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Hi there. Today is July 8th, 2011. This is Sarah Blanck, and I'm here with Mr Jack Morton on the Panama Canal Zone project. Mr. Morton, can we just start with some details about your life where you were born and some details about your parents? Well, I should start with my grand parents who who went through the canal zone during construction, and my grandfather, Morton.

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Uh huh. Was a conductor on the railroad. And at that time, the railroad was heavily involved in removing Earth from the various cuts that were being formed. Thio accommodate the canal. Um, he earned the Roosevelt metal with one bar indicating that he had four years of construction service on the other side of my family.

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My grandfather, Bath Charles Bath. He came to the canal in as a military officer in sanitation, and he was a sanitation, Uh, a person, uh, sanitation inspector. Uhh. During construction. And, uh, you had eight years service with the canal during construction. So and then my father, he went to work for the canal.

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Attn. Age 15. He came down with his his dad down From where? Down from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Okay, and mhm. He started work on the crystal ball pierce at age 15. Anay ginseng called the receiving and forwarding agency R N F A. It was commonly known, and he retired in 19, while he served an apprenticeship as a machinist, and Onda wound up with the railroad and retired in 1959 with 37 years service.

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Oh, and then I was born in the colon Hospital. Aziz was my brother after me and my sister. Five years later, mhm and we stayed in. We stayed in Colon until 1940 and then we moved to the Pacific Side, living in an con of that time.

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And my mother and father divorced in about 1943 and my sister left with my mother. They went to California. My brother and I continue with our education and in Balboa High School. And, uh, he left to play baseball, and I stayed on, got an apprenticeship telephone office repair and was drafted into the Army in 1953 came back in 1957 and I got my degree in accounting at the University of Tulsa and went back to work for the canal and read worked in various positions in accounting.

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And then I wound up with the executive planning staff in a treaty planning group and, uh, retired in 1983 and it was a good life. That's what everyone seems to say about living in that area as well as a kid. Way had to run of everything.

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I mean, it was such a safe place that nobody minded their kids running around anywhere. They pleased, uh, you in a 10 or 12 years old, World War Two was going on and we could go down, toe all Brooke Field at that time and see the planes coming in and taking off, go up to the place called the Diavolo dump and pick up airplane parts and take him home and construct their little play airplanes 10 and 11, 12 years old.

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At that time, that's very cool. So did you go to schools in the Canal Zone? Yes, went Thio, an con elementary school and then Balboa High School, and I spent a short time in the Canal Zone College mhm, which didn't amount to much. So you went to Canal Zone College before you were drafted?

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Yes, just briefly, but it was a semester wasted. E didn't do well, but But I went back to Canal Zone College after after my army period on on the G I bill and then went from there on to University of Tulsa, where I completed my degree.

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How did you choose University of Tulsa? Well, I was in the Army with a fellow named Jerry Buchanan who lived in Tulsa. And he invited me Thio stay with him and his family. If I wanted to go to the university there, and that's what I did.

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That's nice. So how long were you there? Nice. Yeah. Um, So I went there in 1959 50 58 I believe. And graduated in 1960 while while I was there, I married my wife, who's also a canal Zone girl. She was working in New York City at that time and came down to Tulsa to be with me.

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And we got married down there in 19. 60 1960. So you knew each other before, and then you were both in this? Yes, I met her at Canals on college. She graduated from Crystal Ball High School, 1957. I graduated from Balboa high school. 1951 on. So we got married until something.

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My first son was born in 1961. Right after I graduated from college and you were back in the canal zone for that? So what did you do immediately out of college? I went to work with the accounting division in in Balboa, Balboa Heights on, uh, from there I moved on Thio.

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Uh, well, they were looking for people to get involved in computer programming. Canal was initiating a computer system in various areas of the operation, and they were looking for computer programmers. And I raised my hand and learned a little bit about computer programming and went toe work there for a while, and then went with the systems division, which was implementing the computer operations that were being started.

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So these computer operations were these four accounting or these for the locks for accounting purposes? Okay. Yes. Storehouse. The retail store and payroll. Those were the three function primary functions that had nothing to do with the canal operation at all. So how long did you do that?

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Oh, for a couple of years. Um and once the systems were in operation I moved on to auditing, and I was there for who? A couple of years. Probably been on a long time ago. And from there I went on to executive planning staff and got involved in the Treaty Planet.

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That was about 19. 73 74. How did you get conscripted in that? Well, it was, you know, part of the job they put you where they wanted you. Did you on, uh, was very interesting. Yeah, definitely. Tell me more about that, but well, it's hard to explain.

