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It's July 1st, 2010. This is Candace Ellis with Amanda Knoll interviewing families from the Panama Canal Zone. If you guys wanna introduce yourself, will be interviewing Bonnie Davis. Stolen Karen Dolan WBAP in Edward Dolan today. July, Days time in 10. All right, um, So you had started telling us that you both were in the canal zone, and this is your daughter.

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So if you wanna maybe start with that story how you guys came to be there. Well, our story of their begins with Bonnie's family who was came down for the construction of the canal. So you go ahead. Oh, my grandfather in 1907 was a veteran of the Spanish American War, and he was hired by the President Roosevelt with his job in the Canal Zone as a policeman, and he had been writing to my grandmother.

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She was 13 as a pen pal, and he was so excited about the job and thought, you know, if he didn't take it right away and, uh um, go down to Panama, he would lose the job. The position would be filled. So he didn't even tell her.

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He just went to Panama And then they started writing again. They picked up their writing and I have letters, you know, hundreds of their love letters. But he became a policeman and he retired as a commander, a district police commander. And he lived there with his wife, my grandmother, Laura.

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And they retired in Gamboa. And at that time in the fifties, you were able to retire and stay there. And they died and were buried at the cemetery and Garcelle with, along with other relatives. Aziz. Well, but their life was very interesting. And their love letters are exciting to read.

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And so when I grew up, my all my relatives lived there. I had my mother and father were both born in the canal zone. My father was born in Colon in Panama and my mother in the canal zone and, uh and s. So we have six generations that live there.

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Four generations born, born there. So on day one, my great grandfather, uh, he on, uh my, uh my mother's side. Hey, was he went down to help in the construction of the canal. So I have on my maternal side, my grandfather, in 1907 was in the police force, and my other grand great grandfather was in the construction.

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He was a mason, and he helped build some of the artwork in the administration building. Hey was an artistic mason. It was a new Irish immigrant that come born in Ireland, came over, met his wife, Molly, who was an immigrant from Sweden, and they came to Panama.

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But he was going back to my, uh, police grandfather. He was on the first police force in the canal zone that was developed, and my husband closed out in 1982. The last he was he was working as a police lieutenant. And so he was on the last platoon and closed out the canal.

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The canal zone Police eso so Yeah, kind of full circle. Yeah, right. So and Karen was born, and I'll let her tell her story, but well, I wanted to just expand on what the administration building is that your great grandfather did a lot of the masonry.

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Our artwork. That was the building where the governor, who is appointed by, was appointed by the President. United States. That's where the governor's office waas. And so it was this very large beautiful, Um, just building on the top of the side of a hill that you could see from many different locations on an con hill on.

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That's, you know, that was kind of the central point focal point of the Canal zone, because that's where the governor's office, Waas and his living quarters were just around up the street from the administration building. And does that building still exists? Yes, it does. It's used by the current administration of Panama's Panama Canal would call the authority of the canal.

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That's their administration, building a swell testing thing. The building. It also housed all the bureau directors of the canal in the Canal Zone. You had the Canal Zone government, which was the administration and authority over the canal, and then you had the Panama Canal Company. The governor of the Canal Zone had to be a general in the Army Corps of the Engineers, and when he came to the canal zone and took over that position, he took his uniforms off.

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He dropped the title of general, and he used the title governor and he had absolute authority over the canal zone. In other words, all laws and everything had to be through his authority in there. That was even the military basis theme. Canal zone police, which was a federal police force, had jurisdiction in the entirety of the canal Zone, even on the military basis, which at times got to be a thorn in the side of the military commanders because they're used to have an just their base and nobody else.

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And the canal zone police could go on. But the governor allowed the commanders of the military basis to patrol police and administrate their basis in the canals. Um, with his authority, which would get the governor sometimes in trouble because there was a four star general down there that ran South calm.

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And he was only a two star general, I would say so. A four star general doesn't like a two star general telling him what to do for granting him authority to do something. So it got touchy at times for some of the governor's. They were in a tight spot.

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Uh, the lieutenant governor of the Canal zone had to be a colonel in the Army corps of the Engineers also, and he dropped his title colonel and he was Lieutenant governor and the most of the bureau directors were also in the military. Like the port Captain's were Coast guard.

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The Marine Bureau was headed by a Navy captain. Uh, so you have a lot of military that had positions in the canal. And the reasons was, is the corps of Engineers kind of like, uh, to maintain because of the canal, the construction and the operation of it, You know, they needed have the military control of it, But you couldn't have a neutral waterway with the military commander.

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So that's why they dropped those titles. And they went by Governor, Lieutenant governor, etcetera. So it was, uh it was a unique situation on the four star that was in charge of U. S. Southern Command wasn't in charge, necessarily of Panama, per se of the canal zone.

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He was responsible for, from a military aspect for Central America, all of Latin America, Central America, South America and the Caribbean. So even though the headquarters was located within the canal zone, that wasn't his government area as a commander, so as dependence of of the adds family he was the main breadwinner in the family.

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But we worked. I worked for the military for a while up in Quarry Heights and Karen worked for. She worked for U S Southern Command, which was the four star headquarters on Ben. When I went back to Panama as an adult, Um, I worked for them as well for 13 years.

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Can you describe what you did? Um, it was interesting working at Cory Heights. It was, uh, I was hired as a click clerk stenographer, and I had two years of college, and I was excited. I bought a car and a little, um, convertible. And, um, Corey Heights was, ah, very secure base.

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It was on top of an con hill. And it you could even see the canal. The ship's going through the canal, but I worked for J six was a directorate, and I work for every branch of service. So there has a navy commander, Air Force Army.

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And so it was interesting. There was. There were a few battles that went on here and there, but I was good experience. And later on I transferred into the transportation branch. Was the name under the, uh, the administration of the governor, and, uh, the name flips me right now, We were under Joe would.

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And anyway, we handled all of the incoming employees that were hired by the canal and the ones that were leaving that decided they didn't want to stay, and they wanted to go back to the U. S. And also every two years you were entitled to travel back to your home of record.

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You know, the government would pay for your way your family. So every two years, we would take a vacation. And during the summer months, you packed up your kids and you, you know, they had charter flights. Or we have this ship for a while with our really nice assess, Cristobal and the an con.

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And so there were different ways of traveling back to the States. At first it was by ship. And then later on, it was homely, homely on, and we a za family, a za little girl growing up. I had not been to the States or visited the States until I was a teenager.

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So E was born in Panama. And so there was a lot of, you know, um, interesting trips that we made when I was a teenager. Every two years but and then as a family unit and I were married, we tried to go back every two years, but But it was It was a wonderful life.

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It was like a hidden secret. I always, you know, it's still a paradise. We go. We tried to go back every year on, and I was going to mention that our our family is still all connected with the government we have. Karen has two brothers, one older and one younger.

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She is the middle one. The older one works for the Department of Homeland Security, and he works in Washington, D. C. And Prior Thio promotion and want to Washington D. C. He was transferred to Panama and he worked at the embassy for almost 12 for five years.

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He was there and he was able to buy a small little beach house. So we have We have still have residents there, you know, through him. And I got my, uh, my Cecilla because I have I was born in Panama, and eso I'm considered dual citizenship on, uh but then our youngest son right now is in Kuwait.

