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It's July 2nd 2010. This is Candace Ellis and Amanda. No, we're interviewing DD Brammer. Malena. Bremer. Bremer. All right, Um uh, and the best place to start. I guess it's from the beginning. So how did your family yourselves find yourself in the canal zone? Well, the time was a French building of the canal when our families actually began with the arrival of Jean Le Prayer.

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And, uh, Edmund, they said, or it was the opposite. Anyhow, they came from France. They were not coming for the construction of the canal, but rather as wine distributors. So they came and distributed French wine. And of course, there was quite a market for it. Took a lot of courage and initiative on from there are Grant.

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These were great grand parents. So my great great great grandmother Alina Bai said, was raised in Panama of by French parents are grandmother Excuse me, grandmother Elena. Set raised in Panama by the French parents. And in the meantime, our grandfather came from Jamaica. You could tell that part of the story.

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Our grandfather, who came from Jamaica, came from to Panama to start his own business. It was in the agricultural supplies and veterinary supplies business. He was an Englishman. Yeah. Um oh, you said Jamaica, Jamaica, a Brit from Jamaica. I spoke with the Jamaican accent, Theo Invasion accent.

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We love it. But hey began his own import export business with the idea of these agricultural veterinarian products, but And he went into business with a Danish man. And is Mr Did Mr What's his first name? I can't remember his first name, Mr Ish Oy vanish and they're credited for importing the canal zone Matches from Sweden.

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And I have a box up in my room and I neglected to bring it with me. I'm sorry. There's a pack in the museum. There is. There's a really That's awesome. About 12 museum. And they were specially made because of the humidity in Panama. E wonder if they'd still late.

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Loathe little box. I have the end where you brush the match e So somehow this pad, this Jamaican gentleman Brit got together with this French lady. Send them The pictures in the French connection is so fascinating. This is their wedding picture. Oh, wow. It's a very Renate dressed.

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Yeah, that was about 1909 Approximately 1910 wouldn't show. E should have highlighted the dates, but, uh, things goes off to their friends and family. That's great. Is that your family tree thing? This is part of the wrong branch. Well, that's one of the sisters, my grandmother's Alina Bai said.

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Her sister, Sarah Bay said, ended up marrying an American and moving to the United States. So we've been in touch with that branch of the French family. But we called our grandparent's Ito Anita, which was short for Alito and abuelita. So although they were French and Brits, they spoke Spanish in the home and English because, but with British, British and Jamaican accent.

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But eat those business. The import business is ah, hence, yes. School 50 has been in the family ever since and is now run by our cousin and his son Pancho Guardia Escoffier and his son Tommy. Could we even mention our grandfather's name? Is Comfort s coffee?

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Yes, I hands. Yes. Did we mention that very disjointed? Yes. C o f f e r y eso claiming on the basis got together with Francis Scott free. They say they say, and produced 66 Children, one of them being her mother. One of them was our mother.

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So there was only one brother. And back in those days, my grandfather ended up, uh, buying some property up in bold con. Have you been to Panama? Oh, I've heard about that. Global Khan is really very close to the Costa Rican border. And he raised cattle there.

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And at one point, his only son started a milk powdered milk factory. Remember the sit. Not Similac. What am I thinking? Um k l m N o little lock lock the i t a l a c. In any case, that the story is that when they travel from Panama up to Balkan back when our mother and her siblings, her five siblings were little they would drive us faras Navid, and go by horse back all the way up to golden.

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And at one point, our grandmother, Vita Elena very said Esko fairy scot free. She was pregnant with her youngest daughter, Emma, pregnant and going by horseback from David Tol Con, which now is an hour's drive. And so you can imagine by horseback how long it took.

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And these were very courageous people. I mean, adventurous and courageous to do that. And horses weren't air conditioned dealers. Yeah. Um, what else can we tell you about it? Don't eat that. Oh, wow. So they raised the five daughters and one son, and our mother was the third of the daughters.

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And since our grandfather was British, he sent most of the kids away to college to study. He worked very hard and provided for their ability. Thio oldest to went to England to study. And our our mother was a third. She was sent to the United States.

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So then Washington, DC Washington, D. C. George Washington University and tell them about their temple secretary of school and there. So that was part of it. She took courses at both places my way. That's where she met her father. But while she was there, she made quite a name for herself.

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Yes. You know, what years was she there? She was there in 1938 e think I was born in 43. She was married in 42. She must have been 39 40 41 that she was there. And of course, World War Two was really picking up speed. And so our dad was in Washington going to night school at G.

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W. So they met in Washington and they were married in Washington. And my mother was given away by the Panamanian ambassador. I was married at ST Stephen's Church in Georgetown, in Washington, D. C on the reception was at the Panamanian Embassy. But while she before they were you've been married.

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Tell her a story about how she made a name for herself. Oh, yeah, she after she finished school or while she was in school, she ended up being, um she took dictation from Eleanor Roosevelt. Oh, wow, for it was a sort of ah, internship sort of thing.

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So she was very excited about that. Anyway, that's a picture of her taking. Wow. Thistle is a copy from a newspaper. She was She was also What was it? The cherry blossom? Oh, she was also a candidate the queen of George Washington University on, And she also was one of the What did you call Princess who's a princess on the Cherry Blossom Cherry Blossom Festival on the floor?

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She was a Panamanian beauty. She really waas high school picture e. It was during that period that a dashing young man from Pennsylvania swept her off her feet in his gallant uniforms. He was an officer in the Army Air Corps. This is before the Air Force existed, and as such after, well, they parted company because of the war.

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Dad was sent overseas after they were married. He was sent overseas, and back then, of course, he got pregnant right away. So she went home to Panama, which is when I was born. A few months later, after she got Panama on, we lived with my grandparent's until my father came back from the war.

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I was almost three back then. You didn't see your I mean, they were separated for that long a period of time. And there were no psychologists that met with you when you got back, you just did it because they were very strong people. And it saddens me to think that I think we're getting softer and softer as the generations go by.

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But anyhow, we still have a pretty strong military, that's for sure. And he decided to settle down there after he got back. Yeah, he was actually transferred down there with the By that time, the Air Force came into being separated from the Army and there was an Air Force U S.

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Air Force. So he was transferred to Albert Air Force Base in the Canal Zone. Now, that would have been 1946 1945 because Joey was our oldest brother was born in 46. So it must have been the latter part of 1945. And, um, but he stayed and the inactive reserve the active reserve because I remember him putting his uniform on and because of the tropics, the uniforms were Bermuda shorts.

