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okay. I wonder if we could start by having you give me your full name. I'm Roberta Adele Hollander. Okay. And married. Um, Hyphenated Williamson hyphen Moscow. And my father was Charles Sanford. Hollander, born in 18 92 came to the zone the first time in February of 1918.

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Daddy was one of the founders of the Canal Zone Credit union. Daddy also was a Boy Scout leader, and I have his card from the registration in August of 1918 with the Boy Scout Troop one. And after his time in his own daddy was not a Roosevelt metal holder.

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Hey, did leave the zone, but he went back in 1929. Hey, was there one of his positions was working with three different divisions. He was with the municipal engineers, um, and to other divisions. And I think he was one of the few people that ever worked at three different divisions.

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And one of his jobs was to supervise the mess and the construction at Madden Dam. When I was, he met my mother, who was a nurse who came down. Her name was Eleanor friend Hollander, and she came to the zone in 1929 as a nurse. Gorgas, uh, they married in 1931 August of 31 15th.

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And I was born on July 18th of 1932 we left from Pedro McGill. When I was born, they went to We lived in a hut, Um, in Madden Dam, which was a very small community of probably five or six families, Max, Uh, they no longer exist.

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Of course, they've become jungle now. And at that time, there was also a family named Clots. Uh, Kathy Klotz and my mother being a nurse, former nurse was friends with many of the physicians wives. Um, she knew, um, Samson. Dr. Sampson. Um, they're Irma Forbes thes air, all kids who they seem to have kids about the same time I was born.

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And I'm part of the class of 50 about the high school and our class. This year, incidentally, is having what we're calling the ultimate reunion because we're meeting with the 40 Niners fifties 51 52 53. Wow, that's crazy s o. That's enough. What? What else you like?

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Thio. I have a little sister, incidentally, who is also attending her name is Rose Mary Louise Hollander, and she will be here today. Her married name is McCorkell and Rosemary was born in 1936 and we moved from Madden Dam in 1936 and moved to the Heights.

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We lived on Mindy ST which overlooked the what was the airport, um, and were there until 1937. Moved to Florida. Moved back in 1940. But Daddy stayed on with the Zone three. Beginning of World War Two, getting creamed up for the war. My mother, little sister and I were stuck in Jacksonville from 19 of 41 until 1945.

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Jacksonville, Florida, Jacksonville, Florida. But Daddy was in the zone the whole time. And during that period he worked on the messes for the troops coming through and, of course, continued his work with the Emmy Division and during, um, that period. He still and was one of the founders of the credit union, Three canals on credit union.

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And, uh, my father was I was telling my granddaughter here that Daddy had to safe in his room and people would come who had a death in the States, and they would ask Daddy for money. And Dr Sampson was one of the people that had initiated the founding of the Canal Zone Credit union.

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Daddy had some prior banking experience, and he continued with that until he retired in 1953. They built a beautiful building, Uh, what was used to be fourth of July Avenue, but it's in the zone. But they did build the beautiful Canal Zone credit union building before Daddy retired.

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And he went on to do six or seven other credit unions after he retired in 53. Um, I graduated from Balboa High School in 1950. What was the high school like during those Balboa High Waas? The canal zone was, like, never, never land. We never had a dirty street.

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Everything was immaculate. It was run by the military, and we had several generals that handled things. Um, if the kid was bad, the kid was deported. You didn't have bad kids stay in the canal zone. I was in a Mariner troop. We had our little sailboats.

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Um, at Balboa High School. I was makeup editor of the parakeet, if you know what the parakeet was? The parakeet was our high school newspaper. And during the year that I was a senior. Bert Page was one of our artist with the parakeet. Mary Brigham, Mary s Brigham was the sponsor, and we did see Panama first.

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And at that time we were very lucky. We did. We and my friends, we did Panama and we went with We said We got with the ambassador Murray Wise and we went to the museum and we went out in the boonies, places I had never been and featured Panama first in the high school.

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The high school was an air condition. In those days, three year that I was the eighth grader was three year. The Yankees came and we had Joe DiMaggio outside. I was taking, um, eighth grade. Spanish as a fresh is a It was seventh grade Spanish, but I was in eighth grader that year and I was on the second floor and we could look out and see the football state and where the ball field waas and we did have Joe DiMaggio and all the Yankees there, which would have been 19 right after World War two, probably 45 to 46 and a zai say the high school was not air conditioned.

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Things were pretty hot. We had in ROTC. The kids would parade out on the parade grounds. The there were girls who were classmates who were the sponsors of the guys. They had an excellent ROTC. I also was in theater, which was called the the Elbow Little Theater.

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The director was Seubert Turbie Phil and we called him Turbie or Mr Turbie and Mr Turbie had, um actually, we had some pretty good plays. They were done and through the high school on. And we also had music, which was Mr Branstad Er, and we called him Bran E.

