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Good afternoon. This is Sarah Blanck, and I'm here with Mr Robert Robin. Sorry, Moreland. And it is July 7th, 2011. Mr. Moreland, can we start just with some basic details about where you were born and your parents history. Okay. My mother came to Panama in 1916.

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She was the daughter of one of the 1st 50 Panama Canal pilots taking ships through the Panama Canal. She was four years old and a She came down with three other sisters, a brother and her mother and dad from Brooklyn, New York. My father came out in 1929 toe work in a shipping agency in Panama.

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Not the company that he actually came out to work for two years later on a permanent basis. Uh, firstly, he came in 1929 toe work for another company on a two year basis, and then he, uh, was finished and because they had other people coming out.

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So he went back to the England. He was, uh he was from across the mercy of Liverpool. He was from a place called Birkenhead. Anyway, so he, uh he was sad to go back because he had already met my mother, who was like a junior in high school.

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And anyway, they they wrote longhand, of course letters and what have you. But then the company that he came out to permanently worked for in 1931 hired him on a permanent basis. So and that was the condition. If he came out that it wouldn't be a two year and be permanent.

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So the company that I worked that I worked for now Charles Butler, Fenton and Company CB Fenton and Company and hired him to come out. And so he started to work there in 1931. And by that time my mother had graduated from high school in the Panama Canal Zone and she was like, 19 and they married in 1933.

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And my father was working on the Atlantic side, but my mother was going toe high school on the Pacific side. But anyway, eso when they got married in 33 she came out, my mother came over and they had, In short, they had six kids, two boys and four girls, and my father moved up the ladder with CB Fenton and company to the point where he purchased the company in 1958.

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And, uh, then he, uh Then I started working in 1963. I'm a Miami hurricane. Sorry, But anyway, I went to school there for a year and on. Then I went to a small school in North Carolina, and then after I wasn't really school material, I was okay, s So I went back to work and started in 1963.

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And I'm still with the same company today. With the exception of two years in the late sixties, I went to South Africa anyway, so I came back and started working again after the 20 months and I've been there ever since. Uh, we, uh, were always deemed by the Panama Canal Authority's being the Canal Zone government or the Panama Canal Company to be somewhat integral to their operation of the vessels through the Panama Canal.

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And so many shipping agents were ah, lot of certain areas of the canal zone toe have their businesses, and we could also have homes in the canal zone, not of Panama canal housing or anything but separate areas where we could build our own, uh, places of residence.

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So we were very fortunate in that regard we were issued. Uh, I think they call them authority cards in those days, but we could shop in the commissaries. We could do everything that people dependence of Panama Canal company personnel also could do. So we were zone Ian's and very happy and proud to have been one.

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Like all of my American friends, I think and talk like an American. But I am not. I'm British and Panamanian, but and I'm still down there and I'm working with the company trying to sell it. Now we're on good feet, and, uh, we're in a former U S.

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Air Force base area now, which is a economic zone. And, uh so we still worked with ships going through the Panama Canal, and I was very I think that we, the family and everybody who was born and raised down there all the dependence of Panama Canal company personnel have been very fortunate to have been raised in the canal zone and have had three experience of going into the Republic of Panama and seeing how life was over there on do the benefits on and the good life that Americans were able.

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Thio lead. Uh, it showed how lucky that we were eso being in a private company in the in the canal zone. My father and my mother and father partied Part took much in life in the Republic of Panama, whereas I feel that there were a few zone Ian's that wouldn't go outside the area of the five mile each side of the canal.

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But it was a very unique utopia place because way had our own police, our own customs, our own. And I'm sure you've heard all this so But for private companies, we didn't have to pay any corporate income tax or personal income tax to the United States.

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So that is a that right, because I'm probably different from the other zone Ian's that you meet here that are all in the in here. But I'm just like them. And I know many of them and their family. And but I was different as well as my sisters and my brother.

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So So I have always been proud to be a zoning and just like them, and they've accepted me, you know. But Jo Jo Wood is very special, and he's a very good friend of my brother in law Burnt meat, who's a seminal. But anyway, they live together over in Tallahassee, but not together, but how side by side.