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But they still had the, you know, the bars and all the And so you got out of the active Air Force and went into the Reserve Air Force reserves, but continued working as a civilian before now the Army. But as the family grew, my brother Joe was born in 46.

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And then Malena came along in 48 8. And then Mike Fred came along, and then our youngest brother came along. But in the meantime, I think my father began to see that you would have to do something to get all of us through college. So he started a chicken farm in addition to his regular job, in addition to the regular job and the airport reserved, he had a chicken far.

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And that was unusual that people in the canal zone had a side business. Oh, yes, that's right. It was. It really wasn't. It wasn't prevalent it all very well, but he ended up selling eggs to the commissary. In fact, somewhere in need of the airlines and to the airlines, it was really quite successful.

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He had a partner. John Finlayson was also Azzoni in. But they bought that farm in 53 1953 size your overboard the year you were born. My gosh, I can't believe e wish we still had it now. Pat was so vital, so just booming. They sold it at some 0.70 74.

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So they had a good 10 years. 11 years was the farm in the zone itself. 2021 2021 83 to 74. 53 to 74. Am I saying? 21 years? Uh, the farm was not in the canal, so it couldn't be. It wasn't allowed. You couldn't have an individual business.

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Private enterprise in the canal zone. It was all government. It was either Panama Canal Company in Canal Zone government or U. S military or civilian civilian with working with the military, which is what he did when he got out of the Air Force. Then he went to work for the Army Transportation Corps, although he still had a obligatory two weeks a year, I think, in the Air Force.

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So then the five of us went through Balboa High School except for my youngest brother. By that time, our parents moved to California. So he went to high school in California. But the four of us graduated from Balboa High School on What was that like high school experience?

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Well, high school in the Canal Zone was fascinating because there was no competition in terms of fashion. Everybody was kind of the same, you know? So you didn't they? I think there was a lot of fashion wear slacks. You had to wear a skirt or a dress.

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Boys could not wear jeans remembering the canal zone. Everyone's got a job. Okay, there is no upper class and lower class, everyone's middle class. Sure, some people, depending on their position, made a little more. But they're essentially wasn't any distinction between classes. So everyone had I went to the same schools except for private school.

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Some people went to which we did. There was a Catholic school way for elementary for elementary school. And once you finish eighth grade, then there was only a public school. But during that time, when I was still in high school, our mother began the first FM and bilingual radio station.

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So this young Panamanian beauty went off to become very enterprising businesswoman, like my dad was also and the station was called TNT Caboose. What? TNT sample top network to e went off to college right after she began that business. And I would send her the 45 all the popular songs.

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I e mailed them home to her toe use at her station on the radio station. And she employed a lot of canals on kids, right? I wouldn't say a lot, but John Bateman, A couple of guys? Yeah. John Bateman. Yeah. They were employed in announcers. They made the advertisements, and then she play all these English tunes which became very popular.

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And what else? Oh, she was a great lady at the hospital volunteered was a great lady and she snuck out. Oh, Margo Font a was snuffed out was it was political chaos, a certain period of time. And she had to sneak out one of the politicians.

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His wife was Margot Fonteyn, the famous English ballerina. So she snuck her out. She also in the car under a blanket. Can you imagine her to a plane? So they put her on and get her out of the country. But I think the reason she was asked to do that she was employed by the Pan American newspaper and that was owned by a man named Armando Arias.

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Adi s family is very prominent family in Panama. But he was He was married to Margot Fonteyn, right? E wanted the audience. I'm not sure which one. And it was he, though. Her boss, who asked her to do this to sneak her out of the country.

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And one time she phoned me at school and said, Cart Gable is in town with his wife and he needs transportation from his yacht out on airport. Would you like to go? Do you think you would be permitted Thio? Get out of class to go to the airport, I said, of course, of course.

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And I went down the office right away and got permission from Marie. Were was the vice principal high school high school. I think I was a fresh manure, soft one. And so she picked me up first. Then we went over to the pier, found the yacht and picked up Clark Gable and his wife and one other couple.

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And I sat in the back seat between them. Clark Gable sat with his wife and mommy in the front seat, but we drove out to Tocumen Airport and I remember just being in office. Man, hey, was no answer. Um on I was all of 14 years old, and when when they left to board the airplane, I went over to where he had been standing with his leg up on a ledge and he had been flicking his ashes from a cigarette or a cigar.

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And I got the Ash E. And my mother dropped me off at the ball park near home on our way back, and I went up to everybody said, Look, these are the ashes that Clark gave away from his cigarette or a cigar or whatever. Anyway, she was always involved in something like that was amazing.

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What else? It's a life in the canal zone. It was great. It was fantastic. What are something unique things. There were two high schools, you know, alcohol, high school for so high school, about 50 miles apart. They were the rivals, um, junior College in the junior college.

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So our football league consists of 14 Athletic Club, which were guys that finished high school and went into The Apprentice program down there. The junior college Cristobal High School in Belleville High School Way you play each team about two times. So you had a season of six games way more that way.

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Had the palm bullet, the on. There was always the jamboree. We would take this rickety train that was awesome with Britain seats, and it would just show me all the way across the remember to go from Baba Thio, Pacific side of the business, crossing over to the Atlantic side of the assistance.

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We take this train and, you know, cheering on the train. And Molina and I were both cheer to use in high school. You just couldn't get enough of it, You know, so much fun. I mean, good, clean, wholesome fun. It's fantastic. I'm sorry. You guys lived on the Pacific side.

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Uh, what would you live in? Different before the first assignment where Dad was to all work, right. I'll work Air Force base. Then he was there. How long? Very short period of time. And then you moved aware. And then they moved to Karen Do heights. The lower level.

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I know. I was five. I had my fifth birthday there, and that was Army civilians. So it doesn't work for the army. Mhm. And then we moved to corrode do itself, which is when Joey was born. And then we moved to the Atlantic side, which we call the other side s.

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Oh, wait. That's where I was as where you were born. And then we moved that were on the Atlantic side. Kulik, Ford, Kulik. And there was a civilian section from Fort Gulick. I mean, the active military had the big concrete homes. We had these little, um, cottages.

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They were wooden cottages up on stilts. That was Gulick. They were in Fort Gulick for about two years, perhaps on their 1st and 2nd grade back to the Pacific side and then back to the Pacific side. And that's when we moved to new heights up on the hill that used to be called Christmas sides at Christmas time.

