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My name is Diana Dombrowski. Today is July 8 2011. I'm here with Bill and Carol Hemmings at the Panama Canal conference in Orlando, Florida. If I could ask you both first, uh, when you were in the zone To what years? From 46 until? Well, really? Until I graduated from high school in 61.

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Okay, E was there 68 or 69? Mhm. Right. And how did you and your family or come to be in so way met 1968 in the Miami airport. General Torrijos had just pulled his coup off and change governments, and we didn't quite know what we were applying into.

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For some reason, Braniff Airlines put us up in the first class. I was flying military hat fair, and somehow she got on a student. I haven't figured that one out. Your imagination I was not flying is a student. But anyway, we wound up in first class next to each other, and there was some engine trouble.

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So they got. They evacuate the tourist class, but less the first class people aboard, which we were just about the only ones and serving the champagne, Scotch. And so forth. So I started talking this little girl next to me. Oh, you know, full uniformed soldier. And this little lady sitting next to me had a blanket over knees.

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I thought you'd crippled on. So I was being very nice and so forth. E didn't think you were going to get into that. She hadn't reminded me that we may not be able to get into Panama proper because there had been cool guardian seize power and she wanted me thio take care of her until her parents got there to the airport or something happens when we get back to the zone or landing.

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So something I knew that he evidently didn't. Is that when there's any kind of revolution or coup and Panama, the last thing the take the party taking over wants to do is mess with the U. S. Military. So a soldier in uniforms would would be really good protection if things got if he So I was very nice to him.

00:02:32.450 - 00:02:53.740

That's right. Ways to say we're pretty, well, soccer. By the time we landed in Panama on I looked out the door. There are all these armed guys out there, uh, seems like to me. I walked off the plane pushing her in front of me shield. She swears it was the other way around on.

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Unfortunately, Carol's parents had been able thio, get to the airport. Things were pretty stable by then. Gave me a ride back toe who's on two. And so we were able to get back and I'd managed Thio get her name and we haven't specific side of Panama.

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There weren't a lot of Atlantic side. I mean, Atlantic side. There wasn't a lot of single eligible females around here, allows bachelor, and, uh so I called her up and started making a date. She come down to visit her parents. She was getting ready to move to England.

00:03:38.660 - 00:04:04.670

Thio give up on states or something. It's gonna be there month on. I just so happen to have a little sports car and a very flexible schedule. And for a day or two, she was born a sec two so on, uh, we really had a nice month touring, and it was the month of Christmas to I'll never forget it.

00:04:05.390 - 00:04:40.440

We went Christmas, Caroline Panama in the Canal Zone and Margarita Margarita and worth the dudes overhead in the space capsules. I couldn't believe it. I don't remember that. But 68 had to be the end of 68 astronauts were over Getting ready Get ready for the moon episode Just so surreal in Panama singing Christmas carols and Margarita, it's, uh yeah, that was that was nice.

00:04:42.640 - 00:05:07.330

But then I'd come down on the, uh H U H U S s Sturgis, which had been a converted Liberty ship left over from World War Two, been converted by Martin Marietta. They'd taking the propulsion system out in place and put a 10 megawatt electrical nuclear reactor.

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Pressurized water turned it into a floating reacted reacting. This was the world's first. It was more of others. Yeah, R and D under the Army program, U S. Army Engineer Reactor group. And this was a tri service organization. Native Army, navy and Air Force personnel. The Army operated had a bunch of plants.

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Small plants, more as they are D type plants. We have one down, Kartika, one in head one in Greenland. I want to Alaska one of Sundance, Wyoming, E 14 bell, Vortec, Virginia In this floating one, which was trying to prove a concept that has been very relevance.

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For, like, the Japanese disaster today be ableto a generator. Big generating capacity plant docket next to the disaster area and feet in the electrical wives. And you have power problems they had in Japan. They lost power for days and days and days. Yeah, so anyway, the canal had been experiencing drought and canal pan.

00:06:23.370 - 00:06:45.830

Canal needs water to work, goes hydraulics. And so electrical power for the Panama Canal has been provided, uh, extensively by the dam down a u turn. All the power was hydro electric, okay? And so they I wanted to save the water, not use the hydro power.

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So that's the reason we don't bring this reactor down there, doesn't take water and just, you know, yeah. So we brought her down, told her down April 68. Yeah, crew came down about 45 of us, I believe when the crew on nuclear operators I was health physicist, also strange nuclear operator.