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So basically, I went to high school there, and I went to, you know, um, for a year and then a small school in North Carolina. And then I came back to work in Panama in 1963 and I've lived there ever since. And it's right now. It's a booming area, and the canal, under Panamanian hands has really exceeded many expectations.

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And they're doing a wonderful job, whereas under American government, it was doing the job it was supposed to do. But it wasn't a business. And, uh, therefore, decisions made me take a day or two. Whereas in Panama now they make decisions like that. Okay, you can while the ship is deep down and you've got to get that fixed.

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Otherwise, you can't transit, but they'll give decisions within hours. Whereas in the with the U. S. Government, you know, it was, uh I don't want to say bureaucracy, but well, I have to call my boss, but he's not in this afternoon. I'll speak to him in the morning they wouldn't even call him a tonight.

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But eso uh, when the Panamanian government took over in the year 2000, we've seen a lot of different things happen. That's one of the reasons my brother retired. Hey, preferred to work it under the American system. So, uh, but anyway, things were going well and they're widening the canal, as you know, Sarah, and, uh, it's ah, it's a very busy place to be right now.

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And apart from the canal, other things. They're just growing their banking and investment. What have you so way feel fortunate to have been brought up in that area born and raised there, and, uh, and to have been zone Ian, I'll always be proud of that. And there are fewer of us as time goes on.

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But, uh, I'm very happy about the Panama Canal Museum and you all picking up the ball to help out in the support of the museum, because the American era should never die. And, uh, and you all should be with that 100%. And it's very easy for me just to say that, but it's very important in Panama.

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Uh, has a tendency. The Republic of Panama has a tendency to They feel that and their ancestors were course to give this piece of land in exchange for some money, maybe underhanded to a Panamanian official, and to protect them against the Colombian government who won't Panama was just a province of the Colombian government.

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So and so a lot of the Panamanians blame their forefathers for having, But where would they? I mean, they are making so much money with the canal now, but, you know, they just don't, uh they just don't like Thio. Come forward and admit that. And they consider the liberation off Panama in 1989 when Noriega was taken out by the Americans.

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They deem it an invasion, you know, into their sovereign territory. Uh, so there's there's there's some hard feelings there, Andi, I can understand both sides. Uh, but without the use a, there would be no Panama Canal. There would be no, uh, there would be no Panama Canal operated very well now by Panamanians, but, uh, they don't want to include that in a lot of their history.

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They have a museum down there. I don't know if you've been down there, but they have a museum in Panama, but they touch on the American era, but not in the way that they should be proud of. It's part of their history. It's fact. But anyway, maybe I'm talking too much.

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Uh, but anyway, it is operating well now. And I'd have to say even a little bit better, quicker while a wide in the canal ships were still getting through on and and in this very fast world. Now, with technology, you just have to be, uh, in our business.

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You have to be on the ball. We have a lot of competition. What we do, Sarah, we way we receive tolls money on behalf of our principles. We probably do about about 110 ships. 105 110 ships a month. We're probably number six out of about 30 25 or 30 agents.

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Um, we had bigger business before we had Merced, who opened up their own office after 74 years. We had them. You've heard of Maersk shipping anyway? They were the owners of that ship that got hijacked off Somalia about 22 years ago. Mark Alabama. I think it was, but anyway, uh, we had some good clients, and we lost them because they not through anything that we did wrong.

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But we lost them because, uh, the world got smaller and they opened their own offices there. However, eso we more or less baby sitter ship when she comes to the canal or he comes to whatever you wanna call the ship. So the owner will send us tolls money instead of dealing directly with the canal.

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They go through an agent. And so we received that money from the owner. And then we pay the tolls to the Panama Canal authorities so that that ship can go through the canal, and then we take men to the doctor and we deliver cash to the master if they need provisions in the way of foods or whatever they need.

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We, uh, ensure that they received these requests, uh, prior to their transit of the canal. Because of once you transit, you want to go straight to see instead of anchoring and waiting for. So you want to utilize the waiting time to start transit to take care of all the requirements taking men to the doctor and what have you and then back to the ship before the transit because normally there Delayed now about 45.

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Sorry, 24 to 48 hours entrance. So they come in and they wait. If they're not pre book, you can also book a ship or make a reservation to go through the canal. Ah, lot quicker than others. So you pay a premium to go through the canal with a reservation system.