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And one of the nice things was at Christmas time. The old Balbo Elementary School was the site of Christmas carols, and the girls would be dressed in long white dresses and carry candles on of the chorus for the high school Would sing at that, including the hallelujah chorus.

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Right. Um, what else about the high school? We had touch football they brought. It was the first year that, uh when I was there that we brought down Miami High School and the boys got really muddy out there. And the only other competitors of course were the junior college and cocoa of the Crystal Ball Bucks.

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Way also had Caribbean girl state. Are you familiar with boys and Girls State? I don't think so. Okay. In the United States, a certain jr is invited representative of his area, and they're very selective. Uh, my granddaughters, bigger brother is going to represent Florida and Titus.

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Well, at the boy state here in Florida. Anyway, we had Caribbean girl state, and it was the first year we ever had it. We had it out at one of the former Army bases, and they had to put, um, in the bathrooms. They didn't have doors, and they had to put canvas up for us.

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And the first year we lived in like, cabins. Um, and the second year, we were junior counselors for that, and it was fun because we had generals. I wrote the newsletter and I wrote, What was it? Something about munitions. And the word that I put was, uh I spelled the word wrong and everybody was hysterical because instead of going to the lecture on the guns, I wrote it in writing and everybody said, Hey, you didn't go because you spelled this and that isn't the word at all.

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It was. I can't think of the word of. It'll hit me later, but Caribbean Girls state had supposedly the representatives of either high school, and they elected a president, vice presidents, senators, etcetera, and, um, still have a little pin from that. What else would you like?

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Well, what you had mentioned on her way, way over what was like life, like for for women. I mean, well, my mother being a nurse and uneducated nurse. She had graduated from ST Vincent's nursing school in Birmingham the week of the ending of World War One.

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So she had had a career. She was born in 18 96. She got her appointment to the zone from Senator Lister Hill of Alabama. She was a private duty nurse, and she learned that there was something going on that she wanted to do. She'd had a unhappy romance, so she came down to the zone and I have her letters.

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My aunt in Alabama kept every letter from my mother, and she told those out to me when I would go visit and held in Coleman, which is actually this tornado that hit Oh, Coleman, I know what that is. My wife's family live in near on a on a Springville.

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The tornado hit the homestead that my grandfather built in a 1900 survived. My cousin's home was demolished in a newer home on the more fancy or end of Coleman, but the old place did not get anyway and held a doled out letters. So I have the letters.

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And there was a gentleman from Florida State who did do a dissertation on, um, not more discrimination but snobbishness of American women toward the Panamanians. And I think that he commented on that. I haven't read his dissertation, but I have a feeling that, um, one of my mother's comments was she was going to a ball and she was going to meet the queen of the Carnival who was black?

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Did she have to get down and curtsy and kiss the woman's hand on being a nurse? Um, a single in the zone in 1930 29 30 31 before she married, those nurses had a ball. And what she writes granted, there were some disadvantages. Theme, the weather.

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They went horseback writing. She was in a horse race. Uh, they were party. They were faded. She rode on a seaplane to the Sandblast Islands. And as you know, there was a long period when white people were not allowed to stay overnight between that period. And, um, lately Now you can.

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But at one time, you could not go to the islands, But she flew in a seaplane with pontoons, and I brought a piece of the mola that she brought it that time with me today for the Moola lady. But I think they had a wonderful time as nurses.

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They were, um one of the interesting things they had was that she wrote, You know, the admiral that was down at the South Pole, okay. She was a dental nurse at the hospital. Nurses did a lot of things She worked, took up babies, too. But when they came back from the north from the South Pole, the men had their teeth was or in bad shape.

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And my mom wrote in her letter how they cared for these men who had just stopped from the South Pole had come up to Gorgas Hospital for Care and Gorgas a few years ago. Uh, they did feature the nurses that gorgeous and the staff and all of us who were gorgeous babies, Got a little name tag at one of the reunions.

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A little pink win. If we were maybe a little blue. I have the name tag with me, dio, but I think for my mom, she did contract pneumonia. The dampness did get her. Um, she felt she was more comfortable in the States. Which is why, um, in 1940 when we decided to go back in fall of 41 we left and from the zone and went back to the States.

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Um, and we're stuck. During World War Two, Daddy was in the middle of the Pacific, the Caribbean, going back to the zone when Pearl Harbor was bombed and we were course forced to stay in Jacksonville. Daddy came home for four months because his own people, you know, got four month vacations.

00:14:08.510 - 00:14:27.270

You could save up your two months, and then you could come every couple of years instead of. And Daddy was the scout counselor at the local Boy Scout camp and she was camp nurse during part of 44 and 45. She died in 1947 she contracted patriotic cancer.