00:07:09.850 - 00:07:42.320

But I got the job of environmental monitoring, which which meant that I would take water samples around the boat sediment samples from underneath the boat. Then I would go out in the jungles and Garrett gather biomass fish, things like that. Then I'd go out on the lake and catch fish and so forth, ash him down and do radio a lot of psychological analysis of the samples and then said that report every month and a reporter and so forth like that.

00:07:43.080 - 00:08:06.520

Bottom line, he got to spend his days hunting and fishing in the canals that sounds around the lake. It was the ideal job in the Army. In fact, the big picture this was program put on by the U. S. Army back in the sixties seventies actually came down and filled me one of the more interesting jobs.

00:08:06.530 - 00:08:29.610

Thank the signal photograph was me sitting on him appear with confession poll, But the easiest job in the Army with it was quite nice. And then Carol left after a month and went back to England Onda. A couple months later, I was due to get out of the Army.

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I've been in eight years and it's time to get out, and, uh, so I decided to take my leave time, and I went to England to see her and went over for a couple weeks and came back to Panama and the Army and guaranteed my right toe drive back up from Panama through Central America.

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Give me enough time to do it. So time came, they let me out and I drove. Gotta drive all the way up through Social American back to Texas to get out of the Army in 69. It's really for May. Back then, it was a different world out there, but it s so it it was.

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It was an interesting tour and working on the reactor and everything and things worked fine for us. Interesting story happened after. Okay, that's when they think it's 74. Somewhere around house, out of the Army, lost contact, but deep that shut her down the actor and was going to take her back, uh, stakes.

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So they had a small crew on board, just watchman and so forth had to be towed by tugboats. It was just a big liberty ship Power. Yeah, and they were advised against it because it was hurricane season. But they went ahead and did it anyway. And there was a big storm off cape patterns.

00:10:03.330 - 00:10:23.420

North Carolina, South Carolina, which keep it doesn't matter. One of Caroline's and really bad storm in the I had to cut the tow boats loose because it was about I thought the ship was gonna sink. And with taking boats down with it, they brought in helicopters.

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Get through Off on, uh, it's murder. Last man got off ship rolled over to its side, and I thought for sure it was gone. But somehow she derided yourself. Later on, they were able to connect the tow cables up again. Get her in with ship was severely the energy of the ship.

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The reactive portions inside were severely damaged. I've never used mhm. That's the last I heard that she was on the mothball fleet up in James River. Just but mm. Somewhere there anyway, if they haven't decommissioned, Yeah, anyway, approved the concept that you could build a floating nuclear reactor and it could be towed someplace and hooked up.

00:11:12.280 - 00:11:34.280

So But then, uh, they didn't pursue them. It was research development. I understand now the Russians were actually doing it building floating things for disaster. Just storm in that Bucky got power. A massive amount you don't have around the fuel oil. What would have saved Fukushima, wouldn't it?

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Yeah, Yeah, well, but anyway, that Z thing about that, most people don't wait. Don't talk about it. You know, it's not like it's top secret, Everything so they don't. It's just not something flash out. So the nuclear reactor came down in 68 provided electricity for the zone until 79.

00:12:00.220 - 00:12:31.370

Somewhat of a seven e handed over. Okay. You know, probably probably damn near decade. Wow. No, it was the one. Fuck. Yeah. And you mentioned his. Your job was pretty unique. Like you're the only one doing that. Okay. Wow. You really are floating nuclear plants. Yeah, during that time, but it wouldn't stop.

00:12:32.940 - 00:12:58.350

Sat down and get tune Lake right next to the dam. I go down there. E don't know if you were from a with well, a bit a bit. Where the damn waas brought along their way base the ship bargain supposed to college. Did you notice any drastic environmental effects?

00:12:58.390 - 00:13:25.160

Well, there seemed to be a slight build up of cesium underneath the ship for a while because the yes moss on the bottom of this acting is a filter for our floods, which you're allowed by law to let small amounts of of contaminated materials go out, a certain is measured.

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He can't go above a certain level with the intent that it just disappear out gets out in a big environment. We have our exit point. There's a lot of moss e Guess it liked radiation e. Probably like the heat it up, but we had to keep Moss out there.

00:13:47.070 - 00:14:11.650

L said. Jack is a filter and concentrate minute amounts within limits. But it was It was noticeable. That was my job to pick up any slight variations reported so way institute program to get rid of the moss and a that was the only thing I ever picked up was weird, so I was operated totally with him.