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So, um, so that's basically what we do. So we pay all the invoices on behalf of the ship owner, and and for this, we assess a fee, regardless of how big or small vessel. Maybe it could be a yacht. It could be a 200,000 ton ship.

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All the paperwork is the same. So we charge a fee. Not, uh, not in accordance with the vessels size, but in accordance with the work that we have to be. Oh, so it's very competitive. And you said there's 20 or 30 so companies Yeah, I'd say 25 shipping agencies and we're just one.

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And did they did they very drastically in the type of services that they provide, Or are they pretty much the same responsibilities, Same responsibilities same responsibilities it used to be. We handle mawr Scandinavian companies, but it's now basically, uh, European, which is part of this kind of navy is part of that, but European and Asian and not too many Americans, Because the merchant Marine of the United States is not too much anymore.

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Uh, so, yes, all the agencies, they're supposed to do the same kind of work. And many shipowners, uh, may not be happy with one agent may change to another agent because of the poor service they may receive from another agent. So but our tariffs are back to 1988.

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It's very competitive. So we don't increase our rates because we don't want to give more room to those that will undercut, you know? So s so It's tough. It's very tough, but we're doing okay. All right? Yeah. Um, to go away back. Eso you went? You went through all of your schooling up until high school in the ozone?

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Yes, eso When you were in American schools that whole time? Yes, I was. And the Canal Zone or Panama Canal people that was part of their They were dependence of their parents working for the Panama Canal, so it didn't cost them anything but my dad being private business.

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He had to pay tuition, and but we were. He was happy to do that because the schooling was so much better than in those days than what we would get in the Republic of Panama. And you also had wealthy Panamanian students that would come to those schools to Yes, that is very correct.

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Lots of Panamanians went to those schools, and they also paid tuition just like my dad. Was it a little more socioeconomically diverse than it sounds? Or was it pretty much like the top tier of the Panamanian studio? I would say definitely no, I would say there was a lot of top tier that didn't go to the Canal Zone schools either.

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And I would say more middle class Thio top tier, uh, went to Canal Zone schools, but I wouldn't say all of them by any means. I would say, uh, toe a lesser les lesson. 30% of them went to canals on schools because, uh on there's some fine fine schools in the Republic of Panama, even in those days.

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But I had a lot of I think more Panamanians went to school when I was in high school in the fifties and the sixties. Hello. She's the paparazzi. You can just ignore her. Thank you. S o. Not all of them went. Not all the hierarchy are higher.

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Archy or the middle class went to school in the canal zone because they were basically for dependence of Panama Canal company personnel. So, uh uh, and I was one of them. I was I am Panamanian. But I was one of those that were fortunate enough to go there and my dad being in business with, they felt my dad's business was integral to the fluidity of the ships going through the canal.

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So we were very, very fortunate. Thio grow up in the canal zone with a lot of my American friends, and, uh, and I think we got preference over Panamanians because we were integral to shipping eso My dad, uh, we could have gone to school in the Republic of Panama to, but my mom being from Brooklyn and my dad just preferred for us to go to the American schools there.

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Do you remember anything from your history classes in the schools from my history. Basically, it was the history that they were. It wasn't history about Panama or anything like that. It was worldwide history that you would have learned in the United States schools. It was taught as if we were not in the Republic of Panama.

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It was taught as if we were in the United States. Okay, so do you have civics and yeah, just like, just like they wanted to make it a much American as possible. Yeah, there were some things about Panama, but they didn't really focus that much on the Republic of Panama.

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They focused on worldwide history. And what did you graduate from? High school when? Yes, 1960. Okay. And then So you were out of the country then during the riots there you were in college, correct? I came back. The riots were in 64 and I came back in 63 s.

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So I was there and yeah, that was very a tough time. I blame both sides and a and I think that sort of the Americans said, you know, there's gonna always be problems now, and I think that that was, uh so I think it was decided then under LBJ, Lyndon Baines Johnson Kennedy was assassinated, assassinated in 63.

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The riots were January 9th 64 and I think they said that they would have to make a deal with Panama sooner or later and then kissing her, I think made some comments under Nixon in the early seventies that he'd like to move this up from the back burner.