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What year did we move into Creative heights? I was in third grade. 51 8 1951 1951 way lived there until 1967 December 67. We moved left device left canals, left the canal zone and moved into Panama City. And you are essentially moving following your your father's jobs.

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Correct. And it's really interesting to me, the Atlantic and the Pacific side and the, you know, the other side and that kind of sentiment surrounding it. But were there any great economic or demographic or social differences that you guys really noticed? Moving between the sides was one side wealthier or the other side?

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Maybe a bit? Well, not now, although you might say that because the Pacific side had Panama City, which was more vibrant, had more cultural activities in being the capital that perhaps we drew. A lot of Panamanians who came to the high school attended the high school, either their parents, they paid a certainly had to pay tuition at the high school, but I think on the Christofle side there was less of that.

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There was less interaction with Panamanians. They didn't have the Panamanian enrollment Attn least the percentage because the city on the Atlantic side, Kalon, was not as affluent as Panelists, right? Yeah, totally different. If you've done any researchers studying, Hmm, I'm trying to remember a Sfar as the kids themselves.

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Now I don't remember feeling any difference. It's really strange. E think we were. I felt very fortunate to have a bi cultural type of upbringing because my mother, being Panamanian, we would go into the city a lot and spend Sundays with my grand parents and all the aunts and uncles and cousins.

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So we were raised with Spanish and English. Whereas I think a lot of American families that went to Balboa High School in Crystal Ball High School they didn't have that advantage. They were all Americans. And then the maids that they employed were from the islands, and they spoke English.

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That Beijing accent e don't know if that's the correct description of it or not. Asian Accent three Island accent. So in that regard there was when we were growing up down there, there was no drinking agent in the canal zone there. Waas. But not e this.

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When I went up, she had already started. She was. You were done with college in Washington, D. C. When I went to this minute e went no, this was before I graduated. I went up the summer before in 66 or 65 visited my sister and my older brother at Christmas time, where she was living just outside of Washington, D.

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C. Or in Washington, D. C. And it was a favorite bar in Georgetown that they all used to like to go to. So my mother said, Well, key, when you're visiting there, you're gonna wanna go with them. So let's go down the drivers division in Panama City and we'll get you a driver's licenses says you're 18 already.

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She did. She went down, gave the 20 bucks a licenses, said I was already 18, so I went to visit him, and I got to go to Georgetown and all Wow, wherever about that. And needless to say, when I went off to college, I still had that same editor.

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The 01 of the things I remember vividly about high school since I was the oldest one was that it was very hot. We had no air condition. So by the time I got to be a senior, there were a few of us that were really pushing for air conditioning on.

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And somehow we got it through the student association and in through the administration. And it was approved. We got air conditioning, doctor s. They were only window air conditioners. But nonetheless, you know, installing central air would have been costly, to say the least. And we would make a trip to the US every third summer because it was paid, the transportation was paid for Andi.

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I'll never forget seeing my first escalators because we had no escalators in Panama at the time and going back to Panama just being so excited about escalators and wondering When are they gonna put way? Would typically fly from Howard Air Force Base or already, or are up to Charleston, South Carolina, unload there and then usually get on a train in overnight overnight, train up thio either D c or go all the way up to Spitsbergen.

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Johnson all the way up. Thio, Detroit, New Jersey Our father, as we mentioned, had been in the military, but he came originally from Johnstown, Pennsylvania. He was one of 10, and two of his brothers or three of his brothers lived in New Jersey. So we would take the train up from Charleston all the way up to New Jersey, where he'd pick up a new car then and we'd go visiting his three brothers there and then trek across New Pennsylvania Turnpike to John's Town to visit Uncle Ben's.

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And then Thio Way had all our cousins convinced that we lived in the jungle in a tree house way played with all the animals. And, yeah, fun way water buffaloes down the canal to get the score a ridiculous way. Had such a great time with them stories every three years.

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That trip before we started flying from Panama to Charles ship, we would take a ship military sea transport service, STS always in New York. So that was quite an adventure on the Panama Online, not the Panama Line military transfer, MST s e. And then it was, um, a T s mats, military, air transport, service that because of Dad working for the Army.

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E do remember taking a trip to New Orleans on the S s crystal. Now, that was the Panama Canal line. Yeah, that was part of the Panama. So how were you entitled to do that? I have no idea. E. Remember getting seasick. And the pictures? Their pictures of the crystal, you know, down the museum e need to take.

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When I saw a picture of the museum, Joey and I Really And to prevent getting seasick yet to swim in the pool, there was a little bit cool about half the size of this room. Cool. You don't get sick. E did not get seasick e to my two brothers for it's who it was the three of us and dad, right?

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You, Joe and I and Dad, I'll be darned like sale with Mommy. We'll find out you are entitled to do that thing. I e I'm sure you've heard that everybody had made way. Were middle class way had made there were They sent people out to keep our long trimmed.

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Everything like that place was just immaculate. Everywhere you went in canals was immaculate. No trash were no homework E. It's quite a shock when you move up here. Of course, now the Canal zone has been defunct for the past 10 years. But one of the downside of that is they were so careful about eliminating mosquitoes that these DDT trucks would come through and we'd run out and play in this smoke list.

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Some of us would keep our head up above the smoke and we'll be running and you could see the limbs legs moving. You haven't heard. Are you running? E O, which is a chemical no longer used it zone obstructive and a lot of people have guide from lung cancer, and the suspicion is that it was attributed to that sort of thing in the canal.

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So we're going tomorrow. Oh, let's see what else I had written down things to do. There wasn't a whole lot of things to do. There were no amusement parks and things like that. You have every base had a theater, so we go to the theater, typically had a bowling alley way swimming pool, beach, Fort, Amador Beach, One beach on the Pacific side, specifically for zillions way looked up on the hill And we used to take cardboard and sit on the cardboard to go down the hill sitting on cardboard way Yes, Ideo getting the dust pan and putting that on escape and riding down the hill Oh, we're building our own You and Mary reading built a nice lightning s It was called a yellow lightning lack and lack with a made with skates on a dressing down that E Yeah, yeah, way Didn't get television until 19 fifties, 12 years ago Way finally got a TV set.

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Gosh, it's incredible. 12 way 1960. Oh, yeah, how And then when it began, it didn't come on the air until something like four o'clock in the afternoon and went off the air. 10 e, you started to ask. Oh, I was just wondering, just considering that the fact that the television wasn't available until 1957 and news probably didn't move as fast as it did today.