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He's in the army. He's there for a year on, uh but everyone is in the government, and our oldest son is also in the in the reserves. Army reserves so and Karen's husband is in the military army. So we have. He's a colonel, And, uh so we have, ah, lot of connections.

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Still with the government. Oh, you're the youngest son. Yeah, I said the kid town. Yeah, he's in. He's in the military. He's over in Kuwait right now. So, um, were you know, when we were living in the canal zone, the only job you could, you know, it was offered to you through the government S o I, uh my first job was a worked at the high school, uh, helping with the books and all.

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And then the next job I had was a shred of the theater, and I actually was a government employee with my little flashlight and telling people to take their their feet off the seas of making popcorn and e Then I, you know, moved up from there, eventually retired from the government after over 30 years of service.

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So I also worked for Department of Homeland Security here in the States when we moved back. So we're first customs and then, you know, it became Department of Homeland Security. But I think we're passing up a lot of life. But fast forwarding there's so much to tell way could just went back to the history of how we got there in the families, on the uniqueness of what involved there was that your first down there was your Grandpa Davis.

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He went down as a policeman and eventually was in 1910. I think that he went up and married his long pen pal and brought her down to the canal zone, which was still partially jungle in under the construction. Everything side. They didn't talk much about it, but I know it had to be quite a cultural shock to come down to that and also the hospital that that that I was born in, my brothers were born in.

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My mother was born in my aunts, cousins, uncles. My grandmother is called Gorgeous Hospital and Gorgas Hospital was named after a non Army general Army Army colonel who was a scientist, and he is the one who invented the cure from malaria. He was sent there because when the U.

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S. Took over the building of the canal from the French. It was because so many were dying from malaria. They had that big problem on. He invented the cure. So they named this hospital after him. And later on, after the treaty implementation was underway, they became an army hospital.

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So it was named Gorgas Army Hospital. And so it's still there today. It Z college, Actually, an institute didn't. Didn't he actually discovered the cure for yellow fever? Yellow fever? He initiated a program of cleaning up the still waters around the area and eliminating the larva and the water to see growing up in the canals.

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And we had our mosquitoes and bugs. But here in Florida, I have Mawr, Benning, Georgia. Well, that's because they spray DDT have heavily spray, and you have a lot of of side effects from DDT. And so I think, is your great here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyhow, so he came down and you kind of brief Hilbers history.

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He he was. We had the canal was like, uh, strip 254 miles wide. And so it was five miles on either side of the center line. They were deviated from That was the water of the rivers and the lakes have provided the water for the canal that went out where the water would back up on the lake and you had the canals, then went 100 ft from the mean high water mark.

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So we had 100 ft beyond that, where the water touched it. So that's spread out beyond the five miles. So you had 250 square miles of land. Excuse me, 500 that was divided in two. So you had to district's You had the Atlantic and you had the Pacific.

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Okay, and we come and refer to those as the other side. If you lived in Balboa, anybody from crystal ball lived on the other side. Vice versa. So you'll probably hear that they were from the other side. And those of us that have spouses that are not from there, we just say when you meet people, no matter what side they say, they're from, say, you're from the other side.

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It's a joke, and a lot of people spouses do that. I'm from the other side. Anyhow, he started out mainly in the Atlantic side, which is also referred to as the North because the ship's going through the canal travel north and south. Eso, a north bound would be going from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic, and South Bound would be going to the Pacific, which is also unique.

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If you look at the map, the bend of the canal, it's a I don't know too many places in the world where you wake up in the morning and look out over the Pacific Ocean and watch the sunrise. And to get to the United States, driving from like bow boy, you had to drive.

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You had to drive south at first to go north. You're actually heading north when your physical we were driving south because of the shape of the land. So it zey unique place like that. But that doesn't confuse you. E think I'm falling. Eso the north, the different sides.

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That's really interesting where they're big cultural differences or where there was their contention between the different sides. Or was it? And you have a bowel bore Bulldogs when it was a Pacific side and you had the crystal ball tigers, which was the Atlantic side Crystal ball was blue and gold.

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Balbo was red and white. So we always had the football games big, you know, talk about content and also each will say their side was the better side. It's like I started out in the Atlantic side and I remember when my father got his job, he to go to the Pacific.

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He changed his jobs. He came and he sat us down. There were nine Children in his family. He sat us down. He says We're moving to Balbo. He says, I have to go over there because of my job and he says Now, once you know when you go over there, you're gonna have to wear shoes and a shirt E And we were all crying on a Atlantic side.

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I knew all of the football players on the high school when I was in kindergarten. I knew all the football players on the football team. All the baseball players, the basketball players, all the sports. I knew their names, who their girlfriends were. I knew the cheerleaders were.

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I knew where all of them lived, and that's the way it was. And I could remember my older brother and I would be telling my dad We gotta go to the football, the Tigers airplane that I was gonna go the football game with the basketball game, you know?

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And it was a tighter community over there. It was very close. Yeah, When you went to Balboa, you had your clicks because then you had Balbo. Then you had Diablo, which is another towns like then you had an Khan was another one. And then you had little 30 of course.

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Thin The military basis. Eso you you? Even though we went, we got the school. When you got into junior high school in high school, we all went to one school on our side. And that's where you met everybody in there before that. You didn't need everybody so much before you.

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You wanted to say we used to ride the train going back and forth. So you were once you were in junior high. Your parents would let you ride the train. You get on with all the other kids or in my generation, when you were like five, you could ride the train with your friends.

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So yes, yes, very Z. My father was a conductor on the train. So on he was a well paid employees. He at that time he earned a very good salary. He retired. He well, he died, but he was from skin cancer, so But he worked for the railroad for 30 years.

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My older brother, um, used to work with my grandfather as on the railroad and the Miami Herald actually sent a reporter down to the canals. Um, one time they did a big article in the Miami Herald was on the front page, called the youngest conductor in the world.

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And it was my brother and my grandfather. My brother was eight, I think, and my grandfather and we're hanging out of the side of the train and he would go and check the bathrooms and take the tickets. Eso they did this big article on him. And what did you tell the story?

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To tell the story that our son, Karen's brother Eddie, it's just talking about he would he would be able to walk back and forth from coach to coach. And when you passed over, you would actually from coach to coach. You were exposed to the elements. You could fall off the train.

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There was, you know, it was just the iron the stairs that came up, and so you would you could hear the linkage off the train moving and you go from coach to coach. And so Eddie got used to doing that by himself. And when you went to the men's room or, you know, it was a co ad thing, um, you could actually watch the tracks, you know, through the ca load.

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And so, as a little boy years old, that was fun, you know? So he would, you know, he would kind of get lost in there. And this 11 train trip that my father took Eddie on, he couldn't find him. My father couldn't find his grandson and derailed and playing.

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The train had derailed. And so they got the train back on the tracks, and they started up again and no grandson. So my my father stopped the train and, you know, the engineer got off the train and all the baggage people got off the train and passengers, they were looking, you know, Freddie, and all of a sudden Eddie Pope just head off the train.

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He was like, What's what's going on? You know what is going on? Where have you been? He was in the bathroom playing, you know, with a toilet. Watching the action of the tracks Booth on here. Everyone was off the train looking for him. He was You know what?