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And then Carter got a hold of it and hey, just moved it straight to the front on DNA made the deal. And, uh, there's been a lot of American rejection of what has happened. Even Reagan. When he was running, he didn't win. But when he was running for the Republican nomination against the uh Ford, who took over when Nixon was left office not impeached, but he resigned from the presidency.

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Ford took over, but Ronald Reagan ran against Gerald Ford for the Republican nomination in 76 he, um, he beat Reagan. But Reagan always said, I will never give away the Panama Canal to this tin horn dictator Omar Torrijos, who overthrew a Democratic government in the late sixties in Panama.

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But anyway, on then, Carter just moved it up when he became president in 80 or 76. Actually, he beat Gerald Ford, who had beaten Reagan. And then Carter became president and he just he just moved the treaty up. And that happened in 77 they signed it in 77.

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And it started in 79 October 79 where we would have dual policeman, a Panamanian and American policemen in a car until 30 months later, October until April of 82. And then Panamanians were controlling. Panamanian police were controlling the canal zone until the year 2000, when the when the treaty actually went, the full treaty went into effect where Panama was doing everything for our post office hospitals.

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What happened? Um, it Zibin it's been OK to live through all of this, and Thio have experienced it. I'm really happy to have spent all my time down there on, uh but do look forward one day to moving up here. It's just the American era is over.

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Ah, lot of my friends. I see if these reunions and I have a lot of Panamanian friends also, uh, but I just sort of like to start another chapter of my life and moved to North Carolina, where I have a home already. But E will always go back to Panama in January, February, March of every year.

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It's the dry season there. It's a nice time of the year. It doesn't rain that much, and it's cooler in North Carolina. I don't like the coat, Uh, but I've got a lot of friends, and I'm thankful for them. But now, actually, you know, the last couple of years it's been an eye opener for me because I see a lot of Canadians coming into Panama now and and Americans coming in there buying businesses.

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And I'm meeting a lot of people now. I said, G, should I leave here? I'm a golfer. I like to play golf and I don't play that much now because I'm very busy in the business. But it's still a great place. If I don't like the States, I'm going back to Panama.

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But I know I like the States. I know I like. I spent a lot of time in North Carolina, and I know the state has been there for the winter and I've been there for the winter and pretty brutal. But anyway, no only through December. We've had a couple of tough December's, including last December.

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It snowed, but and I just don't like the cold weather. But anyway, Panama is always, you know, 85 to 95 you'll get rain or sunshine and breezy. And it's nice, you know, but and I know the Panamanians and what to expect and not where to go in certain days.

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And they're protesting in the streets. That's the way it ISS, you know, and that's how you cope with that. And so it's not as orderly as the United States. Of course, you know E think you know, it's really interesting. Just among the handful of people that I've spoken with today, I've you know, I always get Thio.

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What did you do after the treaty? How did you feel after the treaty? And I've gotten everything from people like you who say, Oh, you know, I still live there And then I've had people who said, You know, I left immediately. I took my wife and kids and I didn't feel safe in the country anymore.

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And I just think it's bizarre that there's such a huge difference between this. Yeah, actually, I I don't blame people who left right away when the treaty was signed because rumors were rife that you're gonna lose your job. You better find something for your family in the States.

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And so a lot of people left thinking that they would be a rift are, uh, reduction in force. And and it's turned out that there still Americans that never left and there's no and none of them have been fired. In other words, they're making. In fact, I was speaking with the fellow that your partner is interviewing now and he just spoke to a Panama Canal pilot.

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American guy taking ships through the canal. They're making $1000 a day a day because over time is so much and they're just raking it in. And Panama has kept the American pilots. But when they leave, they replaced them with Panamanian pilots. So, uh, Onley the people who lost their jobs, uh, they would be put into another position.

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You know, if you were a customs for years and years, well, they would never reduce your salary, but you may have to do something entirely different. That is not your expertise. But they wouldn't release you. So a So I feel badly for the people who were told that they better get out and find something in the States because you're going to get fired.