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Um, our our involvement was only in the implementation of the treaty provisions that were being discussed by someone else at higher levels. Way knew that certain things were coming about and we had to plan for those changes on that was our whole approach to that problem.

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Just a plan for the changes that we knew were coming from the treaty. Changes included lost to the military of functions like schools, hospitals, all of those. Those two functions were operated by the canal as well as the canal. And, uh, those functions were being divested to the military down there.

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D o d. Okay. So along with that, there were a lot of personnel changes. A lot of our personnel were being transferred to a military somewhere being reduced in force. Um, and all of those things had to be planned and carried out effectively. And so the plans were drawn up and mhm.

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Uh, there was a I don't know what you'd call it a deadline, but there was a five year approach to what was gonna happen in the future. And then there's a the long range respect of it. The various bureaus in the canal had thio develop a five year plan on how the treaty would be implemented.

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And then beyond that, what they foresaw, as agreed as a long term, uh, effect on their operation somewhere eliminated. So some of these bosses were writing a plan to eliminate their job effectively Did, uh and then they did They have difficulty finding employment in the zone after that?

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Well, it was nearly impossible to find employment in his own because ah, lot of the positions were being transferred. Thio, Panamanians, and and the workforce as a whole was being reduced by thousands. So there just weren't any jobs available. Eso people like me. Uh who didn't wanna live on the economy in Panama City somewhere or buy a house in a former canal zone.

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We left and went to the states. Okay to live. So did you do that after this job was done? Yes. In 1983. Uh, job wasn't completely done, but my part of it, uh, was just kind of distasteful. Side left. My wife wanted to go. She was tired of living down there anyway.

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And my two kids were in the States. Um, it was time for me to go. When was your second child? Born? Second son was born in 1963 and now an con. Okay, this hospital. So they both eventually moved to the States. Did they move for college?

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Yes. They should work for a short time and student positions with the canal, which gave us, you know, four generations of having been employed with the canal or D o d in in the canal zone. And that my oldest son worked or left the canal. Thio left the canal zone.

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Thio start an apprenticeship in Houston, Texas, and my my youngest son was just graduated from junior college with his a a degree and he wanted to pursue his education. And in Austin at the University of Texas s. So we moved to Austin. Austin's fun. You've been Boston.

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I've went for a music festival, so I don't think I saw the rial Austin. But I saw by Southwest. Yeah. Really? Mm. Sixth Street. Yeah, it was. It was several years ago, but it was a really cool place. It's not like the rest of Texas. No.

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Well, it's a college town. Yeah, Big, big. It's music, you know? Yeah, for us. Forest Texas concern. Um, let's see. So your kids went thio Canal Zone schools as well, right? They both went to Balboa High School, where they graduated. My youngest went on Thio Canal Zone Junior college at that time was called and he graduated two years later with his a degree on and wanted to go to the University of Texas in Austin.

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Well, that's where we moved. Do you think that their upbringing in the canal zone was different from yours? No, not at all. In fact, you know, I grew up in the forties and they're growing up now in in the seventies and eighties, and things are a lot different.

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Uh, yeah. You know, technology was different and cars were different. You know, they they wanted their cars and enjoy them. And, uh uh, the facilities had improved a lot over the years, Aziz. You might imagine. And so they think they have a lot more fun than I did because I was walking to get around and driving a car.

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Um uh, sorry. Just blanked. Um, do you think that their their history classes were more American history or world? Definitely. There were, yes, world history. In fact, when I was in junior college, they're, uh They were teaching world history, early world history. And then but the history was mostly dedicated.

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Thio us, You know, history. Nothing. Not too much about Panamanian history. You might have. You can appreciate that. The canal zone was kind of a colony, and and the people there were We're colonists. They wanted They stayed by themselves pretty much, you know, a lot of Panamanians in the workforce.

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And I would say that the Panamanians, United States citizens got along very well at work. Yeah, but there was not a lot of integration between people in the canal zone and people in the Republic of Panama. It was really two different societies. Mhm. Um, so did, uh were you there for the riots during the treaties?

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Did you get to witness any of that? Well, not really. Um, in 1964 the riots were primarily in the border areas of Panama City, and I drove down towards that area, you know, come my car and parked and could see that the tracked vehicles US military tracked vehicles part lined up along the road, and you could hear the bullets flying over, But there was really no danger there.

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We were three or 45 blocks away from in any activity, and those were the only riots that I I can remember being significant. My period of time was it was the treaty something that you talked with your neighbors about a lot. Or was it really a topic?

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Well, it was a hot topic, you know, there's a lot of people who didn't I think it was a good thing to do. Of course. Ah, lot of those people were losing their jobs. Uh, and there was a lot of uncertainty, uncertainty in in their minds about what they were going to do in the future if their job was lost.