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What are you doing? My father was born in White Plains, New York, and went to Panama when he was two years old. So e don't know. So how does are there? Differing sentiments? Um, you guys just witnessed between people who are born there and then people who were born in the States and move there as everywhere you go when you come in, you you work your way into a community and within the people, you make your own way as your personality character.

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What, uh, in the military were coming and going. It's normally a to three year tour there, down there. So you will have people coming into your life, and then you see them and you get to know them. You become friends in two or three years or gone like we're having our 50th class reunion this year.

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And, ah, lot of the people in our class. A lot of the people in our class, uh, or military, but their Zonen's there, it's it's in them. This is the highlight of their life. Was living in the canals on being part of it. A lot of people got out of the military and went back to live there because the lifestyle was so wonderful.

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You had the best of both worlds. I have to say EDS. Mother raising nine Children Every every kid in the neighborhood was welcome to sit at their table. So their house, they had no air conditioning and most of us growing up didn't have air conditioning or a television until until we were about.

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I was 14. But his mother, I mean, everyone the neighborhood would I would love to go to the Dolans house, and at Christmas time it wasn't Christmas because we just put a Christmas lights. There was no snow, you know. It wasn't anything to change, you know, the the the weather or anything.

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But the Dolan house had silhouettes of every family, you know. They had black. It was black silhouettes of all the whole family. And then it would be, was Merry Christmas from the Dolans on until you saw that because they lived in a house that was pretty.

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Um, it was a s. So everyone when you drive by, everyone would see their house eso until that came up. Then you knew it was Christmas time. You know, their house was a very warm friendly. So wherever she they moved, they always They always did well with with getting into the community.

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But and his father became the fire chief and he was little. He was very close to the bomb Barros in Panama, and he provided a lot of the old fire trucks to the Panamanian fire Department. And they were very close to a lot of the people in Panama.

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So so are we. It's still we still consider Panama. Our hearts are still there and our hearts, you know, we're happy to live in the US because there's nothing greater as far as I'm concerned. But there's nothing greater than being in Panama either. But, you know, it's just we've had the best of both worlds.

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Yeah, that's home. And that's the way we feel. It's like coming from a small town. You know, My husband grew up in a small town in South Dakota on a farm, and that's how he feels about his hometown and everybody knows each other and they're all friends on Facebook.

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It's a smaller version of it because his town didn't even have a street light or ah, stops not that stop signs, but not street light. What does a traffic lights? They didn't even have any. It was so small. There was one small grocery store his graduating class had, I think 19 kids in it.

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But it's that same relationship that you have from a small town because the canal zone you had generation upon generation, you know, my Children. One of them was born in Panama, but we left when he was eight months old. Um, they don't they don't know any of this.

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But yet when we come to the Canal Zone reunion to the Panama reunion, which is where we're right now, they they immediately feel like this is their family, because this is people that know not only me that know them that know their grand parents and it Z, even though you may not have personally known the person, you have an instant bond instant connection because you're from the same place your grand parents knew each other.

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Your parents knew each other. And you, you feel like family. So it's the same small town, even though it was larger and scale. It's like being from a small town here in the United States. What did Collins my youngest? That's 10. We were preparing to come here and he said, Well, Mom, how come I wasn't born in Panama?

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And I said, Well, because we didn't live there when you were born and he said, Well, you should have made me born in Panama You're a bad mother, E He's just teasing there. Yeah, way were, I guess, because we were surrounded by Costa Rica and Colombia and in the water, Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean that everyone helped each other out.

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You know, we everyone knew what was happening was a very close knit community, whether you were on the Pacific side or the Atlantic side and, you know, coming here. I still meet some of my parents friends. They're still alive and, you know, it's it's just you spend at the reunions, and we come almost every year that we can.

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It's a lot of four days of hugging and, you know, just going over stories like this and we're just very blessed to have lived there. We have a lot of Panamanian friends, and at first, when the treaty was signed, we were I was We were upset because way at my husband lost his job.

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The canal zone police closed my jumping ahead of of Okay, okay. And so we went through a really difficult transition, leaving there and never living in the States and never, you know, owning a home. You know, um, all these things and Karen was you were 14 when we left.

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So it was really difficult for Karen and ready to leave their friends and him behind. But now that it's in retrospect, and I never thought I would say this, but it's been Excuse me, I think really good for Panama. So there's good and there's bad, but we lost our home, but but it's been good for the country, and they're they're getting there.

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They're not there yet, you know. And we were talking about that this morning, it and I about how they've come a long way from just a small, undeveloped country To where you know now. I mean, there's there. They've got a canal that they're responsible for and it's working on the canal is a very difficult operation, not just in the movie of the ships and all that.

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The maintenance on the canal is unbelievable. That is a maintenance nightmare. And for Panamanians to do maintenance. That was a big fear, you know, because it's not in their culture, you know, and they've done a great job with it, because when you talk about maintenance, you're not just talking about with locks themselves annually.

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They have to take gates off, repair them, overhaul them, put them back on their overall, the chambers. And I mean, you have to keep constantly dredge the canal because the weight of the land pushes the dirt up, so they're always dredging it. Now they're building the new canal, and even while they're doing this, they still gonna maintain all the vehicles, all the boats, the tugboats, everything, the locks, the docks, everything.

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And it's a huge job, and they're doing a good job at it. When you go down there, the place the canal looks just like when we have exactly the same. The only difference is the flags on the boat or different. It's the area around it is different.

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I mean, yeah, it's they they don't have. They don't have e o the people to staff into to maintain the grounds and certain things. But it's like we said, it's working. Have you ever been to the Oh, I've been thinking this entire time. What will be your tour guide?

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Another thing to the historically our family has there Is that the annual ocean ocean kayak arrays, which goes from three Atlantic Side to the Pacific side. It's a three day race that okay, you go is like a large canoe. It's made from a tree, or now I think they may come from different stuff.

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But years ago, but my father was in one of the first races and my brother and I raced. I raced when I was 13 and we would get up before school and go out at like, four o'clock in the morning and paddle out in the canal.

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It was still dark, and you could see the phosphorus on the water on the paddles on. DWI would do this for, like, a good six months before the race, and the goal was to finish the race. We didn't even care about winning so much because a lot of boats didn't finish.

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It was that grueling. Three days, three days, and you had escort boats and you would go from 1.21 point, then stay the night and then get up with the crack of dawn and go and do the next leg of the race. And, um so and then you would go through the locks and hold onto ropes, and then you would lower through the locks.

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You know, in these little wooden boats, you know, it was to to to to a vote for people on the boat was the boats that were competing. Then they had the bigger, um, kind of like boats that weren't it for fun, which might have, like, 20 people like one was named cardiac arrest was like older people, you know, they just did it for fun.

00:34:47.410 - 00:35:12.270

But the the competing boats had four people on. There was all male teams, all female teams. And then they were coming, and explorers E was in the follow through. E mean you joined a scout, join us house with the Boy Scouts, Boy Scouts of America, where the sponsors of when the U s I think canal Now they have the gather The something people have continued on.