00:14:12.640 - 00:14:36.600

The prescribed legal lines could we worked. We were expected by the nuclear regulatory back then, the Atomic Energy Commission and so everything we said and it had to be true. Or else, you know, not only subject military, but federal government, everything and other laws pertaining to your powers way.

00:14:36.600 - 00:14:58.740

Didn't you know it's nudging figures there they were all what we saw. Basically I had to sign it so nobody knew what I was saying. That's it It was fine. Everything was on the up. Okay, Good crew. Excellent. So the reactor was able to provide electricity for the entire zone.

00:14:58.830 - 00:15:20.730

Or was it supplementing? You know, it probably was supplemental because we had to bring down another barge. One nuclear. This was a gas turbine, high speed gas turbine and brought that down. Put it on the other side of the canal on detached. A small detachment toe work.

00:15:20.740 - 00:15:44.750

Work that, uh So between them, they provide a large percent of power. E can't give you accurate. Okay? Yeah, the actual power production I wasn't Do you have with too much Randy Deakins would know. Yeah, because he worked on the dam. You know how many megawatts they generated?

00:15:44.760 - 00:16:19.490

Yeah, There were two dams Matt Madden and Mattoon. So the other one would have been hooked up, but Madden we could tune. Game was when they were worried about because that was when they lost the water with They couldn't use it for the walks. Smoking basically stand there having problems again with lack of rainfall, about building that 3rd, 3rd dogs will be interesting.

00:16:21.170 - 00:16:37.990

Wow. Well, the questions that I had prepared you both can answer. But your answers will probably be different. Um, What? We're living conditions like for you When you were in this zone, Where did you live? You know, that sort of thing? That's probably more relevant for me.

00:16:38.000 - 00:17:08.570

Okay, we went went down in 46 shortly after the war ended, and because I was too. So I don't really remember much, but I couldn't remember my mother complaining a lot about not being able to get fresh, fresh food. At one point, my dad bought a bunch of live chickens because the e guess the meat was so bad.

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So they got chickens it and kept him in a coop behind the house. And he was a farm boy. So when they wanted chicken, he went out and killed a chicken just to have good, good meat. And, um so and it was hard to get fresh milk.

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They remember they kept trying to give me powdered milk, and I wouldn't drink it. Klim. Yeah, I've heard that you probably heard about Clinton when alot of us who were kids would remember. It was nasty, but somehow they did get fresh milk. E don't know how.

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Um yeah, so e don't know. We I never had my own bedroom till I was seven. I think the part A lot of people lived in very small quarters, and I was an only child. So when I say my own bed, there were in one bedroom, apartment seven.

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Um, but that was typical. Nobody. All right. Um, yeah, but it was It was nice. Did you live in a multifamily housing? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, no. Unless you had a really big family. You didn't get single family housing until you had been there. Maybe 10 years.

00:18:48.500 - 00:19:18.740

It was all by service. How long you served? So we removed. We were there from 46 to 51 then I'm okay. Is it okay to just jump around here from 50? What? When we went there, every every little town had its own dispensary with a doctor and a T least one doctor and dentist and pharmacist, and my dad was a pharmacist.

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And so, in 51 they closed all the little dispensaries and moved everything to coca solo hospital in Gorgas Hospital. So they laid off a lot of doctors and dentists and pharmacists and whoever had least seniority was the first to go. And that was my dad. In the case of Coakley, we lived in Coakley.

00:19:41.740 - 00:20:05.750

So we went back to the States for three years, and then they called him up and said, You want to come back? And he said Yes. So what, was I going with that anyway? Yeah. So the whole time we were there were first we were in a 12 family, which my mother always called a bat roost.

00:20:05.760 - 00:20:30.490

12 family bat roost. She hated it. And it was basically just a single room. Just a big like a studio apartment with little, you know, little divisions between living bedroom, kitchen, front to back. I couldn't feel shotgun houses. Um, so we were there for E. I don't even remember how long.

00:20:30.490 - 00:20:54.010

Maybe a year. And then we moved to a four family house that had a separate bedroom and living, dining and kitchen. So and then we moved to after I guess after daddy had been there about five years, we were able to move to a two bedroom for family apartment, bigger and bigger.