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Her nurse friends were still supportive. They were still there, many of them. And as far as she was concerned as a young single woman, I think they had a wonderful time as faras women in the zone. And being many officers, um, they had the pick of the crop.

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Now, when you were in high school Ah, you mentioned the is very high caliber of school. Our teachers all were at least a master's degree. And they were mainly the classes that we had were I'm trying to think of the word New York regions qualified. Okay?

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And that's what I understood. And Mr Holtz was our principal at the time of the kids that I ran with were all went to college. Um, most of them did go to school in the States. Not all of them. They had to take the big exams, just like they take s a.

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T s. Now, um, I know when I went to Colorado State College of Education, I didn't have to take freshman English. I collect it because I had my scores were so good. Uh, I didn't cite I wanted to be a teacher, So I transferred to Florida State.

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But I think that the education that we received in the zone, we had many friends. I was in the United Nations Club, a student whose parents were willing to pay the tuition from outside of the zone. I think it was $40 a month I wouldn't swear to.

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It did pay tuition. We would get kids come from re Immaculata, which was the Spanish Girls Educational School there. Many of the kids would go to boarding schools up north, Um, if they were upper class Panamanians. But we had the melting passed. We had the ambassador's daughter's come to our school, our princess, our homecoming queen, Jacqueline Blah.

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She was Swiss ambassador's. Anyway. We had a United Nations club, and it was wonderful. There were about 30 or 40 of them, and I was the only American girl in the club. And there was a great bit of patriotism at that time and international fellowship among us.

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Now, were you thinking about you mentioned teaching earlier? Were you beginning to think about a career in high school or, uh, I wanted to be 1/5 grade teacher, and I fell in love and the guy that I fell in love with us. A senior could not teach because he had papilloma of the larynx.

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And I said, If you can teach, what do you do for a living? Transferred to Florida State, They tested me with a round pegs in the square holes, and I went into business, and I ended up with a degree in personal administration. Um, was a management trainee for Sears, ended up in the 99th percentile of Sears employees as faras bosses.

00:17:42.900 - 00:18:24.910

You know, they tested me in Atlanta, but retail, Um, in those days, the reason I didn't like retail was you were either had too many people on the sales floor, and you were wasting money or you didn't have enough and you were losing money. I also fell in love with this young lady's grandpa and worked two years for Sears, decided not to get married, went to work in Jacksonville, went home to Daddy, licked my wounds, my perspective husband who was a vet signal grad event, um, came to see me before he went to France to study.

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Called the Day before he sailed, wasn't going to get on the ship. So I got on the ship. Three weeks later, the he went over and waited for me, and I got on the ship. We were married in Paris, France, on the 12th of October of 56.

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After that, I stayed home. I worked for nine months in Charleston, and because his parents lived in Charleston and then moved to Jacksonville and had six kids. Stayed home for 16 years. So that's why I never taught. But he ended up Is a teacher, okay? And an educator.

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That's interesting within India, Grant. Okay, So when you left now, you said you were the class of 1950 at Balboa High School. And did you return to Panama at any point? Or did you? I flew down in 1952 that he retired in 53. I flew down my senior year in Jack's from from actually from, Uh, was it from Colorado?

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No, It was from from Florida State. I flew down for a two week vacation. Um, I was taking shorthand. I was flunking shorthand. Um, my parents got ahold of the teacher with elbow high school, had her over to dinner. She did a little tutoring I passed the class with the C thank you.

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Balboa High School. And they also had Miss Brigham, of course, my teacher over back again, my faithful journalism teacher who I adored. And then I did not go back again until summer of 90. And it was right after operation. Just cause my oldest son works for Uncle Sam.

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He's in Department of Defense. Hey, ended up going to Monterey and in language, foreign language school, his specialty, his Spanish and he would do some replacements instantly. He is still working for Department of Defense, and he doesn't talk about what he does. But he's in Germany now with his wife and three kids.

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They have tried to get to Germany and they managed to get there. But Mark has been thio Nicaragua. Did Panamanian, um, vacation for some of the security people. So I went for three days in 1990 right after operation just cause Met Mark, he says, Okay, it's safe to come.

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There were young engines and guards for the embassy that had a house in downtown Panama, and we were in the banking quarter, and Mark ran every night downtown, where the statue of Balboa is. I said I would never have gone at night as a young girl in Panama.

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One doesn't, um he said, Oh, no, There's a guard, every three banks, you know? And there were these young men having a party. It was on the right after they had had that, um, killing for some of the embassies in the in New France or somewhere on they had killed the young ones at the embassy.

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Well, I said, Where are the guards? Why are these young men having a party? And there's just a little man sitting at the foot of the street with a checklist and my son said, Don't worry about it. There's somebody watching Anyway, They were right next door, um, to some beautiful homes on the water.

