, the position of Spain was a very difficult one after the civil war. This being was almost destroy. The beginning of the recovery was very difficult. And then the pressure of the countries surrounding or not to speak about Germany because, as you know at that time was so powerful that nobody there, you know, to resist the pressure has not been.

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They are isolated studies about that. There is another proctor from Iowa. Another Professor Proctor, who has written a very interesting book about which is called The Agony of a Country, About the Spain did wild. And our good friend, Professor Detweiller of the University of Southern Illinois, has worked on this.

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He has published a book in German called Spain, especially Pan in his vision. Uh huh s mission hits the wrong Gibraltar, which I think is a very good to study about the position of Spain during the world. There was also another thing published by another university place about the the the influence of the attitude of Spain in the Mediterranean world.

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But they are not too many. There is no a global study about the attitude of Spain, the Spanish, the Spanish government. Because, as you are the world off the position of Frank at that time, uh was of non religion in the war. And then, of course, the study of this attitude has not been accomplished by the actual now by the by the historians, because it was mixed with the political antipathy that the democracy had against Franco.

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But I think it's still a serious undertaken of this of the holy story of the Spanish position, the Second World War. I think it's very important, and it's beginning now to develop. We were talking last evening. You remember about the role that Spain played in rescuing Jews during World War Two, some 35,000, and maybe more than that, more than that got Spanish passport.

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I mean, there were two things about the Jewish. I mean, all the Jewish from Eastern Europe that were Sephardic construction got the Spanish passport, and around 35 were went through Spain to at the beginning, I think, to Argentina, the Dominican Republic, many to the Dominican Republic.

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The point is that this kind of thing now will open up. A whole new area for American scholars should begin to examine because the records are now becoming available and the story can be told and not only that until this 44 many consulates of Spain and many embassies they granted even to non Sephardi Jewish Spanish passport.

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And the Germans respected that till 44 after the 44. They hardly respected anymore this passport. But still, I think there was no country in Europe in no other neutral can't country like with, uh, Switzerland or Sweden that it has much suspended in favor of the Jewish overall in Central and South Eastern Europe.

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That's a story that needs to be told and a great deal more detailed. Um, I want to be sure that we mentioned ST Augustine before we close our conversation, because that is the third entity in this series of agreements and in this, uh, nexus of scholarly cooperation that is being drawn up and formalized.

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Today we saw the formal signing of an agreement between the University of Florida and Spain, and sometime in summer, we expect there will be a similar agreement drawn up between the University of Florida and the historic ST Augustine Preservation Board, based upon a number of conversations and meetings that we've already had.

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Yes, and thus it will be a tripartite association of cooperation Saint Augustine, providing a wonderful laboratory for historical and archaeological study and just compared a few miles away from this university. And I think it's the first city of the United States first city of the United States adverse entrance of this manage Conquistadors into Florida.

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That's right and the place where the orange was introduced. And he was very fitting that at the signing ceremony this morning, toasts were drunk in orange juice. Right? Right, Absolutely. I think that's very important. And President Marston pointed out that the Spaniards brought the oranges to Florida when they came in the 16th century.

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And certainly that has reaped a great harvest for US fruit and in dollars over the years, in fact, that the Spaniards are responsible for both of our principal industries. They introduced the orange and they were the first tourists, Shasha and land developers. Alright, A very special tourist.

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Yes, and now they're coming in. Large numbers of tourism has from Europe and from the Iberian Peninsula is growing in this state very rapidly. And of course, South Florida is, uh, a very bilingual area and very much attuned to Latin America. Well, I hate to draw this conversation to a close.

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But I must. And I thank you very much, Ramon, for being with me on this program. As I thank you also, Sam, Sam and I have had conversations a number of times over the years that we've had this program. That a lot of things about a lot of things.

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Yes. This is the first time we've had you, Ramon. But it will not be the last. You come to the United States frequently. We hope that you will return just as frequently to Gainesville. Well, I want to thank also, you've been gone on because I know they're gonna force.

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As I said, for 17 years he has been working in order to improve the relations between Spain and the United States and Florida. And Professor Proctor, the same thing. I think you are people that really are working for the cooperation among the international community in the right way.

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Thank you, Raymond. Thank you, Sam, for being with me on conversation. Thank you. Mm. No. Mhm.