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And by the time you get fired, all those jobs that are available in the States would be taken. It didn't turn out that way. And many people are very sad that they left Panama so hurriedly. And those people who told you that? Yeah, things have changed, but they're down there.

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They're happiest. Leave me. Really? Really. Life is good. I mean, life is good. You have the Panamanian supermarkets or up to speed. Uh, we're doing OK. We're many. In many ways, we're Third World, still many ways, but they're really moving up the ladder fast for, uh, number one economy actually number two in all of Latin America.

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Chile's number one, Panama's number two and number one by far in Central America. If you go to the if you go to the Panama City and you, then you go to San Jose, Tegucigalpa, San Salvador, these other capitals Managua of these other Central American countries. I mean, it's it's night and day.

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Panama is booming. Really Cosmo and beautiful malls. When you go to these other countries, they just don't have it, you know? So we're living in a dynamic. Uh, yeah. Mm. Atmosphere. Right now in Panama, we had a big boom about seven years ago, and then it sort of went down, uh, and then for a couple of years, And then it started back about three years ago, and it's beach resorts are going to breeze is is there now?

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Not that breeze is a big deal, But, I mean, things were going, things were moving. They're making some areas that used to be militant US military bases, international airports now so that people don't have to go into the republic to Panama City and then catch another flight or a bus or taxi up there.

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So a a lot of things. They're going forward very rapidly on bond. It's a note, but it's dangerous. Security is pretty bad down there now. And, uh so, uh, I live in a very quiet area because I'm a very quiet guy now, but I would never go into places I used to go.

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Now it's very dangerous. You got Colombians, Venezuelans there Now that security is that bad? Crime is bad, so you just have to be careful. But the areas where the nice hotels are and what have You can walk outside but be with somebody you know, but it's not the safe place it used to be.

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A. That's actually the first time someone was mentioned Something about that. Oh yeah, it's not. It's not safe it all. I read about it all the time. I read the three Spanish papers every day, and I pick up a lot of what's going on. And there's a lot of things that they don't like to publish because they don't want tourism.

00:29:03.330 - 00:29:29.580

Thio leave people tourism over two million tourists a year now. So what's that? About 600 a day, maybe something like that. That that come on into the Republic of Panama, Uh, spend money in the hotels and what happened? I think each day is about three or four days, and maybe they spent 80 to $100 a day, uh, which I don't think includes their hotel rate.

00:29:29.590 - 00:29:50.910

So people are, I tell you, retail is very strong in Panama. You mentioned in the late sixties the overthrow of the Democratic movement there. Were you already involved in your company at that time? Yes, I started in 63. And, uh, yes, there was an overthrow, but it had no effect on the canal operations.

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No effect whatsoever. Ships kept going through the canal zone. Government was fine. People came the work, and it was pretty quiet. Uh, take over. Let me say something else. Also in in the late eighties, before Noriega was taken out and that would have been 89 9 89 December of 89 with the United States government did, because they were still operating the Panama Canal.

00:30:20.240 - 00:30:42.320

And so all the banks shut down in 88. This is before the the invasion or the liberation. And what the United States did is that agents usedto have guarantees up for their money. And what have you but the banks, uh, shut down for, like, 44 days in the Republic of Panama?

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Noriega said No. You can't do this and that, and they shut down. And there was no way for agents to receive money from Copenhagen or Oslo or Seoul or Tokyo toe guarantee for this vessels to go through the canal and the U. S. Government took agents word that when the banks re opened, they would be repaid for all the ships.

00:31:08.080 - 00:31:27.830

So that went through the canal. So the U. S government accepted on credit because our credit used to go through the banks and the and the canal Zone government used to deal only with the banks and not with the agent. So the banks are behalf used to put up for guarantee the all the vessel expenses.

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So there were no banks anymore, so people would fly to Miami and bring in cash of 8000. So they pay their employees. And what have you but the U. S government allowed? I think about I'm not sure the amount 15 or $20 million worth of ship tolls to go through without receiving any money.

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And then when everything got back to normal and the banks reopened and what have you they were repaid every penny. But it showed, and a lot of people don't know that the United States did that. I mean, they took so that they would not interfere with with a worldwide ship traffic to affect worldwide, uh, shipowner operations and produce getting to other ports.