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Um, so you can appreciate that. Mhm. Wow. Uh, it wasn't a happy time with the Panamanians, Rightly or wrongly. Were interested in having that area to call their own, you know, mhm. But you had to stay for five years because of your job. Five years after the treaty.

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Well, uh, treaty really didn't go into full effect until 1999. Uh, but there were certain aspects of it that were coming into play before that, you know? And and actually, I left in 1983 December of 83. And that was really before any of the major functions transferred either either to the military or to the Panamanians.

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Um, does your wife work in in the zone to She worked while the kids were young. She took part time jobs with the military. Um, on. And then she went full time with the military later on, just before we retired. She got in about 10 years, I think, working in Criminal Investigation division as a secretary and stuff like that with d o D.

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Okay. Did you did your family have any sort of traditions in the zone or the community? Well, we had a circle of friends, and, uh, we enjoyed partying with them either in the canal zone or in Panama City, Uh, either a hotel or go to dinner in one of the various restaurants on downtown.

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And, uh, we formed a gourmet club where we went to dinner each other's houses, you know, two couples would get together and plan and carry out a meal at various people's houses. That was a very good time. Joe would was part of that. Yeah, Joe and Bev.

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So when you moved to the States after living in the in Panama and the canal zone for so long, what was immediately striking to you about your new life? Well, it was different. Ah, lot more convenient. You know, all the stores in the world where around you, you call it the land of the big p X.

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Uh, it was different in having to own and maintain a house in the yard that around around the house and getting used thio paying taxes on property and home mhm calling, having to call people to thio, do repairs on your house when they were necessary and then having to pay them to Dio in the canal zone.

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The government took care of all the housing and all you did was call a plumber and he came and worked on it. And you left taught you nothing, so that was a big difference. But did you still feel like you've made the right decision toe? It was the only decision to be made for me.

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I wasn't gonna live on the economy in Panama. It was a matter of deciding where the states to live. But it was an easy decision because your son's Yeah, what about for them when they moved here? Because they weren't moving here because of a treaty. They were just moving here for school.

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Eso did they like it more here? Well, um, I'm sure my youngest son did because he was living with us. My oldest boy who came for for work, you know, had his struggles. He he was in the You're really an infant, Ato, 18. You know, when you find yourself landing in some U S city at the age of 18, never having lived anywhere in the States, it's a shock.

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And so he and his buddies were kind of at sea. Oh, tryingto figure out how things were gonna going toe land in their favor and whether they could make a go of it. But he struggled on and he's doing all right. Do you? Have you been back to Panama on only one time?

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Only. When did you go back? Well, it's actually been twice that. We took a cruise down there and to shoot docked in Colon, which is on the Atlantic side. And since I had lived in in that area for a short time in my life, we just took a taxi and cruised around in a city of colon.

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And no, that was pretty much all we did on that trip. But a couple of years ago, I went with my youngest son and his wife. Now, when we spent five days on the Pacific, citing looked at some of our old haunts, my old house and and we got to write a tug in the canal and mhm.

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I saw some friends that I hadn't seen in a long time. We had a good time on what was your impression of the canal zone. Now well, um, except for the housing areas. I would say that Panama has done a wonderful job of of creating new business, you know, expanding their existing businesses to take advantage of the canal area.

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It was a huge container operation down there. Couldn't get the container ports. So I think they've done a wonderful job using the canal zone to their advantage. And did it look the way it did when he left? Or didn't know? There were a lot of changes, particularly in the housing areas, some improvements and some old houses still standing empty and kind of run down looking, but largely pitch for the better.

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Yeah, I was not disappointed on episode Excited the Atlantic side. Uh, I didn't I didn't see it all, but in the city of Colin was very run down. Unemployment is very high. Uh huh. On the that's on the Atlantic side. And how long have you been coming to these unions for?

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Well, I think our first re union, uh, was in 1984. When? Right after we came to the states. Um, on duh. We've probably been to six or eight since then. Way Don't come every year. Um, I haven't been here for three years. Okay, so three years ago is your last one.

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What do you usually talk about with people when you're here? Old times Sure star they're doing today and what the kids were doing and where they're living. And, yeah, when I asked pains, you know? Yeah. Getting that each, um last the last couple people I've talked Thio.

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They have had completely different and very strong views about the treaty. Beyond you know, I asked them when you come to these regions, do people ever brawl or disagree? And they said, For the most part, they don't really talk about it. That's right. That's right. It's history, you know?