00:35:12.270 - 00:35:28.630

They formed a paddling club, they call it And now they come from all over the world to race. Yeah, they come from Europe. They come it Z grown tremendously. It's a huge annual race every year. Do you guys go down for it Way have? Yeah, Not every year.

00:35:28.630 - 00:35:48.050

But it's in April. Yeah, that's when our oldest boy he lived down there. He's working the embassy. He paddled in it five years in a row. Yeah. No. Yeah, Fine. When he was there for five years, I think he for four years. Because one year. Yeah, and he paddled in it once.

00:35:48.050 - 00:36:09.740

When? Before we left down there and he was in a winning boat then And he never could get in the winning boat. They were always second place. Four years He was there, but the boat he was in when we were there, Children was on display in Cocoa Beach in a surf shop because there was another family.

00:36:09.740 - 00:36:24.210

The Grimsson family that's still paddles. They go back and paddle. And they had I don't know if he purchased the boat or if it's his boat or what? Well, he had it, um, displayed in a it's called Cocoa Beach Surf Company or something on It was on display there.

00:36:24.210 - 00:36:44.220

Actually, the due process is the name of the boat. Yeah, Frank towns. And he is a professor at the University of Florida E don't know what department or whatnot. E think he has his doctor. He might be Dr Frank, but anyhow, he wrote a little article for the museum on the Chiyoko race.

00:36:44.220 - 00:37:07.070

He and I, where we did about two races together in the same scout troop, and he's got a little story on there, you know? I have a copy of it in the room, but he wrote it and he could, you know, maybe you'll have a copy and you could get from him and see it and gives you a little insight into what it wants to go through.

00:37:07.080 - 00:37:30.130

You said you were in the first race. No, I wasn't in the first, but I was like in the second year I did five verses and we have first one I was in, I think was Let's see, I wanted 59 e thought hey said in his story that the first, the first race, was in 1959 because no, no, no.

00:37:30.130 - 00:37:56.160

It was I think it was 56 e, I think I don't know if I was 56 I probably might have been, but the last two years I was in our boat, came in first and he wasn't in the boat, which was disappointing, because he tried all that time and they never got, uh and are both this very His father was the scout master.

00:37:56.170 - 00:38:21.330

Mr Will read Townsend. And hey, um, he got us this boat. It was a river. Chiyoko was called up Aragua, which wasn't set low in the water, Didn't have much free board, but it was narrow and fast. We used that. And, uh so he painted a fire engine red.

00:38:21.520 - 00:38:44.890

And then he painted in white letters. And the name of the boat was co. He may see Puerto, which means catch me if you can. Hey, says now you better win way 12 years in a row. A. But I wanted to go back earlier when you were talking about, you know, living down there and people coming in and moving out.

00:38:44.890 - 00:39:08.230

How did we feel? One thing was after leaving the canal when our jobs, when our career ended down there and we had to leave, we came up here. I have always felt different. Now I'm born in the United States. I'm retired from the military. I did four years active duty in the Navy, and I did 23 years in the reserves.

00:39:08.720 - 00:39:29.820

So I'm I'm not isolated from Americans or being around them. But I feel different. I am different. I know I'm different and we've Since the treaty, we've got the name Zone Ian's where Zone Ian's Zone. Ian is somebody that was either born and or lived in the canals.

00:39:29.820 - 00:39:53.100

All was raised in the canals, and it was a derogatory term. It first used against us when the treaty went and prior to the treating. Uh, we got a lot of bad press down there. Congress called this gutless sheep. A lot of derogatory terms were used against us, and in the treaty they were saying we lived outlandishly.

00:39:53.100 - 00:40:13.440

We abused the Panamanians. They said that we, uh, coerce them out of things, and we had too many churches in the canal zone way had manicured lawns and we lived way above the means of all Americans, which we didn't r pe was actually less than the standard government employees.

00:40:13.810 - 00:40:39.690

And it gave us a differential for a living there, which raised it a little bit well. And all the money, all the money the Panama Canal didn't cost us taxpayers one penny. All the money that was made with the Panama Canal went back into the running of the panic Panama Canal and paying the employees and everything that it took thio maintain it.

00:40:39.700 - 00:40:58.530

And so it ran itself kind of participate back. The debt of building were brought in by the shipping by the ships and the police. We gave a ticket out for speeding for parking, whatever. And you went into court and you've got a fine for whatever crime you had.

00:40:58.530 - 00:41:21.520

And you paid your fine. Those monies from the tickets and from the fines and court did not go to the canals. Um, government. They went to the U. S. Treasury way didn't get it. It was a very low crime area. You know, Andi, even the the people in Panama that lived there were there were poor.

00:41:22.310 - 00:41:42.320

They might look at you and say, Oh, you're a rich gringo, you know? But they would not kill you. You know, they might steal your money, but you were going to survive it, you know. And well, that's because of Political Machine of Panama blamed the US for everything.

00:41:42.330 - 00:42:10.020

I just wanna make something comment before I forget and one of my letters that I was reading over my grandparent's letters love letters. They were having difficulties in my grandmother Waas not receiving letters from him and worrying about him. And she was very young and it was a It was a romance that really started with the letters as pen pals.

00:42:10.500 - 00:42:39.170

But in one of those letters he writes, you know, I look so forward to receiving your letters. Um, the women here, the girls here are beautiful, but their skin is too dark for me, so you don't have to worry. Oh, but anyway, their their letters that are so beautiful just to read.

00:42:39.170 - 00:42:59.150

And Carrie and I were talking about trying to put together a book on based on this love story, so but it z so go ahead. And I wanted to just didn't want to forget that he he says certain things in his letters about where he worked on once.

00:42:59.150 - 00:43:23.430

Bo Hell, I've never heard of that town before. A A lot of the town's went underwater when they construction construction pounds. So when they canal started full swing, Um, all these towns no longer exists And a lot of artifacts and things went, you know, into the mud into the water.

00:43:23.900 - 00:43:51.820

Um, but there's core gona bo he Oh, empire cool. IBRA Culebra. Yeah, Empire Empire Empire became part of the military ranges they had for artillery ranges, bombing ranges, and then vampire was a town used in the construction. And then that closed down. Then you weigh got the major towns on either side of the paths.

00:43:53.100 - 00:44:19.000

Adds 50th class reunion. He There's 120 people here, and after 50 years, that's a pretty good turnout from how many were in your high school class? I don't know. Probably not. Probably maybe 200 of the most. I think it was over 200 e e. I was just going to go into go into, like what?

00:44:19.000 - 00:44:38.600

It was like growing up there. Yeah, I had to write a kind of, ah story for, um, a group that I was in with my church and I e kind of started with my childhood in the way that that I describe it and I tell friends that are not from Panama.

00:44:38.610 - 00:44:52.790

My friends that I met after moving here in the United States is, you know, life growing up there was, you know, we would wake up in the morning if it like during the summertime, when we didn't come to the States on home leave, we would wake up in the morning and we would be gone all day.

00:44:52.790 - 00:45:09.380

You didn't have to go home to eat lunch because you could either throw a rock in a mango tree or take a stick or climb the tree and get the mango needed. You could, um, get avocados or bananas or whatever. Rose apples, different fruits get up.