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How did stateside politics, um, kind of percolate through the Panama Canal Zone? Was it Were they heavily influential in the area, or was there kind of an absence of that? Definitely. There was a presence, definitely a present way. Got most of our news newspaper and movies Way movie.

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You went to the movies. You got the news before the film starts? Uh huh. And definitely the politics influenced us. I've had American newspaper. It was all in English and they carried a lot of news from the States. That's right. They had in English Edition that carried the news from the States.

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I remember what? Um Eisenhower? No. When Nixon was vice president to Eisenhower, he came to visit Panama and he rode the train and step stood at the last on the last car of the train, waving to everybody e remember that distinctly. You were there watching him way e think Dad and I made it together.

00:32:32.060 - 00:32:59.290

Or the school. That's what I was like, 7/7 or eighth grade at ST Mary's. And they took us the class toc him. So we had pools, theaters, bowling alley in the clubhouse. You've heard of the clubhouse? I don't think so. I prefer the word. I didn't really understand exactly what a cafeteria e going there.

00:32:59.300 - 00:33:21.340

Your french fries are vital. Oh, that was vital that you wanted to see anybody. If you want to see your crush or you went to the teen club that was always, well chaperoned. That was always a great band. Yeah, we hung out there. Way have our sports, baseball, civic leagues in baseball.

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Then each of the high schools have football track, baseball, basketball. Um, soccer didn't come along until many years later. Even after I left. Yeah, they didn't have gymnastics. No, they didn't have gymnastics. They didn't have that swimming. Of course. We get good swimmers. Yeah, And imagine playing football in the tropics all that heavy here.

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Yeah, the games would have to be at night with a big events. The football game. Oh, yeah. I think the my oldest brother, our oldest brother Joe, graduated 64. He was class president when the riots began. That eventually led to a new, uh, treaty and eventually, of course, the turnover.

00:34:11.740 - 00:34:41.140

But that began. A lot of it had a ripple effect. But I want to mention one last thing we used to do, and this was accustomed. I mean, we do this every way Christmas time, Christmas trees, Christmas tree Bond way would have a huge bonfire, but we formed teams and we were constantly stealing each other's eso where we lived down the hill from where we lived, there were old war war, too Bomb shelters.

00:34:41.150 - 00:35:00.840

So we restore our trees. Bombshell. Oh, my gosh on. And then the little group that I was with my older brother's group Guys that did the stealing of the trees and everything used me is the spy s. You know, I was a little thing, and I find out the other guys were there trees were they steal.

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And this went on all the time. Every team we tried to amass the largest number of Christmas trees And then at the ballpark. What night? Baseball park. They Everybody would bring your trees and a huge bonfire every single Christmas. We did that. I can't believe it.

00:35:19.640 - 00:35:35.870

And we hide them up on the roof. We hide them on. You know, the patio that weighed him on the roofs, hide anywhere we could think of a way, wanted to have the most time with ropes with cans on them. So if someone tried to steal them and you hear things like that is gonna pick you up?

00:35:36.840 - 00:36:01.230

Um yeah. Christmas tree competition over the other thing. I could remember living there on the hill we would. There was a ledge out of the between. The 1st and 2nd level of the house was alleged, and we would sit on the ledge on one side. Azaz the hill went up and around, came back down cold sec, and the policeman would come.

00:36:01.240 - 00:36:21.550

The military policeman would come every night to check, you know, and as they drove up, the hill would be on one side of the houses and we would yell out, What's the penny made out of? And soon as he came around the other side of the other group with the allowed cheap copper, that was a big thrill way.

00:36:21.550 - 00:36:49.350

We're being rebellious. Way live, this coldest AC we were talking about, um, during Christmas. It was well known throughout throughout all of the Canal Zone and Panama City to, and people would come from a farm in their cars because all of us in the neighborhood how many homes would have been about 12 way would put out decorations in our yards?

00:36:49.360 - 00:37:10.420

Um, which was something Mommy was really good at. Her mother painted very well, and she would make figurines. It's just, you know, 3 to 4 ft high, but all everyone in the neighborhood had different animal. I mean, the Myers has made there's motorized and animated way fake Isis.

00:37:10.430 - 00:37:27.740

It was plywood, but cut out in the shape of icicles, painted and painted with blue and white and sparkles. And everyone would hang them from the and with little ones would entertain themselves by with a notebook and pen and lie on the cycles. Each came, car came out.

00:37:27.740 - 00:37:57.860

We copy down the license plan, compared three other unique thing about that and all the decorating, all the decorations was that there was no hesitation to put out a Nativity scene. You know the problem. No problem with that whatsoever. In fact, our mother cut outs of figurines that represented the different races, and she painted them.

00:37:57.870 - 00:38:12.830

There was a little China doll. And then there was a little little black boy, has a little white girl with blond hair. And then the crash with the baby Jesus, and she painted them all and had a spotlight on them, and there was never any complaint about it.

00:38:12.820 - 00:38:31.350

Now you have to be careful of all of that sort of thing. Um, can you guys go into maybe the 64 riots and how that affected your family. Well, that's why I wish my oldest brother were here because, as I mentioned earlier, he was. He was a senior and I was a freshman that year.

00:38:31.350 - 00:38:55.430

So I remember you remember to, of course, remember what saddened me was that my mother's family took one side. And, of course, my father way took another side, and I could just remember so much sitting in our back porch. We could see the lights of the city and everything, and you would see fires that were started writing went on and everything.

00:38:55.430 - 00:39:15.740

And then the arguing would start between, you know, my aunt, my father or whatever. And it just that's when I'll never forget telling a high school friend of mine. I said, This is when I hate being bicultural because they're not getting long. Everybody's fighting with each other s o.

00:39:16.420 - 00:39:43.450

But it was. Joe should be here and to talk about that, it started innocently. Well, let's start hand got out of hand. Yeah, but we've also that the U. S. Government always has a presence on intelligence, President, presence in Panama and as such, um I worked for the CIA for a while.

00:39:43.450 - 00:40:22.940

When I graduated from college, I was a translator and was transferred. After working in Washington, D. C. I was transferred to the canal zone hard. Me and I had an undercover. Did you know that? E. I was Dona and I had I was the only one permitted to answer The red phone red phone was the informant calling into the office to report in a woman named Salman King Waas announce spoken communist and she taught at the University of Panama and I had to go out and take her payoff to her leaving at a safe house.