00:20:54.200 - 00:21:16.130

And that's when we left. Okay. And then when we came back with went to. We were on the Pacific side, and when we came back, we went to the Atlantic side When my dad was a Coca Cola hospital and then we had a big house. E guess, get tuned.

00:21:16.130 - 00:21:40.460

Wasn't so much in demand because we had 33 bedrooms and big port shoes to family. Okay, so Mama was much happier with that. E heard the Atlantic side was a little less populated or more Girl was not the case. Okay. Yeah, yeah, probably. We'll give him the Balbo.

00:21:40.460 - 00:22:12.000

I had about three times as many kids in the graduating classes we did. Must have been about three times as many people over there. That specific side. Okay. Yeah. So Okay. Okay. Let's see what else we live there to weigh. Dio stories came down. I was in the barracks of Fort Sherman in Panama.

00:22:12.230 - 00:22:35.670

Yeah, sure. I never shouldn't. No Davis. Davis. Davis? Yes. Sherman was across the canal in the Davis, went to Davis and then living in the barracks there. And then some of us got together and was able to get the vacation housing. When the canals on people go back to the States, every a couple of years.

00:22:36.040 - 00:22:53.260

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Vacation. We lived in vacation quarters when we first went to the Atlantic. So take a couple months off so often go back to the States and they need somebody. Watch the place you gotta pay. Take care of the dog. Paid two months vacation every, I think every two years.

00:22:54.200 - 00:23:23.140

And yeah, people would run out their house. Eso then two other buddies, Army buddies took over one and American too. The e party time. Uh, of course you couldn't do anything in zone, especially on the Atlantic. Cited so small and everybody knew who you were just about or something like that.

00:23:23.140 - 00:23:48.180

So you had to be somewhat civil and law abiding. Sorry. Yeah, the canal zone Police did not tolerate a lot of nonsense. No, they did not. They didn't tolerate me. Well, I dare say way had our peace so well, you know how not to get caught anyway.

00:23:48.540 - 00:24:11.450

Wow, It sounds like there's a couple of it, but he wasn't that bad. And I was almost arrested by Noriega. It's still I think he was that Well, that was in Panama. Cologne, Cologne. I think that one, uh when Tories took over, Uh, closed. All the judges were supposed to stay on in the zone.

00:24:11.460 - 00:24:29.770

We're supposed to go out about him proper. It was off limits. Course. That was just incentive for me to go into Panama. Say, don't go. I'd run into some friends of mine high school friend who's contracting down in his own doing, working on some of the housing.

00:24:30.640 - 00:24:50.600

I had met him at a bar. And then the police came in and I swear to the Guardia guy. Officer was Noriega. Yeah, yeah, he was with the militant American Military Police. Of course, they civilians got to get out and I got corner E ever gonna bust me.

00:24:50.610 - 00:25:08.410

Are you in uniforms? No. I was in the cities and just happened. A young lady. It was a table. Do somebody and talk talked him out of it or something. Like let me get out the back door. The other guy with court martial. Oh, really? Yeah.

00:25:08.420 - 00:25:37.460

Wow. So e wasn't really bad. Mine two weeks restrictive quarters or something like that. Still, Yeah, that's Panama. I was interesting times. Where did you grow up? Texas. Okay. Used to the heat green e love the fishing was great. Fish. Wildlife was wonderful. I had to go out.

00:25:38.440 - 00:25:58.750

See the Cayman and everything else. There were some of the jungle areas I went through. Are Gators every kind of snakes there? I don't know that I ever saw one, but there were supposed to be several kinds of living under the doctor. Used to water ski from nobody.

00:25:58.750 - 00:26:29.260

Really worried about it. Well, good. Okay. I'm glad they didn't really bother people. Mhm. Yeah. What was your school experience? Like school. Yeah. Uh, school. Okay. You said it was miserable. Well, that was I would have been miserable anywhere. Um, so I don't know if that's relevant.

00:26:29.270 - 00:27:01.280

One thing. I went to Cristobal High School and there were Let's see, what year was that? 50? Yes. 59 or 60. There were riots in in Panama, and I remember way were bussed through colon to get to high school because high school was in New Cristobal, which is surrounded by a salon.

00:27:01.640 - 00:27:25.130

That's and I don't remember being real nervous about it myself, but I remember my mother being terrified for me to be going through driving through Panama at that time. And there were there were days we couldn't go to school because of the riots. Wow. At least that's That's the way I remember it.