00:45:09.380 - 00:45:23.090

Skin ups were another type of fruit we would eat on. Did you just go to the water somebody's hose on the side of the house and drink the water? Because the water was some of the best water in the world. In terms of the purity and purification.

00:45:23.090 - 00:45:39.490

Naturally from the Shockers River. Um And so then we would come home at the end of the day when, you know, street lights, the street lights came on and not that's not just my upbringing. My parents went through the same thing My grandmother used to tell the same story.

00:45:39.500 - 00:45:59.010

You know, this was generations that just grew up this way. And so when we moved to the United States, it was very different because you didn't have securities, you know, um, the freedom to do that. And just like my father's story about having to wear shoes, you know, moving from the Atlantic specific.

00:45:59.020 - 00:46:14.790

Well, I grew up running around without shoes, to climbing trees and playing, you know, football on the fields and stuff. Then when we moved to the United States, it was the same thing. Nobody went around barefoot, so it was kind of the same dynamic for me.

00:46:14.800 - 00:46:40.980

The experience I want Teoh say that there were two hills that you like to climb, and you One hill was where the administration building was located, and they used to get the palm fronds from the trees. And you you can tell us we would slide down we would get the dead pom poms and get a whole bunch of us and like, almost like a sled.

00:46:40.980 - 00:47:03.190

But a treatment of train You on the hill kind of had slopes on DSO. We would all get on it like a train and we would slide down it or we would get cardboard or we would even like our bikes. We would go way would we would kind of go zigzag down the the different levels of the hill and get, you know, daring enough to ride our bikes.

00:47:03.200 - 00:47:21.560

There were huge drainage ditches because in Panama rains, what, nine months out of the year. So there were drainage ditches, probably 6 ft deep, maybe deeper, and we used to use those as waterslides. And I told my husband else if my Children were trying to do, we're doing what I did.

00:47:21.560 - 00:47:34.970

I would have been mortified because the water would come fast and furious down these huge hills and the only thing at the end of it where these metal bars. But I mean, I remember our lakes would get stuck in there, and all the kids would be holding us way.

00:47:34.980 - 00:48:01.380

There were lines of weight go sliding down these big drainage. It sounds like a way. Where did you guys moved when you were 14? Where do you relocate to remove Jacksonville. Jacksonville. And the only reason we moved to Jacksonville because, adds parents had his father retired from the police chief position.

00:48:01.380 - 00:48:32.820

And they chief Fire Chief. I'm sorry, Fire Chief. And they moved to Jacksonville because, um, older son went there. You know, you didn't really know where to go. So you went where family, where you had some family and what year was E. 80 to 1982. And then I moved back in 1994 as an adult, and I worked for the army on then Karen's brother, older brother, was hired by the time U S.

00:48:32.820 - 00:49:05.630

Customs, and he worked out in, um out West in Arizona and and for three years, And then they selected him to transfer him to Panama because he spoke. Karen speaks fluent Spanish, and so does Eddie on DSO. He worked there at the embassy for five years under U S customs at the attache office, and, uh, then he's transferred him back to D C for right now, but there's a possibility he may go back.

00:49:05.640 - 00:49:22.270

Um, we speak Spanish because we grew up. You know, even though my mother was a secretary at the time, my father was a police officer. We had a maid. We had a gardener. We had a boat. My grandfather had an island. We would go to the beach all the time.

00:49:22.270 - 00:49:50.860

So we lived the life we lived amazing life. You had access to so many things that here, back in the United States, to be ableto have all those things you would have had to be pretty wealthy. But because the nature of being in Panama on ah, lot of the local Panamanians that were of the lower income would work as maids or gardeners in the canal zone because the Americans paid better than the wealthier Panamanians did.

00:49:50.870 - 00:50:05.280

And so the lady that worked for us and Halacha, she was like a second mother. I mean, we still we would, you know, go back and visit her. And every time we were there and she was part of our family, we were going to bring her to the United States when we moved.

00:50:05.280 - 00:50:20.140

But she had gotten married and had a child and she was actually tourney on whether to come with us and you know, but her husband was there, and she there was that closeness in that connection with the people that work for you. They became your family.

00:50:20.150 - 00:50:49.090

And so she didn't speak English and we didn't speak Spanish. And you just taught each other and you learned how to speak the language. And when we grew up, when we grew up, there are maids were up West Indian attraction. The US brought the West Indians to the canal as labors to build a canal, and they became fantastic employees language.

00:50:49.060 - 00:51:07.480

Let's talk. It s so they wanted to stay because they were living better than they would in Jamaica, the other islands. So they worked out a treaty with Panama and Panama allowed them to come in. In fact, told them if they stayed, they could opt to become Panamanian citizens.

00:51:07.660 - 00:51:34.090

So they came and brought their their spouses and Children over, and they raised their families there. So doing this, they were in a different wage scale than the U. S. So, for additional income, plus those that left the canal and lived in Panama, they would come over and they hire on his mates, you know, with the with the employees in the canal zone.

00:51:34.160 - 00:51:52.270

That's what Bonnie and I are. Maids were of West Indian extract from your accent. Yeah, way weren't from the islands, you know. What were the people there? We learn to speak the language. We need to eat what they eat, You know, for breakfast. We don't have pancake.

00:51:52.270 - 00:52:15.930

We have bigs. Get Biggs with it, you know, and you learn to drink your coffee. You put the carnation can milk rather than the other milk on. You just learned all these mannerisms. In fact, to this day, when I go into a store and I'm talking to the person there to counter and I hear their accent, I know that from the islands.

00:52:15.930 - 00:52:36.300

And I say, I think I hear the sweetness of the island coming out of your voice. You know, they look I have tow Add something here and only did we learn how toe cook Jamaican style foods, you know, Latin foods. I mean, we we still have to stay.

00:52:36.310 - 00:52:54.700

You know, our favorite foods are campo san cocoa empanadas. We made empanadas, or beach. We brought here, Um, you know, And when we get together, as as a family, that z type of food, we cook so well even at home. Like my husband, he's not from there.

00:52:54.700 - 00:53:08.600

He he has been there many times with his career in the military. Um, but he makes some of the best autos Campo and, you know, in our family I mean, he makes it because we cook it as a meal in our household time. Our kids love it.

00:53:08.610 - 00:53:27.650

It's just it's like chile or tacos. E Home is another staple in our house. It z the empanadas. Little interesting story we grew up with our empanadas in the canal zone and the ones in Panama were a little bit different Way didn't think much of it.

00:53:27.650 - 00:53:47.730

And empanadas and empanada. You know what they are? It's It's like a pie on meat pie. And so when we left and we come back to Panama, all of a sudden they didn't have our empanadas anymore. They only had the Panamanians way. Couldn't find it. You know what was the problem?

00:53:47.730 - 00:54:05.690

Well, I went online. I started researching it and I found out Wherever the Jamaicans go, they take the patty with, um, Jamaican beef Patty. Ours was a version of the Jamaican beef. Patty. Seeing Jamaica will put the two American makes it yellow. Are we to do that?

00:54:05.700 - 00:54:33.910

And they kind of come square. Yeah, so way we finally figured out that we couldn't. Everybody was saying, No, this is a real nobody was putting the rest be together because we weren't looking at the Jamaican patty, and that was a Jamaican influence. But it was so common like in our school when when I went toe junior high school, we That was the first time we had a cafeteria because an elementary school you had to take your lunch.