00:40:22.990 - 00:40:40.330

You know what a safe houses. Anyways, that's part of my life. I really wasn't supposed to talk about, but I think it's so far in the past now that the statute of limitations has passed. Yes, exactly. Thank you. How many years has it been that would have brought 19?

00:40:40.340 - 00:41:00.620

Six graduated 65 around. About what? 60 66 65 66 eyes that what Mr Dear Western was involved with? I don't remember that name. Dear Western lived up at the top of the hill. They had a son Barry. Oh, I remember, Barry, but I don't remember that e with.

00:41:01.010 - 00:41:17.240

But it was the only building in all of Fort Amador that didn't have any windows. That was the office. The CIA office. How could anybody not Guess that that was where the intelligence that was Where? Fort Amador in Fort Amador. Okay, you're gonna talk about the way.

00:41:17.250 - 00:41:42.030

That was another thing. That we just make our place in the world contractors way with little to do down there. One of the activities was going out to what we call the Causeway. It joined the mainland to three little islands. One of those islands where the beach was a very, very small beach.

00:41:42.040 - 00:42:02.640

Very small with a shark net. And, yeah, you just cruise out to the causeway and just hang out. And if you were over 18 trying to beer out there, you go out at night. Time to make out or whatever. Have gorgeous view of the city. They're beautiful.

00:42:02.650 - 00:42:22.650

Very. There was the city across the bay, you know, in the beautiful water, the moon out, the city lights and everything was market. You want fact? Yeah. It's all coming to an end I don't know what I don't understand. If the causeway was part of Fort Amador, how did civilians get out there?

00:42:23.400 - 00:42:44.150

Good day with the MP. Well, military police at the gate of Fort Amador allow we had access to the Army Navy Club, which was in Amador. Yeah, but I'm talking about civilians from hanging out. Oh, I don't know. Pan Canal civilians they used with. Obviously. They must have allowed.

00:42:44.670 - 00:43:05.820

Yeah, okay. E had 90 card. There was a checkpoint, a military, like a guard gate, a guard post based. But I think all they had to do was say we're going out to the causeway and they had to show an I d Possibly ondas long as they weren't Panamanian pan that looking back on it, that was very unjust.

00:43:06.400 - 00:43:26.810

But some Panamanians got through Dio you as one who have made it out of each all the time and do his exercise lollies. Father who and I would go out to Port Amador and well, so there were a few had some privileges. Some pool to be allowed on.

00:43:26.820 - 00:43:47.370

Get out to the bait. Out to the beach. What else? Where? The activities Monday night spaghetti night at Fort Amador. Officers all you can eat for 50 cents e. I would join my father crazy because I didn't like spaghetti. I always had to order the 75 cent um, triple decker.

00:43:47.370 - 00:44:12.710

What he called e. Bingo. My mom won a lot of bingo. Yeah, she had a lot of luck. That was also something of the officers club. Amazing. When did you guys end up believing Panama? The Panama Canal Zone? Well, each of the five of us left home to go to college way were sent to the United States.

00:44:12.710 - 00:44:31.140

Semper mike, our youngest brother, who moved to the States with my parents. And like we told you earlier, eso I left essentially in 61 after graduating from high school. But because my parents lived there and because we had Panamanian relatives there, I came back every Christmas and some breaks.

00:44:31.150 - 00:44:48.640

And then afterwards, less often. And then now more often. And you mentioned you went to college in D. C. I was a Now we're out of Washington. Okay. Was that transition difficult for you going from this kind of tropical environment? Frankly, yes, it was in that regard.

00:44:48.650 - 00:45:07.790

I remember my first snowfall. My roommate was from Aruba and we would run out. She hadn't seen Snow, either. The rest of the class that we're only 99 in my class, so the rest of class had seen snow, and they were like, What are you doing your PJs making angels in the snow and then walking into the cafeteria eating a snowball.

00:45:07.800 - 00:45:30.030

A follow. But the only way we communicate it was either letters or occasionally a ham radio. That's right. There were no cell phones. And to make a call from the Canal zone up to Maryland was it was very expensive. So occasionally someone came along and offered Thio hook up a ham radio call.

00:45:30.320 - 00:45:56.670

And other than that, it was. And it was during that period of time when I first started college in 61 that the Bay of Pigs in Cuba occurred and everybody was up in arms, that the Russians were gonna do something to help the Cubans, and I mean it was So I was a nervous wreck, and somehow one of my classmates, who lived in Maryland, not too far from the college, had a ham radio and her father said, bring her here and we'll help her communicate with her family because I didn't know what.

00:45:56.680 - 00:46:15.230

We couldn't talk on the phone. We couldn't do anything, and mail was too slow. So we really counted on ham radios at times like that. So then the next in line Joe left in 64 Malena left 67. I left in 71. And then the family left.

00:46:15.270 - 00:46:38.320

Our parents, which are younger brother, finally left in 74 74. We'd all set, settled down, Married way, settled down in the States. So they decided to even they settled down in San Diego, California? Yep. Daddy, how do you feel about turning over the canal? I frankly have always had very mixed feelings about it.

00:46:38.330 - 00:47:05.610

I think that probably the process should have started much, much earlier, and they wouldn't have had all that tumultuous period. On the other hand, I feel like I feel that pulling out of the canal zone and leaving all that infrastructure to Panama was rather unfair to the US They did not get recompensed for, um it's just an immense amount of infrastructure that that are now being used.

00:47:05.610 - 00:47:26.460

I mean, they're still functioning. They're still able to be refurbished and used eso. They're different aspects of it. How about you? I I did not like seeing us give up the defense of the canal and the running of it. I did understand. I don't think we're paying very much in rent to Panama.

00:47:27.300 - 00:47:54.200

And that could have been much more. Andi, I don't think we needed all that land was 500 square miles of land, which was basically jumped. But I just didn't think anyone who's gonna run and maintain the analogy efficiently as the U. S could Maybe I'm being proven wrong now, but you still go back and see some things that are in disarray.

00:47:55.980 - 00:48:17.160

Uh, Larry and I go down pretty often in recent years, and we've talked to several people down there who have told us and shown us that there it's just expanded immensely. If you go down, I don't remember the terms used for where all the containers go.

00:48:17.160 - 00:48:34.360

Now the site of Crystal High School is not no longer there. It's all containers, so ship traffic going through. I mean, that's proof that the traffic going through the canal has increased. However, as you cross the canal it when we crossed the Atlantic side of the canal.