00:27:26.240 - 00:27:53.780

Way got out of school. There were riots in Colombia. Um, other than that build crystal ball high was it was a beautiful building. Remember that they had court. There were two big courtyards with palm trees. And somebody brought in a big bowl of constrictor for And we had him in the biology classroom.

00:27:54.140 - 00:28:13.280

Cools at all these six or 8 ft and one of the one of the girls formed a real relationship with the public. They were She was the main one who took care of him. They were very close. She used to taken out in the patio, and he I say he I don't know.

00:28:13.290 - 00:28:34.460

Snake. Hey, would go go up in the palm trees and enjoy the fresh air, which is probably not your typical high school experience. It sounds a little dangerous. Yeah, he didn't bite her once. He he um but it was just a scratch on her cheek. Remember that.

00:28:34.470 - 00:28:57.670

Okay, but they you know, it wasn't big enough toe to tackle the human being. Uh, it's probably about what's that about three inches in diameter and six or 8 ft long. Okay. Yeah, because he was taller than a height of a man. A grown man, sir.

00:28:57.680 - 00:29:17.360

Hmm? 6 ft. Yeah. Besides, the one I was gonna jump out of the car captured for you. You said it was a Bushmaster and kind of frozen there. Came back into the car That that reminds you of another funny story from my childhood. I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're interested in it.

00:29:17.370 - 00:29:50.960

But since I say my dad was a pharmacist at the little local dispensary and the doctor there was, I guess I don't know. But he had been out drinking somewhere one night. There was a lot of drinking in the canal. So a lot of alcoholism. And so which is not to say that I don't know, you know, I just know he was out drinking that night and probably shouldn't have been driving on the way home.

00:29:51.340 - 00:30:13.860

There was this big sloth by the side of the road on and in his state. He thought it would be really fun to get the sloth, and he took it, wrapped it in a sheet or blanket or something that he had in the car and threw it in the back of the car, brought it home and put it on the dresser thistles.

00:30:13.860 - 00:30:44.730

The story I heard from probably from my dad said, puts this big thing on the dresser on the sloth being a sloth just sat there until morning, and when his wife woke up, there's this My God, she was not real happy. I think they may have divorced later, but, uh, probably not just because of this law in any way.

00:30:44.740 - 00:31:15.270

Eso he took, took the sloth and put it out in front of the house. He had a duplex, so the sloth was out front and he had a collar or something, wrote wrote. So all the neighborhood kids went to see the slough. And these things have claws, probably about the size of my two first fingers, and they can actually slash very quickly if there annoyed enough, even though they're very slow.

00:31:15.270 - 00:31:42.370

Otherwise, eso here's all these little kids and I remember the sloth is being almost asses bigas I waas because I couldn't have been more than five, probably less, and, uh, it was by this time, he was pretty annoying. So he was doing slashing with this clause and all these little kids were getting his closest e.

00:31:43.040 - 00:32:03.050

That's a lot more casual about their Children than we used to Go play in the jungle and swing from the vines and pretend we were Tarzan and the jungle was right across the street from the house. Okay? And so we go down in there in a little ravine fun and Oh, yeah, it was great.

00:32:03.140 - 00:32:24.340

Yes. Way. Then a big ball started taking pets. Eso we were after that, we weren't allowed to go. Least I wasn't allowed to go in the jungle anymore. I think there may have been one or two little boys whose parents encouraged. Um uh, have fun. Don't come back.

00:32:24.340 - 00:32:57.360

Thio. Whenever, Uh, yeah, that kind of restricted our jungle play. That's pretty unique. Wouldn't have done that in the States. I'm sure Zack shelters one of the jungles. Yeah, kids. Kids were just much, much less sheltered. Okay, what was 60 years ago? Yeah, you used to go out and chase Mountain lions for Pete's sake.

00:32:58.140 - 00:33:32.390

In Texas. Really? Yeah, by accident, but yeah, just out running in the woods through the jungle or wherever. Yeah. Wow. Well, what else? What kind of did you play? Any sports growing up there? Okay, straight a student until you get to that e o season. Geminis and everything else?

00:33:32.400 - 00:34:03.120

Uh, yeah. No, I was a great aggravation to my gym. Teachers wanted no part of it. Yeah, I do know what that's like. Um, how did you celebrate your holidays? I've heard a lot about Christmas tree burn. The Christmas tree Burns? Yeah. Um, yeah, they The ship would come in with all the Christmas trees, and you probably heard the Christmas tree ship.