00:54:33.910 - 00:54:58.570

They didn't have cafeteria. Went home Well, at the at the junior high school cafeteria, they had machines that had empanadas. I mean, kind of like you would get a hamburger or maybe a hot dog here in school, cafeteria machines or something. They had the Jamaican beef empanadas were in there, and foods like that way s it was just normal food.

00:54:58.570 - 00:55:30.110

That's like a hamburger. There was also a dish called Johnny Mazzetti that originally came some from somewhere in the US And there's several families that say That was my grandmother's recipe. No, that was my grandmother's recipe. So everyone claims that this originated from their family, but it's somehow became one of our, you know, our when we socialized, someone would bring a dish called Johnny Mazzetti, and it's It's basically meat like ground round.

00:55:30.120 - 00:55:54.430

Um, the egg, the egg noodles, the white egg noodles like a spaghetti sauce, olives and lots of garlic and onions and cheese. Kind of like a quicker version of lasagna. Yeah, and it Z where Johnny Mazzetti, where he was from Or, you know, probably a creator of the rest of E.

00:55:54.440 - 00:56:24.790

It's a LeVar cookbooks. Johnny Mazzetti. It's not a Latin, you know dish, but it zone. Ian's needs culture, right? As a kid growing up, you would be involved in different sporting and scouting activities, and there was a lot of activities for kids, and then you would have, like at the end of the kaew curation of a big dinner or you swimming races, you'd have a dinner and the baseball season dinners.

00:56:25.080 - 00:56:49.860

Well, the dinners would either be fried fish or be Johnny Mazzetti because you make up a batch and everybody could sit down and do it. So that's everybody knows Johnny Mazzetti. It's a favorite dish. You'll hear it throughout your interviews and coming home when the streetlights on during the summers that we would stay in Panama in the Canal zone.

00:56:50.830 - 00:57:04.260

I remember my brother's in all of our everybody who who stayed you were going home to the States for home leave where you were staying. So if you were staying, your friends and you would get together and you would sign up through the school system for the summer programs.

00:57:04.260 - 00:57:29.760

And I mean I did. Archery, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, um, kickball, tether ball, ping pong, dodgeball square dancing, you love. There were gone in the morning. You would take your lunch or you would go to the cafeteria or something or whatever for lunch for your friends that you were gone every day all day and parents didn't have to drop you off.

00:57:29.760 - 00:57:43.640

They didn't have to stay with you. You would walk, you know, and go to the different places where you would take the bus that costs. You could take the expensive bus that was 10 cents, which was the big orange like old school bus Or you could take the chief of us, which was, Ah, falling apart.

00:57:43.650 - 00:58:10.480

Elope bus that had these dangling balls and the chief of music and stuff. And you would if you had five cents. You would take that bus on way. That's what we would do during the summer. And so now as a mother with young Children and the summertime comes here and I'm I keep looking for the summer programs and I live on a military installation in Georgia and it Z just you don't have that dynamic.

00:58:10.480 - 00:58:33.850

You have toe pay for these programs. You have to take your Children, be there with your Children unless you can build enough of relationship thio. Trust whoever it is you're leaving them with. So it's a whole different dynamic raising Children now. And I'm sure maybe this is just a generational thing to It's probably not just a Canal Zone thing, because my husband shares some of the same stories growing up.

00:58:33.860 - 00:58:55.710

The freedoms that he had used to walk to the movie theater walk home at night are in elementary school. Yeah, go to school like a school. I was gonna say something about feeling special. You were saying You feel different, You were feeling different. E think it's because you have like in our family.

00:58:55.710 - 00:59:32.850

You have six generations that lived in a country overseas and you became it was a different culture. In a way, it was it was there was a, uh, sogen land. The land, the land land divided the world united when they built the canal and way had every culture because of all the people that came to build the canal, every culture and almost an entire world lived there.

00:59:32.860 - 01:00:04.290

And the stronger the stronger countries like China, Africa, um, Spain, um, those those countries were highly, um there were a lot of people, so their their food and their ways were strong influences on our lives. And so we were introduced to so many wonderful people by living there, and so you do feel different in that way.

01:00:04.290 - 01:00:22.200

We're not different that anybody in the US because we all have stories to tell, you know, whether you were from the canal zone or not, but and most importantly, our loyalty and our hearts we are American way were in the Fourth of July parade every year.

01:00:22.200 - 01:00:44.480

I mean, it was a very American community within another culture. So that's why I say you had the best of both worlds because you had we had the pride of being an American. We, um, grew up with American traditions with American values. Um, just everything that goes along with being American.

01:00:44.480 - 01:01:07.240

But we were also exposed, um, to these other cultural influences which were so important in our in shaping who we became in life and so as a family are one of our home leaves, we decided to drive to the States. Karen was little thing three years old, but we packed up.

01:01:07.250 - 01:01:32.950

We had we bought a camper and we drove from Panama to the US And then we ship the camper back on the on the SS Cristobal. I guess it was on we came back by ship. But, um, you know, you can't do that now, you know, without having a you know, there's too many war, a lot of a lot of firearms and, you know, with you and protection.

01:01:32.960 - 01:02:16.570

But it's the Pan American highway, and it's unfortunate because it's a beautiful, beautiful trip. We were in the Bicentennial parade, which, um 7, 1976 which was the 1/100 anniversary anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, the establishment of America. And so we my mom and I wore the bonnets and long dresses, and my dad had the wig and the big long bayonet type gun and my brothers, we all dress it and we had big floats, and we had a parade that went from the town of Gamboa, which was halfway between the Atlantic side on the Pacific side.

01:02:16.580 - 01:02:34.560

So the parade went from the town of Gamboa all the way down into the town of Balboa, which was right on the city limits of Panama on the Pacific side. And it was a huge I mean, I don't know how Maney off course, my memory might be a little bit way float.

01:02:34.570 - 01:02:57.780

A lot of people involved drove from game board way float the float. But, I mean, there was everybody was involved, you know. Everybody was part of it when I was in, um, Girl Scouts. We would march in the parade and there were always parades for every American holiday.

01:02:57.790 - 01:03:38.000

Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, Independence Day. Um, just every American holiday. Everybody was out in full force. There were picnics. We had a tradition every year after, um, in January after Christmas holiday people would go around and collect, um, riel Christmas trees and all the different little townships would have Christmas tree burns, and people would come and bring food and drinks and chairs, and the kids would run around and play, and they fire department would monitor it because they would put all the Christmas trees in a big pile and they would have this huge Christmas tree bonfire.

01:03:38.000 - 01:03:52.820

And so it was You looked forward to Christmas, but then you look forward to the bonfire tree burn afterwards. You didn't. You didn't burn the whole big pile. You'd start off maybe like six trees, and then the families would get trees and they come up and throw it on.

01:03:52.830 - 01:04:06.940

Could be somebody direct them to keep it going. In the town that my parents live in here in Florida and a land not too far from what I have, Um, some friends of theirs live on a large piece of like, I don't know how many acres, 20 acres or whatever piece of land.