00:32:17.720 - 00:32:39.160

And what happened? They allowed ships to go through the canal without receiving any money. US government, Really? And not many. And I think people know that. But Panamanians know that. But they don't, uh, make it a point to say, How would the United States did in that instance, that was wonderful.

00:32:39.170 - 00:32:58.800

It was about 44 days. The banks were closed. Was that was that under Reagan that was under an 88. That would have been under while that was 88 89 Reagan and then, uh, who came after Reagan was Bush, Right. So it would have been the Republicans anyway.

00:32:58.810 - 00:33:25.320

Yeah, so they didn't wonderfully, really. And they got every penny from the agents, and some agents did establish accounts in New York and in Miami. But the US wasn't receiving any of that money for the for the tolls. And so our accounts, when we moved when we had to open accounts our accounts when sky high, without paying the United States government until the banks re opened in Panama.

00:33:25.320 - 00:33:44.320

And then we sent that money all the way to our banks, and then we pay the U. S. government. So, uh, that was very interesting time also. Yeah. So when you go back to the zone now, what is there is the former canal. So it's not the zone anymore.

00:33:44.320 - 00:34:01.720

They call it the former. The panel means call it the canal area. And it's really the official name is a former canal zone on. Uh So when I go back there now, yes, Your question Waas What is it? Is it still a portrait of its old self?

00:34:01.720 - 00:34:28.350

Is there a lot that's been taken away or changed? Um, many of the areas are still the same, but it's not as clean as it used to be. The US ran the canal, Um, sometimes at a surplus. Sometimes they were they were in debt, but they whatever surplus they had, they used to build tennis courts and whatever.

00:34:28.350 - 00:34:49.110

For canal people, it was not supposed to be a profit making organization. It was a canal constructed for worldwide shipping, and they did a wonderful job, but it wasn't a business, so they weren't interested in making money. They wanted to break even but cover all their expenses for to make life, uh, fine in the canal zone.

00:34:49.120 - 00:35:11.080

for the people who worked for the Canal Zone government. And there were many Panamanians also that worked for the Canal Zone government. I think four out of five employees were Panamanians. But I think the workforce was 89 10,000 people in the canal zone and eso maybe maybe 2000 more Americans or 3000?

00:35:11.090 - 00:35:37.860

I'm not sure, but, uh, s O many areas are still the same, and the buildings are older now and not kept, you know, maintain a Zwelithini. Americans kept them, but it still looks very much the same in some areas have changed. I live in an area that the F a a built in the late forties Federal Aviation Authority.

00:35:37.870 - 00:35:55.350

And then they turned over that area in 54 to the Canal Zone government, Panama, Panama Canal Company and I live out in this area now, and I like it very much. But the housing that was constructed in the canal zone by the American people was very solid.

00:35:56.140 - 00:36:20.380

Uh, not needing much repair. I mean, the building where my mom came toe lived when she was four years old in 1916 is still right there. I mean, poured concrete. I mean, really strong. Excuse me. So, uh, the Americans really established something really good there, and much of it is still there.

00:36:20.380 - 00:36:38.900

All the army, air Force, naval and Marine bases were there. And now Panama owns all that. In fact, we now live in a four. We now work out of a former U. S. Air Force Base on the other side of the canal on the West Bank called.

00:36:38.910 - 00:37:01.670

It was called Howard Air Force Base. But now a company called Panama Pacific oh, has established through the government of Panama Panama law that anybody can move in there and not pay any taxes. If all of your business is international, we don't have one local, one Panamanian client, except taxi drivers that we pay.

00:37:01.680 - 00:37:16.820

Pay them and what have you. And we add a little bit for insurance. And what have you to build a ship owner? Um, because it costs, You know, we pick up crew members of the airport, take them the hotel next day, pick them up, take them to the ship that is coming in.

00:37:16.830 - 00:37:34.270

Then crew members come off and we take them to the hotel or straight to the airport so way. We're thinking of having our own van service, but didn't want to get into that in case of an accident. So even though you could get insurance, but they wanna limit your liability.