00:34:03.360 - 00:34:28.690

They do the same thing in Hawaii. Uh, Christmas tree ship is a big deal with it when it comes to math Mansion. I worked for Mattson until I retired. Okay, but yeah, holidays e don't know when we first were there, I guess Christmas decorations were kind of hard to come by.

00:34:28.700 - 00:34:49.290

E remember, my mother made soapsuds snow. One year, she took ivory flakes and put up this snow out of soapsuds and put it on the tree on it. Stripped all the paint off the ornaments. Just remember it. Is it destroyed? all our own. Oh, God. Um, she was upset about that.

00:34:49.300 - 00:35:11.080

Yes, it was hard to get. It was just hard to get stuff back then. The commissaries weren't very well stocked, I guess. Uh, and you know, that changed later, although it was always very limited. Another Should I tell the story about the dentist's daughter and Capezio shoes?

00:35:11.090 - 00:35:35.680

E told you that it was Thing was when I was in high school jumping around again and one of my friends Waas, the daughter of a dentist. And I always tell Bill it was kind of a classless society down there because everybody had a job and everybody had a pretty good job and there weren't any really.

00:35:35.690 - 00:35:54.410

And your quarters, unless you were head of the locks or something like that. Your quarters were based on service, years of service rather than mhm what you could pay rather than your job. Um, yeah. Or if you had a big family or if you had a really important job, those were the only exceptions.

00:35:54.520 - 00:36:14.140

So everybody had the same houses and you had to show up in the commissary. So you had this same clothes and one of my friends. Her father was a dentist and had, you know, they had more money. And she used to complain about how she would go to the States and get fancier clothes.

00:36:14.140 - 00:36:36.900

And the rest of us had and nobody cared way if she was, you know, if she couldn't get things, Mistake's she was complaining that something about Capizzi. Oh, shoes. Capezio shoes were thing to have. Back then. You couldn't get him in the commissary. And so nobody had him and nobody cared.

00:36:36.910 - 00:36:59.460

That kind of aggravated her. She couldn't really display her status. This isn't going a no. I can just see her hearing hearing this somewhere and going at Damn Carol. Well, eso keeping up with trends wasn't really that important to you or no classmates. And thanks, not really.

00:36:59.460 - 00:37:33.550

We were always we were way behind and we knew it and way, I think. Yeah, you know, as kids, I think way cared, but there wasn't a lot we could do about it, so it didn't matter. It's always very nice the way there's Onis would accept military people totally, but pretty much Oh, yeah, worked a part of his own that she kind of cycled through.

00:37:34.330 - 00:37:59.010

Yes. Yeah, I remember. In high school there there was a kind of social thing between the girls. This is by late high school, the girls who dated enlisted men. It was it was a sort of three levels and girls who dated enlisted men and then girls who dated in high school boys.

00:37:59.020 - 00:38:25.260

And then there were a few girls who dated officers, military officers by senior years. And somehow that was they thought they were a little above the rest of us. So you're pretty close to a military base or with their military living around. You were milling on the Atlantic side.

00:38:25.270 - 00:38:53.130

There were, what, three military bases and all, you know? Okay, there's little separate community. There were, what, 34 little separate communities. And then there would be separate communities that were military basis. Okay, But we all went to the same schools. Now, is it? E think the military kids went to the element canals in elementary schools as well?

00:38:53.920 - 00:39:16.290

Pretty sure. And in high school, we all went to the same school. There were two high schools. One on the Atlantic side, one on the Pacific side on dso was pretty well integrated. We were all all friends. We kind of knew the military kids wouldn't be there that long, but was pretty, pretty well integrated.

00:39:17.120 - 00:39:48.130

Yeah. Did you decide to go to college in the States? Uh huh. Okay. Right now, that's a little further ahead. But, uh, where did you decide to go? Stanford. Oh, wow. Cool. Okay. It was Yeah. I remember way had vacationed in California one year, and I saw Stanford from the train, actually, and decided I wanted to go.

00:39:48.140 - 00:40:24.100

There s So I did. It was far from home. Like that. Um, what were your thoughts or feelings about the turnover of the canal to Panama? Well, that eventually happened. Well, e never believed that the meanings could run it. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, but there they are.