01:04:06.950 - 01:04:20.920

And they started doing this and people were coming from different parts of the state from that grew up in the canal zone and would bring their trees, and they were doing this tree burn. But then, I guess on the local fire department came a couple of times monitors.

01:04:20.930 - 01:04:38.050

Yeah, they were supposed to notify them, but eventually they were told they had to stop it or whatever, because the forest burns and it was too much of a risk. But people were coming from four and five hours away to go to the street. Burn. How much time do we have left?

01:04:38.050 - 01:04:59.890

Are we running out? Are Well, it's really up to you guys. Yeah, I know. He has an interview at 10. 30 so he might have toe slip. It's in here. Okay, That's right. Yes. I would like to add just one thing about coming here when Joe would asked, you know, asked us if we would be part of the interview.

01:04:59.900 - 01:05:36.000

Um, I said, definitely. Yes. Because to keep this alive, you know, and to be able, Thio somehow, you know, pass on to other generations what we experience it z so unique that living where you could see ships passing through the canal from ships from all over the world when you were going to work or going to school or playing outside in your yard and you know, it just you.

01:05:36.010 - 01:05:59.680

It was not that you took it for granted, but it was just part of your life. You know, being in the Cayuga race, um, they were they would paddle right next to this. I mean ship, maybe. Yeah, they love boat going through. And all the passengers Queen Elizabeth on there they were, then these little, you know, wouldn't you know?

01:05:59.680 - 01:06:22.750

Boats that just, you know, would hold four people, but their paddles that they would make, they would they would make the boats and the paddles, and originally, they would get you would get an Indian, um, to actually, you know, take a big tree log and carve your boat, and then they would take it and fine, tune it and shave it down.

01:06:22.750 - 01:06:39.590

And, you know, and this is how these boats were made. Well, when I went through, you had Teoh. The only thing you could repair the boat with was tin and tar, and you couldn't wax it now in the current ones. And when you went through your ableto wax it.

01:06:39.590 - 01:07:01.210

You could smooth finish the hall out. Yeah, And then they cut. They cut most of the waterway and they put put canvas and paint the canvas and make it lighter and everything. The one thing that you left out was that I'm not till 10. 30 Thank you.

01:07:01.220 - 01:07:19.000

Being when you were in the boy Scouts used to go up into by the shadows river and he would wear the just those. Well, now they call him thongs. I mean, like the Indians. Andi, You would spend what weeks up there at the time living in the jungle.

01:07:19.380 - 01:07:39.240

Um, you know, he was He was a lifeguard in high school. It waas and but a very strong swimmer. But you you spent a lot of time in the jungle, you know, one of a boy. Go ahead, one. The last question I ask is, how did you interface with us military in the Panamanian people?

01:07:39.250 - 01:08:05.790

And how important was the Panamanian culture in our in our life? And we've touched upon that, but I just kind of wanted to bring it full circle because most families that ended up in the canal zone were there because of the U. S. Military in some way, shape or form and a lot of them when I went to the country and the military and then either went back toe live because they loved it and they worked for the federal government or whatever those dynamics were.

01:08:05.790 - 01:08:25.290

But I now I'm 42 years old, Husband is a colonel, knew this army. We live on Fort Benning, Georgia, and I have people that I live right down the street. From that there is another Colonel. His father was, ah, four star general in charge of U S Southern Command in Panama.

01:08:25.670 - 01:08:45.020

So the dynamics and the influence of the Canal Zone are still in my daily life. We still talk about it. We talked about his childhood when he was there and a za military child living in Panama. There's another lady that's down the street. Who is the spouse who grew up in not in the Canal Zone, but in Panama.

01:08:45.020 - 01:09:01.710

And she married a service member and she left right down the street from me on Fort Benning, Georgia. There's an entire, um, group of military students from the Panamanian, uh, police force and military that goto school and their training with the U. S. Military on Fort Benning, Georgia.

01:09:01.720 - 01:09:24.990

I mean, as we speak. So the dynamics are still there, and the influence is still there. It's just a different level. But the interface, I guess, is still there is what I'm trying to get at. My father went down to Panama Canal 1942 early. He couldn't get in the military, but he was a captain and a volunteer fire department in New York.

01:09:25.270 - 01:09:46.100

So he and his brother, they saw the need for fireman that was advertised in the canal zone. So they applied. So they went down. There is part of the war effort in 19. They went down early, 42 1940 for my mother, older brother and I. We went down and we flew down there in the China Clipper.

01:09:46.470 - 01:10:03.440

It took us over a month and a half to get down there because the plane would take off, would be flying to Panama on an engine, would have problems. They would turn around and go back because if they got to Panama, they wouldn't be able to get the parts to fix the engine.

01:10:03.450 - 01:10:21.850

Uh, so anyhow, we eventually made it. And then after the war, my father and his brother decided to stay, and that's how I got down in there. But we went down as part of the war of being down there during the war. Two I can remember the the sirens going off.

01:10:21.860 - 01:10:42.480

We have, um, scarce, maybe unidentified, playing with fly near the canal. And so we had bomb shelters that they are. Parents would scoop us up out of bed, and we run to the bomb shelter and stay there for the rest of the night. And I can remember because that was such a frightening thing to experience.

01:10:42.860 - 01:11:08.010

Um, let's see all the troops going through the canal going over, and then you'd see them coming back. You'd see ships coming through that had war damage like aircraft carriers. The Franklin came through and it was just a mess. Really, really big meth. My father took my older brother and I up by the beach and colon, and we watched the ship go through the breakwater wall.

01:11:08.010 - 01:11:25.470

Native Submarine net. Medic ship, both with lower than net. Let him out. There was a minefield. We saw the ship go out. We were sitting there Also. We heard in a big explosion on we were wondering, What's that? And wait a little bit. And then there was another explosion on.

01:11:25.470 - 01:11:46.100

We saw some boats going. Planes took off and everything. And a little bit later, that ship came back in and had holes on. Both sides have been torpedo just outside. So the war was right outside of us there. And we found out later that the plan Japan was gonna bomb the canal.

01:11:46.110 - 01:12:04.930

They were They had submarines bringing planes over toe bombing. We had over 500,000 servicemen in the Canal Zone during the war. A lot of people didn't know that every hill had an anti aircraft gun. Sight on so military was just everywhere. We grew up with the military everywhere.

01:12:04.930 - 01:12:28.180

But you couldn't date them. You weren't allowed. You were called rat bait. If you hate it when you were in high school, if you went to the junior college, there was later acceptable. My generation a lot of them are military spine. Okay, change. She was half right.

01:12:28.150 - 01:12:49.690

Yeah, three e. I hope we didn't bore you. Not at all. This has been fantastic. Thank you guys so much. If you ever want to hear more stories, e way your pictures on Facebook. That was what I was gonna bring up. This Facebook has been. I mean, I remember somebody posting.

01:12:49.690 - 01:13:12.800

I don't remember who, but somebody, One of my Facebook friends said. Is it just us zone Ian's? Or do most people have three or 400 mutual friends? When you click on a three and 400 mutual friend, I'm ready. Oh, you wouldn't have a great time. We could take you all the best restaurants.