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And they had a picture of Noriega that was their target with a dart board. They were throwing darts at, You know, the pineapple faces what they called him, and we did go through Quarry Heights. We went to dinner at the officers club, and then we walked down the hill from Quarry Heights, down through the orchid garden and down to into the Balboa Flats.

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Andi, tell you the truth. When we landed, the plane landed. I cried, I This is really where I was born. It is my home. It's where I was born, where my parents met. My mother is buried there. Um, Panama is a unique place. The zone was, as I say, never never land one of my class reunions, probably 20 years ago.

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But he usually comes. One of my classmates, One of the upper class Panamanians is David Rob lists, and he is a very wealthy, influential attorney. And I said to him, Well, David, how are things down in the zone? And David looks at me and he said Panama.

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So every year I tease him about being president, but he doesn't want to be president when I see him at reunions. But we were very, very privileged. I was privileged to have grown up in an environment that was so safe, so good and so secure and so patriotic.

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My father was in the American Legion. I still have his legion hat from a joke. Number one. You know, his little crooked hat and a za Fourth is a kid in the third grade. The year we were there in 1940. Um, it's getting time, you know, um, they had a pen pal.

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And so I wrote as a result of my can l zone background to a girl named Laban Polly and I corresponded her many years, and one of the things that I'm proud of is being a Girl Scout. I was selected as representative, along with a girl named Yvonne Harvey from the Cristal poolside as a junior in high school to attend the Western Hemisphere encampment of Girl Scouts and Lady Baden Poll was a guest.

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This was in Michigan and there were girls from all over the Western Hemisphere. Ondas I say I was representing along with her from the canal zone. We had them from, oh, Puerto Rico. We had every South American country and we had three. Camp had been set up by three Girl scouts from all over the United States.

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So that was a great event. And the following year, because I was the representative, I did work with the camp for the Girl Scouts. They had a big send off T forest that General's wife had a silver tea in honor of are going to get enough money to send us and a Zai say we were very privileged to do that.

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And we were also we had a Girl Scout cars. We did bumper Knicks bumper Knicks, Hans and Gretel on And I was the which the cookie, which on my little sister, also was the cookie, which, and we know nibbling, crippling mousey. Who nipples at my house.

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See? So if you want to hear the whole thing, I won't sing it. Okay, Rachel. Laughing What else? Well, this is, Ah, wonderful narrative. I mean, you've talked about, you know, life in the zone and some of the changes that happened over time and leaving and coming back.

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And this is a It's a very full story. Are are there in any other aspects that you have brought My husband? My first husband died of colorectal cancer in 1987. I remarried three years later in one of my classmates, Davis Stevenson. Rose Cont runs Condor Tours, which were also interviewing.

00:26:15.050 - 00:26:42.630

And Davis was one of my classmates. And he was one of the military guys in ROTC and his wife June. Anyway, I did bring my husband, and we did the 14 day tour with Davis we went to places I had been to El Va in 19 44 45 went up to the Triple A place and got full of ticks with my mom.

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But when we went with Davis's tour, he had a group of about 40 people. Uh, there was also a man named Horan Hor I any. He is the big brother of one of my classmates, husband Larry Horan, and he and his wife were on the bus with us.

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Um, there was a guy there who was about £300 at the back of the bus whose daddy was the architect for the zone. Every stop because we toured all the towns. He had a photo op because his daddy lived in every town and he would rumble up from the back of that bus.

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It is blue blazes. He would get up and wander up to the front because he had to sit on the big seat in the back and he would go get the picture taken where he used to live. My house. We did go by my house. As a matter of fact, when my son was when I went down in 90 we did go to my mother's grave cords.

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L we Davis also made it possible. Uh, Davis also makes a trip to Raposa. You know what Raposa is If you go to the vendors room, they are the vendors, the jewelers. They take the lost art replicas of the pre Columbian stuff. I have a walk up.

00:28:04.830 - 00:28:25.520

You're talking a couple $100 worth of walk on the earrings, but Davis takes you to riposte Is trip is very good. They take you to one of the restaurants where the men don't have a urinal. They have a trough. My husband loved that. And they also had of Tencent beer and the bus headache.

00:28:27.140 - 00:28:43.160

Ice chest. Every time the bus stop, they'd have to have a pit stop. They'd all get a drink and then we'd have a pit stop 15 minutes later. But Davis does a terrific tour, and the only girl I have is that I did not take the extra days and go to the same blast islands.

00:28:43.530 - 00:29:00.950

But it was a wonderful tour. I would love to take my whole family when I turn 80 which is a year from now. I don't know whether moneywise I could have afforded with six kids and all the grand babies, but maybe, But again, growing up in the zone was a privilege.

00:29:01.140 - 00:29:05.570

And I thank you for being asked. Well, thank you. This is a wonderful story.