00:48:34.360 - 00:49:16.680

I think it's the Peter Miguel Locks. You're crossing over at the level of the lock and you could see the apparatus that was built back in 1914 when it first opened. And I think what the U. S. Was there. It was maintained much more meticulously, whereas now if you could see the paint peeling off and you just didn't see things like that when we were there with Americans, North Americans, probably my feelings that yeah is also somewhat selfish because I don't have a hometown to go back to on and I wish it, you know, I'd like to be able to go back to my old high school.

00:49:16.690 - 00:49:39.730

Can't do that anymore. The house that I was raised in Creative Heights it's still there. But all that home for colored painted different colors, and they all have added their own little modifications to the house. It's not the consistent style. Everyone was a light green or greenish white painting.

00:49:39.920 - 00:50:00.000

It's just not what I grew up in. It was it was all government housing, obviously, So it's selfish in that way that yeah, I don't have what I used to know to go back. Thio Being from a multicultural family, does that affect your feelings about the turn over to the Capitol?

00:50:02.960 - 00:50:34.150

It's not as easy. It's not as easy to say. I don't think Panama could maintain it as well as the U. S could. You can't say that when you've got relatives that you're right and yet you know very well educated. A lot of them come to the states and get their engineering degrees from Purdue, Georgia attack many of our cousins, our Georgia Tech and Purdue graduates and went to Notre Dame and L s U.

00:50:34.160 - 00:50:55.350

So they're very well educated and the University of Panama has it. It's a good school, but I think Panama it's always been very multicultural, So trying to understand it from each perspective is very difficult. Difficult business opportunities have always been in Panama, not the canal zone.

00:50:55.350 - 00:51:30.390

But now the canal zone is known is no more so, Ah, lot of the Saudi Arabians and we've got a large Chinese population of Asians and they're very assimilated into the culture now, Um, but the question was, how has it affected us in your opinions about the turnover e agree with Fred that it's difficult to acknowledge that we don't have a home to go home to accept that we do still have relatives there.

00:51:30.390 - 00:51:52.840

So now when we go to Panama were in the city most of the time, and then we go up to the beach into the mountains, Way might know. People are just thio. Enjoy the toe, the environment up there. How did it affect you? How do you it heard in the beginning when when we first did it.

00:51:52.970 - 00:52:21.880

But now, looking at the results, I mean, it's what's growing like crazy and financially I'm doing. I mean, it's one of the wealthiest Latin American countries. So in the long run, it was a good thing. From the year 2000 until 2005, I was asked to be the president's, the president's liaison to Panama for the National Association of Realtors.

00:52:22.350 - 00:52:45.760

And in that capacity, I saw Panama just totally blow up. I mean, the immense amount of investors that came to Panama either for personal investment or to invest in businesses grew in leaps and bounds. I mean, I'm I just feel like I was personally witness to it.

00:52:45.770 - 00:53:18.570

So I mean, it was good for Panama. It's just said on a personal level, mhm. Tomorrow you're going to be interviewing Father Kennedy and Father. Father Kennedy was connected to our family in that, you know, for many, many years he was associated with ST Mary's Parish, and as such, with ST Mary's parochial school, which is where all of us went to grammar school and his friendship.

00:53:18.580 - 00:53:38.320

He was Oh, yes, he was very strong friendship with our parents and my mother in particular that he married when I was first married. 1968 He did the ceremony, And then uh huh. Then I tried. The next year, I tried to get him to marry me and my husband and he was going to be away.

00:53:38.330 - 00:53:56.120

That really hurt because I wanted him to marry anyway. So what happened? You married? Uh, my mother remarried when she was 70. Some things She married a Panamanian, and he did the ceremony for them. And then when my mother was very sick, he came and gave her the last.

00:53:56.120 - 00:54:15.750

All this was up here. All this was Florida, Florida. He gave her the last rites and Then I remarried after my father, my husband. After my husband passed away, I remarried Larry Corrigan, who is a big Zonin family devil in the Canal Za, and he came from Philadelphia down to Florida to marry us.

00:54:15.890 - 00:54:38.640

So he's been a family, really vital part of our spiritual lives for a long time. Social, too. He's quite social last night and he had to have a martini. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, maybe you can talk about the Catholic culture down in the zone. Was it prevalent?

00:54:38.650 - 00:55:02.440

Definitely. Well, Panama itself is a Catholic country, and there was a large percentage of Catholic parishioners in the canal Zone. But I would say, generally speaking, it was a Christian, a Christian group of Americans that lived in the Canal zone on, and there were Methodists and there was a united Church of Christ and there was a Lutheran church.

00:55:02.440 - 00:55:27.040

And there was that. Yeah, it was really a very, very good mix. But one interesting thing was the marriages in Panama between the Jewish faith and the between James and Catholics that much more than it did in the States on. I think it's because it was so small and you know, it's pretty fan of one knew each other and everything.

00:55:27.040 - 00:55:45.630

So it must be confusing to you, though, to hear us talk about the canal zone. But then panel, I mean, because there were to this very distinct culture. Culture is down there the Americans who lived in that strip of land called the Canal Zone and then the Panamanians.

00:55:45.640 - 00:56:06.030

So we're referring in reference to these marriages. The's in panel fate of marriages. That was panel itself. Yeah. Was there a Catholic school in the Atlantic Side? Yes, I went Thio ST Mary's Academy, ST Mary's Academy On the Pacific side. There was the one Catholic school, which also happen to be ST Mary's.

00:56:06.040 - 00:56:25.210

That's right. That's right. Storage. You could tell it was run by the sisters. The sisters? Well, first Francisco was the Franciscans. I had the Francisco I had him up until kindergarten and first grade for me on up. The Sisters of Mercy had a Brooklyn, New York, out of Brooklyn, New York.

00:56:25.220 - 00:56:49.950

How they arranged E don't know. It was very interesting, and they were there big white habits, and we had uniformity. Had to wear a tie, and again, do you think about the tropics. Why would we be wearing ties? But they brought that from New York. My name is is Everybody calls me Malena.

00:56:49.950 - 00:57:13.660

But it's actually Maria Elena Maria Donna on When the nuns arrived from Brooklyn, I was told by my teacher that I would no longer be Maria, that I would be Mary e O work. And it's merry Bremer E boy. It took them a while to finally settle in and adjust to the culture.

00:57:14.340 - 00:57:33.920

But had to be. That's funny. My real name is I was named after my mother. Deletes d a L Y s And the nuns couldn't pronounce the least They said Dallas E Oh, no, no, no, no, Don't Don't call me Dallas E But Fred was Fred and Jo's.