00:37:34.280 - 00:38:05.340

So on Panama, traffic is awful. Their driver's air. Terrible, terrible, really. But anyway, eso we are in this tax free area now, and, uh, benefiting from we used to pay taxes. Now we won't have to pay taxes. And I think the Republic of Panama has granted us permission to go in there because they want other international maritime companies coming from overseas to go into this economic area.

00:38:05.520 - 00:38:28.330

It's a 40 year least least that the people who are operating Panama Pacific all are called London and regional Panama. And it was the former Howard Air Force Base, which was the largest U. S Air Force base in the Republic of Panama. My sister, by the way, who Joe would knows very well.

00:38:28.520 - 00:38:55.140

And his wife, Bev uh, she was the South Southern Command. I think South com is in Miami now, or South. Maybe they're in home state, But she was the four star general secretary. She was secretary of Wesley Clark. Barry McCaffrey, Who was the drugs are, uh, George Jawan, who speaks on CNN from time to time about what's going on in Afghanistan and direct.

00:38:55.150 - 00:39:20.760

What is your sister's name? My sister's name is Mary Coffee. Okay, Mary Coffee. And she was the South com secretary, uh, for the four star general who was in charge of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines for about 25 years, 25 years. And anyway, and she'll be here tonight.

00:39:20.770 - 00:39:40.740

I understand she's coming, and she's been in the States for about a month, visiting her youngest son in Kansas and now Michael Coffee. Have you met this guy, Michael Coffee. He's got something to do with this reunion here, but maybe not. But he's, uh, he's, uh, very much involved with the Panama Canal Society.

00:39:41.020 - 00:40:00.040

Uh, but anyway, that's her son. And, uh, and Mary doesn't normally come to these, And she was here last year. So, uh, so I'm surprised that she's gonna come again. I don't normally come. I normally come here maybe once every three or four years, and especially when my class has.

00:40:00.010 - 00:40:18.530

I just had my 50th class reunion last year, but I made a commitment. I told somebody I would be here this year, so I'm here. But I didn't really wanna be here. But anyway, I'm a person of my word. But it's nice to come here, and I bumped into a lot of people today.

00:40:18.530 - 00:40:40.630

I'm glad I came on and happy to do this on behalf of the Panama Canal Museum in the area. Is there anything else that you wanted to share before we wrap up the interview? Uh, really? You know, if there's anything I can email you or something like that, I think I'm more or less.

00:40:40.640 - 00:41:03.330

Uh um, told you something about my life in the Panama Canal, which was a little bit different than other people who you all have interviewed because I'm sure most of the people that you've interviewed have either worked for the Panama Canal or were dependence uh, Panama Canal personnel who were working with the canal.

00:41:03.410 - 00:41:25.210

Whereas I was in private business in the canal. So and we benefited a lot from shopping in the comedies and what have you whereas a my father and, uh, some people were jealous of the fact that we were able to operate in the canal zone and not pay corporate or personal income taxes to the Republic of Panama.

00:41:25.220 - 00:41:47.130

Uh, and on they have to shop in Panamanian stores, which are very nice. And what have you but imports when you import something nice and there's a supermarket there that has great American variety there. But the prices air like double what you would buy them for in the stores Here s O.

00:41:47.610 - 00:42:12.910

We've had a unique life down there. Arizonians have been They will never forget their time there. And when you first hit Panama even today, I mean, you like it, Okay, but it really grows on a person. And there's many people who don't wind up disliking Panama are It was and is still, despite all the changes in the canal not being American anymore and what?

00:42:12.910 - 00:42:33.170

How? It's still a great place to live. But there are people who will not return because it's not the way it waas. And that's pretty sad because they only liked it their way. And I include a good friend of Joe Woods, and that person is my brother in law, who lives in Tallahassee.

00:42:33.180 - 00:43:04.150

He's a big F S U guy and, you know, Joe is a University of Florida guy and they live next to each other in Tallahassee. So this is probably a conversation. Well, but Joe is an easy going guy, and he's a great, great guy. And I was really happy to donate to the this latest cost that they had and really happy about the University of Florida really coming in to keep this thing burning for many, many years.

00:43:04.210 - 00:43:17.740

And I think it za wonderful thing. Okay, I'll just wrap this up once again. This was Sarah Blanck here with Mr Robin Moreland, and it's july 7th 2011.