01:13:12.990 - 01:13:31.940

There's one restaurant that has been there since my great grandfather went down. I'm sure the Napoli and everyone I don't care what Sony and you ask him your favorite restaurant. They'll tell you the Napoli Italian. Hey, makes the old Yes, the old you know, Brick oven.

01:13:31.950 - 01:13:53.750

I mean, still to this day you go in the same tables. Everything is the same, you know. And the pizza, the price is the same is from back, you know, And when we used to be going down there with the family when we go down. But it's just hey, still has a little restaurant now it's kind of spooky side of town.

01:13:53.750 - 01:14:12.330

Now he opened up a new one. Yeah, better side. But he still has the old one. And 11 year I was I went down to work at the embassy for Customs TV Y. That's just for temporary duty assignment. And Karen came down with your brothers and they were going to go.

01:14:12.330 - 01:14:37.020

The Napoli let me paint the picture operation just cause, which is what went in and took Noriega out of country. Um, this is right after the six kicked off in the December 20th of 1989. She's talking about June or July of 1990 that she was down there working, so there were still bomb holes, and I mean, the remnants from the war were still very busy.

01:14:37.030 - 01:14:56.300

I went down to help with the office back together because the Marines had moved into the embassy and all the U. S. Customs styles had been transferred to Miami. So then they moved them back after the war, and they needed, you know, personnel down there to help put the office back together.

01:14:56.310 - 01:15:12.460

So I was there for 45 days, and I told my family, you know, now It's the time to come down to the sea. Panama to visit and everything. And I mean, there were still the military patrolling the canal zone. And, um but I want to tell the night that you went to then athlete.

01:15:12.470 - 01:15:29.180

You know, I just heard the story after way had just revived. And so what we would typically do we would get there and we would go straight to Napoli pizza, because that was where everybody wanted to go. But now the area where the original Napoli was in was in a very bad area.

01:15:29.180 - 01:15:47.400

A lot of drugs, crack addicts, Um, streetwalkers just a really area had totally, um, changed, um had been bombed and everything else from during the war. And so we still wanted to go there because the restaurant was still open. And that's where we grew up going.

01:15:47.400 - 01:16:03.680

So, you know, we just still felt like we could go there. You know, we could just don't wear your jewelry and stuff. So my own my sister in law. Who? My brother and her We're not married yet. This was a trip he was gonna propose to her on, um, she had never been to Panama had no idea.

01:16:03.690 - 01:16:18.060

So we took her there and she's mortified. Just by the nature of the area we're going into were like, Oh, it's no big deal, It'll be fine. So we get into the way, parked the car, there's a whole group of us and we're going into the restaurant.

01:16:18.060 - 01:16:37.450

All of sudden we hear gunfire. And so there is a local security guard out on the street quarter, and we hear the gunfire and people running. And then there's people that are sitting on the outer, the outside tables of the restaurant. They just get under the table on their grabbed, literally grabbing the pizza off the table and eating it under the tables.

01:16:37.530 - 01:16:59.980

We go running inside the restaurant. My sister in law, Carson, is going, Oh, my God, what issue? She's telling my brother, What did you bring me to s? So I take her and we go into the bathroom and I tell her, Get on the toilet, stand up on the toilet so nobody can see your feet because I immediately was thinking that if the person comes in, then they won't see it, you know that they're just looking to shoot people.

01:16:59.980 - 01:17:17.930

If we're on the toilet seat, they're not gonna see anybody in this off. So we're on the toilet seat standing there and then I don't know where the men went or whatever. We just ran into the future with eso Finally eso Finally we came out and there was no more gunfire.

01:17:17.930 - 01:17:45.740

And it was a teenager, some young juvenile robbing a taxi. So the security guard was shooting at him. But just shooting out in the open like the wild, wild West, you know? And so wow, tell you one thing about was very different. Growing up about being Azzoni in, you have to experience something that really makes you Azzoni in, and that's walking barefoot through the grass and step in a fresh pile of dog.

01:17:45.730 - 01:18:03.990

Well, I think the other thing is going on the black sand beaches up in the beach is literally you'd be walking into the white sandals and you come upon blacks and I could remember my friends and I we literally one time there were three of us and we didn't have shoes.

01:18:03.990 - 01:18:19.500

And we had It was so hot. It was burning our feet and we tried to sit But it was scalding us, and we saw a paper plate that was trash, and we grabbed the paper plate and I was the tallest. So they climb my to my friends climbed on top of each other.

01:18:19.500 - 01:18:35.410

Then they got on my back, and then I stood on the paper plate and then we would run a little bit. I'm holding them stand on the paper plate, run a little bit, wait until we could get just either the water. I don't remember we went to the water or where we went to, but off the black sand, because it was going to burn.

01:18:35.410 - 01:18:55.640

I mean, it was scalding us. One of the things I just wanted to mention real quick, because I know our time is up, but living down there with, um, disturbances in Panama City was a common thing. So you would hear Oh, they're rioting on Babel Avenue and that was that went right in front of the U.

01:18:55.640 - 01:19:15.770

S. Embassy say Okay, well, we wanna go shopping or we wanna go see our friends. So we'll just stay off Babbo Avenue because, you know, they're rioting over there. And that's the way you live your life when you know there were there were riots over whatever issues that the people in Panama I felt there was a lot of there was an anti America, anti Americans.

01:19:15.780 - 01:19:31.870

Yeah, one of our my good friends lost the night because he got caught in one of the They were in a movie and came out There were riots. Um, but we lived our life off and on with things like that. So you never really You took it seriously.

01:19:31.870 - 01:19:49.660

You just stayed away. But it was a common occurrence, you know? I mean, common, I'd say probably once every six months, that it would buy it over some issue. But that was that was mainly in the late fifties, the mid to late fifties. And that's where all the political influence, right?

01:19:49.720 - 01:20:14.580

Who was The politicians would fire the beef. But even when I lived there as an adult, I was Christmas shopping on this one road that was called Avenida Central. Um, you could get stuff like jeans for a dollar. I mean, it was this place where you would get all these deals on Christmas shopping, and all of a sudden, this lady in a store goes, You need to, you know, in Spanish was told me to come in here, come in here.

01:20:14.580 - 01:20:31.700

And she put me in a dressing room and there was this group. This martyrs group that was marching was the anniversary of just cause on. They were doing a big demonstration coming down this mean, um, shopping area because I looked American. She was worried and concerned for me.

01:20:31.700 - 01:21:11.090

And so she pulled me into her store and put me in the dressing room until they went on by one of our very close friends that carrying we grew up together. Their Children are Children. Um, our friend Candy was shot and killed right in the invasion when they first went in, Um, they were driving home late at night, and it was one o'clock from a Christmas party and two people stepped out of the bushes by opera care for space, and they shot shot at the car and she was hit and died almost instantly, but and there were a lot of other Americans killed as well.

01:21:11.510 - 01:21:31.240

During that time. It was a sad time for everyone, and Panamanians were killed as well. And Karen's husband was one of the Airborne troops had jumped in a just cause. He went to work one morning, Didn't know. Thought he was gonna come home for dinner that night and never came home for dinner That was on the plane going to Panama.

01:21:31.250 - 01:21:41.430

Okay, Um Oh, well, so much for your Yeah, I wish we had pleasure. Figure all your stories.