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Yeah, that's what they say. Yeah, people are happy with. Generally, I would say people are much happier now than they were in the canal zone. Uh, because of, you know, the facilities, the entertainment, their little laptops and silly stuff that people do coming to the reunion and partying.

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Yeah. Have they done anything spectacular at these reunions? Like, uh, not you, but the people who put it on, Do they have they had anything memorable in the last couple ones that you've gone Thio. No, I won't tell. You know, they put on a nice dance.

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You know, Andi, I would say they work hard to put on a very nice re union. And for the most part, it is very nice. Uh, we've been to various hotels, you know, since since I started coming to the reunion. Um, and the hotels, uh, that we have been coming to have gotten bigger and bigger because of the size of the group.

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Yeah, it's a huge group, but I'm getting too old for this party stuff, e. It's not sure you from Panama. That wasn't another illusion that people keep making to the group coming here in the bar, running out of liquor over there. Well, I don't know that that's happened recently, but it has happened maybe more in the eighties.

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Early? Yes. Yeah. When the hotels were smaller, they had a A re union. Where that actually happened. I think that was over in the holiday in airport. I don't know if that even exists anymore. Absolutely. Ran out of boots on. Bartender says I've never seen so much drinking and crying and hugging.

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No fights. That's good. It's good. Especially when there is a contentious issues floating around and know it. Well, they were probably disagreements, you know, among the people, whether the treaty was a good thing or not. But by and large there, I would say that the people have left the canal zone to live in the states air.

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Pretty happy they did it. So, what do you think is important for people to take from your experience in your life? Living in the canal zone? That's a hard one. Yeah. Um, you know, I think it Z it shouldn't be any different from from what people are doing or having to do today.

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You take care of your kids, uh, keep them out of trouble. You know, um, people have different ideas about religion and or where it is in your life. Uh, but it's I don't think it's kind of life in the Canal zone was ah, lot different from from the philosophy of life in the States.

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You know, you try to do the right thing, you work hard, you know, keep your boss happy and keep the kids on the straight and narrow. Yeah, I've heard that if kids step out of line a little too much. Well, it was easy to do down there.

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Yeah, it was a definite party atmosphere. Certain age groups, and there are lots of places to party. Yeah, and they didn't have the laws. Uh, the age restrictions on drinking and things like that that are common in the States. You know, we're talking about back in the eighties and seventies.

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Yeah. Yeah. Um, is there anything else that you wanted to share today? No. E was going. I'm sorry about that. I was going to rely on questions more than speaking extemporaneously. Uh huh. Yeah. Um, we enjoyed we enjoyed the Panama Line steamships. We could come to the to the United States every two years on on so called free vacation.

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The the canal paid for your transportation back to your home of record. Theoretically, you didn't have to go to your home of record, but they would give you a equal amount of of dollars. I would say so. Even if you spend all your time in New Orleans, you would get enough money.

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Yeah, A. So long as you voucher it to go to your home and Cedar Rapids, Iowa, If you wished so that people could come to the states on a Panama line, ships and travel around in the States and have a virtually travel free vacation, huh? They used that opportunity to buy new clothes and and other things that they wouldn't weren't available regularly in Panama.

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Mhm. But you know that those were good memories for May be able to travel in the States with with my dad and then have my own kids, wife and kids to travel with, you know, drive around in the States, we saw a lot of the country on.

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It was a nice opportunity would come come up for a month, you know, which is unheard of, you know, appeared. You get a week or two vacation, you know, we get a month. Did you take advantage of that that every two years? Not every two years?

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Because, you know, although the transportation was free still cost you a lot of money. Did they? Did they give you off from work as well? Did you have paid leave from work? Paid leave? Oh, yes. Wow. Oh, sure. That's awesome. Yeah, it was very good beyond that.

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There was a time where we got our our our pay was equated with with civil service payroll. Our pay was civil service related, plus 25% for a while. They reduced it later until 2 15% which was called our tropical differential, which was very nice. Pay was excellent.

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Work was good, you know. Yeah. But it wasn't too challenging for you when you got here. And you had to start Thio manage all of these things on your own. Like your home and your No, it wasn't. It wasn't difficulty. It was different. Yeah. E learn a new area, you know, learn to get around in a new city.

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Mhm. But it was It wasn't hard. My wife was glad to be in the States. Yeah. Yeah. It was nice to have all your family back together again. Thio. Yeah. Well, is there anything we missed today? Anything we didn't cover? Nothing significant. In my opinion, Uh, uh, if you have any other questions, why, I'd be happy toe to go on, but, uh, I think we're all set.

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Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. Once again, this was Sarah Block, and I'm here with Mr Jack Morton, and it's July 8th, 2011