00:57:33.920 - 00:58:01.740

They call me Bob. Really? Um what else? Um, for us, I'll tell you what something else to do again because of my dad having the business. Not so much, my sisters, but I am my older brother. We spent a lot of our time Saturdays going out to the farm way had a lot of open fields, so we've spent a lot of time cutting grass, maybe mixing the feed for the chickens.

00:58:01.920 - 00:58:25.740

We know, pick a great group and they come back to the canal zone and I walk around the canals, our neighborhood with a burlap sack collapse, act grapefruit and sell them three for a nickel. Um, because we had one time we had a lot of pineapple, but I think that was a couple of years before me.

00:58:26.560 - 00:58:53.330

In the field of across the creek was a big field pineapple with cashew trees. Get up, trees get up trees. The horses, horses, six horses. 1.1 point. We had six horses. What else could we tell you? How is the transition coming back to America for your parents?

00:58:54.420 - 00:59:17.970

Good question. It was tough. It was a difficult transition of I think that my mother never dreamed that she'd be moving from Panama to the United States permanently after leaving her parents behind and her siblings behind, and all the nieces and nephews and then my dad.

00:59:18.440 - 00:59:36.530

He was happy about moving back to the stage because he was originally from Pennsylvania. But it was difficulty in that they decided to move to California because at the time I was the one who had granted who had Children. So they're only grandchildren. I was living with my husband, who at the time was with the FBI.

00:59:36.920 - 01:00:04.340

We were living in San Diego, so they moved to San Diego and their marriage basically fell apart. So in that regard, it was difficult. It was kind of like, Well, the beginning of the end. Well, the other reason to she closed down the radio station because of, uh, Torrijos Torrijos, the dictator that came before Noriega.

01:00:06.210 - 01:00:27.710

That's why she closed down radio station that she was able to It was easier for her to leave. Was that done? Because they kept trying to tell her what she couldn't could not put on the radio. I didn't know that. But I'm surprised that none of us stayed to work down there.

01:00:27.710 - 01:00:40.150

Out of the five of us, Fred was the only one who married a Panamanian. But they lived in the States. All this? Yeah, but I married. Went up here in the States you met, met her after in the States. And that's right. I got married here.

01:00:40.910 - 01:01:03.910

All right. I don't know if I felt comfortable enough with the Spanish language to have stayed down there and done business in town. But now you would, I don't know. Yeah, you know, I would because everyone down there speaks English way. Get along just fine. Way all speak Spanish, but you're much more fluent in the rest of us way.

01:01:03.920 - 01:01:20.120

My brother, our youngest brother, is very influenced. The one who left at 14. He is the most flood way we all. But mine is just conversations matter. So I would never dream of going into business down there because it's a different vocabulary. Probably the way you feel.

01:01:20.130 - 01:01:47.850

It's not me. My father was. Our father was from German parents, German American parents and, uh, Malena and her husband had the opportunity to live in Germany for quite a while for two tours, two tours of duty, right? Hey was West Point graduate. But I was in Germany a couple of years ago, and I thought I should feel comfortable with this language.

01:01:47.850 - 01:02:23.390

And in Panama we were only exposed to Spanish, English and occasionally French because our grandmother, well, but at home, Dad would try to teach us. We all learned how to count Count Way All learned the little. There were little Children's songs we had learned German I do for Pan am back in the dark ages when you couldn't be married when Pan Am was vibrant, Uh, a Pan American world here anyhow, occasionally they would ask me to read the German announcement because I knew enough German that I and they had the translation right there.

01:02:23.390 - 01:02:48.630

But you had to read it in both languages. So I think back on that that was a different person because I can't imagine it in such a guttural language. It was so different, Very different E. So can you review those questions that we touched on everything?

01:02:49.100 - 01:03:18.240

Wow. How did you interface with the U. S. Military in the Panamanian people? Pretty much faced with way had our teams love affairs and games or football games. And then And we also had our cousins and aunts and uncles in Panama City. So we go to their birthday parties, and Malena and I were asked to be debutantes.

01:03:18.240 - 01:03:36.780

So each made our debut in Panama City. I ran from Miss Panama one year when I was 17. They found out that I wasn't gonna be 18 until after the deadline. So although I made it to the final 10. I was booted out because I was six days too young or something like that thing.

01:03:36.780 - 01:04:03.510

I was offered a theater scholarship to study until they found out that stay. I wasn't 100% Panamanian. I lost e whatever apology I was gonna go to. They were going to give me E started a theater major when I came up and State, But I lost scholarship when the man who was gonna give it, uh, realized that he said, No, no, I'm only giving them toe.

01:04:03.590 - 01:04:24.460

Well, you are a half breed is after you. No way were to talk about prejudices. I think the only time I felt prejudice against us was when when somebody was from an American family in the canal zone discovered that our parents were mixed American and Panamanian.

01:04:24.470 - 01:04:51.600

It was almost as though Oh, you're one of them. I was called to speak. Everyone's. Occasionally I have heard that name Big deal with me. Everybody, you know, wears just a politically correct restored sticks and stones. Did you ever feel that way? Uh huh. We all come from a little bit different perspective now.

01:04:51.610 - 01:05:09.000

So many years. Last month or two months ago. Um, our youngest brother, who lives in California, is turning 50 this year. So the rest of us Joe, who is not here with us in the three of us we flew out to California and spent five days for them or four days with them.

01:05:09.000 - 01:05:28.250

No spouse is allowed. No Children allowed way had a wonderful, wonderful time. It was a blast. Looking over my mother's let our letters that my father had said to my mother during World War Two, my mother kept them and we were reading through them, looking at old pictures.

01:05:28.260 - 01:05:56.650

Just fantastic. Yeah, part Wake me up for that part. I reached out on that. You were asleep asleep. A old cookie. A red Square. Yes. Keeps a letter. He's in the film industry, and we keep thinking that someday he'll get all these letters together and write up a script for it.

01:05:56.660 - 01:06:35.210

We'll see it on the lifetime television. Mhm. Beautiful Adams. Anything else? Oh, your holidays celebrated. Oh, Thanksgiving. My mother always have Thanksgiving dinner for our family. And now her family celebrates Thanksgiving. Yeah, that way would have our Thanksgiving dinner and wait. And parents and edema my mother's youngest sister, and she was born 13 years after the fifth child was born.