00:40:24.110 - 00:40:46.020

They are a little help from the Chinese. I mean, I always felt wrong that the way we took the canal, but, you know, quasi legal at the time it was built and e. I always felt a little like a colonialist down there because we had this nice 50 mile wide strip that was clean.

00:40:46.020 - 00:41:15.950

The grass was cut and everything was perfect. You step across the line had the shelf of Panama and, uh, yeah, only shacks and I'll say Azzoni And I felt that you know, the canal zone compared to the wealthy areas Panama was there was this big a gap.

00:41:15.960 - 00:41:38.210

There was between the canal zone and the poor areas of Panama. Eso well wealthy suburbs of Panama. Well, it made the canal zone look shabby. Well, eso I never, never really felt that you killed that other crew, didn't I just basically saw the interaction along the border in the town of bars and so forth.

00:41:38.490 - 00:42:15.960

You saw cologne, which is the poorest part. Who else had trouble in Panama? Even even Panama at night, drinking under any problem. Your big people are always very nice. Oh, yeah? Well, there were sure. Good tour, mate. Love going out to put Portabello? Yeah, Yeah. How important was Panamanian culture or interacting with Panamanians?

00:42:15.970 - 00:42:42.020

How did that affect your life at all? Was it really like, isolated from the rest of the country for you? Yes and no. Okay, my, you'll have gotten that. My mother was always a little parents. Think about things. Yeah, but so we didn't travel into the interiors Muchas A lot of people did.

00:42:42.030 - 00:43:17.240

Okay? We went, went to the beach. Santa Clara Gore gona And that was about really about it way. Had Panama mean probably about my parents? Closest friends were Panamanian citizens, but they were Austrian. Oh, so why? Because I mean Austrian by birth, but And my best friend was one of one of their Children, okay?

00:43:18.000 - 00:43:52.630

And so they lived in Panama on big house with servants, lots of servants, And, uh so, yeah, we had We had Panamanian friends, um, went to carnival and, you know, but not really a lot of contact and the culture. Okay. I'd say they limited mind pretty much down and along with bars and the girls and everything.

00:43:54.150 - 00:44:26.060

Soldier on it. You are a soldier. Yeah. It was a lot of action on in the zone. Yeah, and a lot of particularly, I guess, e guess on both sides. A lot of wealthier Panamanians sent their Children to the canal zone schools, so we had Panamanian friends in school, but again, the wealthier Well, because they had to pay tuition.

00:44:26.110 - 00:44:51.580

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Yeah, Well, and in middle class, a lot of like debt. The pharmacist who worked with Daddy was Panamanian and his kids went to canals on schools and they lived in Panama. Mhm. But so middle, middle to upper class. And it means e think the really wealthy one sent their kids to the states.

00:44:51.590 - 00:45:23.800

E probably. Yeah. Even. Look. Great legs. Yeah. No, I actually went out once or twice with a couple of Panamanian guys at Stanford. Didn't work out. It appears so. Yeah. Those air, actually, all of my questions. Uh, are there any other memories you guys would like to share?

00:45:23.800 - 00:45:49.800

Things we haven't covered? Think we talk about a bunch of Well, uh, can't talk. Yeah, we're not talking about those. Oh, let me think. I don't know. It's just I don't think I ever really appreciated what a good childhood I had. We had a lot of freedom and, you know, it was very safe.

00:45:50.190 - 00:46:17.970

Mhm club. I guess a small town in us would have been equally safe, but it was very It was very safe, very comfortable. Life really and limited in a lot of ways, which I always struggled against. Everybody knew what you were doing, who you were and what you were doing.

00:46:17.970 - 00:46:45.430

and yeah, but on the other hand, you know, in junior high, we would group of girls. My friends would what? Take fishing poles and go down to the little pond by the railroad station and go fishing or go to the gateau Yacht Club. And just I don't know who they even belonged to Grab aka Yuca and paddle out into the lake.

00:46:45.440 - 00:47:17.840

And as we got older, go out in a way that the sailors on the ship on, uh, you know, no life jackets, no nothing way. Could all swim really Well, of course, but, you know, we paddle out, do that, and, uh, that sounds fine. Site. Take our bicycles and go across the across the canal of the locks and cycling up to the damn all around carbon club tarpon.

00:47:18.580 - 00:47:40.900

I don't know. We never went to the tarp in code much. I was a little far because she had to come cycle back up that big hill. But just it's kind of right around E think taking our done around. Okay, E, I think we will