01:06:35.210 - 01:06:51.720

Along came my Aunt Irma. So she's close to my age and Mommy's, her godmother and Mommy's got. So that's why she was always invited with Alito or by her husband well by herself before she was married and then with Alito after she was married. And now they carry out the tradition.

01:06:52.010 - 01:07:20.050

So, generally speaking, the Panamanians would not celebrate. That's an American holiday. But now our side of the family Panamanian side of our family is celebrating. So that's kind of thing. Christmas always went to eat this house to get bad afternoon on Christmas Day, go to our grandparent's house in Panama City, get share eggnog, and she made the best eggnog.

01:07:20.060 - 01:07:48.200

You have no idea it was delicious. No, no, no, that's hard. That hard stick gets white that was made of almonds. It's gotta wait for. On top of it, cracks was they were word for it in Spanish to something like that. Remember that? I must not have liked it very much.

01:07:48.350 - 01:08:17.440

July. We always had the parades elbow. Yeah, the Shriners and that's right, came out with their little buggies report. July was always celebrated, Remember they didn't. Didn't they do fireworks in Panama City and we would watch them from the back at the stadium that we would watch them from the back of our yard for the back of our house overlooking Panama City?

01:08:17.450 - 01:08:41.480

Unfortunately, up on the hill and the stadium was right on the other side of the boundary between the Canal Zone and Panama Way, July or the Panamanians. But way do our own kind of neat. I'm not even sure if we did. You did they? Were there any organized firework displays in the Canal Zone at the ballpark?

01:08:41.480 - 01:09:04.540

In corrective? Yeah, I remember sparklers because the only thing Dad would let us handle New Year's was a big thing at the Tivoli. Oh, that was so much fun. Yeah. Big deal with the hotel in the canal zone. That was the place to go for New Year's Eve.

01:09:05.630 - 01:09:29.790

It was a wooden structure, wouldn't you? Everything. Not that damned if there is a very elegant I'm sure someone else has mentioned it or Yeah, you're definitely dance music was exuberant that you could feel the the floor and we were Jimmy Days. We were teenagers and we were celebrating is though we were 2020.

01:09:29.790 - 01:09:55.750

Agree on Nobody said anything. Big deal. The drinking age was 18. But if you in the canal zone. So if you were junior senior in high school Bond, you could drive. You just go into Panama City on do your drinking because they're basically, If you could pay for your drink, you could reach a quarter upon the bar.

01:09:55.780 - 01:10:21.380

If that's what amazed me when I came to the States to go to college. Waas a date in Panama. Waas You went out to move, went to dinner, you went to a movie and then you went to the Hilton Hotel to the bar where they always had music and you ordered your drink and there was a casino and we could go in and gamble in the casino came to the States and I thought, Holy cow, What do these kids dio?

01:10:21.760 - 01:10:45.000

They go, they go toe. Ah, hope tow a boat. I don't want your son to listening to this. Think a motel room to sit around and drink just to drink. There's no, uh, and that really that blew my mind that just totally blew my mind. It's almost asses, though, when you have too many restrictions.

01:10:45.010 - 01:11:02.750

You don't want tour to a point where you can handle those things that were so prohibited. Certainly so when all of a sudden you're permitted to do it, it's every they go gangbusters go overboard. That's how it seems. And that's how it seems. E Still little.

01:11:02.750 - 01:11:23.520

Yeah, just a little A. Because we were allowed, we were allowed to drink at home. My parents would give me beer because when I was very, very little, I was very, very skinny. And they said beer would fatten me up. So even as just a child, give me about that much in a glass every day.

01:11:23.520 - 01:11:43.690

Just a little bit of beer toe put some weight on me way We'd have wine every for special dinner. Thanksgiving. We would have wine with dinner, I So it was a real shock to go off to college and find out that Yeah, I remember Daddy and Mommy would have happy hour out on the porch on.

01:11:43.690 - 01:12:03.330

Dad liked his Manhattans, and when I was a senior in high school, he asked me, Would you like me to fix you in Manhattan. And he did E. But I sat with them. Yeah, drank it slowly, like a nice young lady would. Dio e was part of our culture down there.

01:12:04.750 - 01:12:29.090

Yeah, but our culture, because it was because we did have a Panamanian side, was different from most Americans. Race in the canal. So I think I mean, I'm sure there were many other families where one parent was Panamanian. One paragraph American. So when did you? Yes, E Hope we've given you enough material.

01:12:29.890 - 01:12:59.180

E you've heard about E did in 1998. When you were way. I was just gonna turn 50. And I better do it now, because isn't that incredible? Yeah. That's a vote for the Panama Canal. I think that was a Did you have? How old were you when you did it?

01:13:01.910 - 01:13:24.750

Girls were not to do it because it was sponsored by the explorers. Explorers counts. So it was an all male competition. What? In the seventies eighties? I don't know. One day we're going girls state and boys State is something that you guys had. They had gone by the time I was kidding.

01:13:25.420 - 01:13:44.660

This is that they have that appeared to girls girls date boys state. It was It was It was very educational. Held usually over spring. Break our Easter vacation. Yeah, you're making And you had to have a certain G p a to be permitted to go or to be invited to attend.

01:13:44.670 - 01:14:06.800

And you learned about state government. By the end of the week, you had elected a governor. A secretary of state said, you know, Attorney General? Yeah. Way were allowed to go anywhere else. We were stuck for one whole week learning about government. It was a fabulous program.

01:14:06.810 - 01:14:33.860

Very, very good. Very benefits from the scouts were down there. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts E um what else? I don't know what they need. The room time flies when you're having fun golf. Take down their golf was very big fishing baseball and the V f w baseball and all the different baseball league.

01:14:34.340 - 01:14:57.080

And they have sponsored DFW. Remember Joe going around to sell detail that you would put on your bumper car for every dollar? $2? And that's how they raise money. Thio. Send the team to the States. That's right. That's how we got to the state competition E football.

01:14:57.090 - 01:15:25.630

You know who led the VHS in in touchdowns in 1970? I was gonna say, Gary nous seven. You did way asked me how many touchdowns way were doing that badly. Oh, my God. You mean crystal ball beat you up? Even the one game I made a touchdown, we lost.

01:15:26.160 - 01:15:52.610

That's incredible. And there was against Crystal. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, well, my sister brought copy of stock in the French canal. A French pan off. Now, that's what the stock look like, But I guess the museum has one. Yeah. Did we give you enough joint way?

01:15:52.620 - 01:15:56.260

Fantastic. Thank you so much.