NaN:NaN:NaN - 00:00:14.890

Well, first of all, sir, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule. Thio, talk with me and I wonder if we could start If you could tell me something about your family background in the Panama Canal. Well, as you know, the Panama Canal.

00:00:14.900 - 00:00:37.770

Uh, three United States involvement in the Panama Canal succeeded of the French involvement on it was engaged in as a result of the, uh, the US assisting in small group of people in Panama, Toe Mountain Revolution against Colombia and in the U. S. Got certain treaty concessions to build this canal.

00:00:38.140 - 00:01:20.420

Once that all happened, um, the process of building the canal involved very significant recruitment off people throughout the United States and throughout the Caribbean to participate in the construction project. And my grandfather was one of those people recruited from Pennsylvania. The method for one of the most important parts of the construction of the canal, which was the caliber cut area, was very similar to open pit mining where railroad tracks were laid in the steam shovels and cutting.

00:01:20.430 - 00:01:46.810

Uh, machinery was mounted on a train, and so, uh, they recruited lots of people who had railroad experience and my grandfather had worked for the railroad in Pennsylvania. And so he was among those railroad people brought down their toe work on the canal. Uh, Thio engage in the excavation, which, as I say, it was very railroad focused at one time.

00:01:46.810 - 00:02:22.860

You probably heard this from other people. The Panama Canal, uh, was the largest panel Railroad was the largest railroad in the world. It had 400 locomotives E recall. So that's how my family got there. They went down there in the year 1908 The Revolution against Colombia took place in 1903 So it was five years later, and my mother, uh, my grandmother went down there with my grandfather, and then my mother was born there.

00:02:23.240 - 00:02:44.500

She went to elementary school in high school there. Her name was Janice Scott. And, uh, I went to the same high school She did, uh, but when I went to that building, it was in elementary school. And, uh so I went to elementary school there. And then there was a new high school when I went to high school.

00:02:44.510 - 00:03:07.250

And then my daughter was also born in Panama after I had received a degree from Oxford. I went back and worked there for four years. And my my my son was born in England. But my daughter was born in Panama as well. So I guess we had four generations there, Uh, lived there, did stories with your grandfather, and his experiences did.

00:03:07.250 - 00:03:24.620

And he Did he ever tell stories about his time, or did any of those ever passed down? You know, the truth is, he didn't much to my regret. So my sister, who I guess you're also going to interview may have more information on that because she talked to my grandmother quite extensively about that, but I never did.

00:03:24.620 - 00:03:47.410

I was a little boy when my grandfather, when I knew my grandfather and he died when I was in high school. And, uh, I never did really talk much about his experiences, except that, you know, once the construction was finished, all these people who have been recruited had to find different kinds of work within the canal.

00:03:47.410 - 00:04:14.750

And my grandfather worked first in the mortar transportation division, a za mechanic supervisor, And then he, uh, worked later, uh, in the marine traffic area, I believe, But The truth is, I'm very vague about it. Um uh, but, hey was there for a full career. I mean, he retired in his sixties, and, uh, he spent his whole working life there.

00:04:15.340 - 00:04:35.630

My mother did as well. My mother spent her whole working life there to, um, life. Did she work outside the home? And she she did. She, uh she worked for the Panama Canal. She was a civil servant, And, uh, she was an accounting technician for most of her working career of.

00:04:35.720 - 00:04:58.950

And that was a job she held when she retired as well. Mr. Scott mentioned high school. What years were you in high school from 1952 to 56. Okay. Which I'm here to attend the 55th. Wow, that's great. I'm very reluctant to admit that, but unless it's true, Balboa High School.

00:04:58.960 - 00:05:25.170

Okay. What was the high school like during those years? It was a faras I'm able to determine, like any high school in the United States. It had, you know, the same football teams, basketball teams, cheerleaders, uh, the instructors were all recruited from the United States, were experienced high school teachers from America, and, uh, the experience.

00:05:25.640 - 00:05:54.380

You know, the method of the curriculum. There was no as far as I could see, there was zero Latin American impact on the high school. In fact, the Spanish teachers were not even local teachers. Oh, well, there were one or two, but most of the Spanish teachers were imported from the US, which is very but there was no there was no, There was no sense that you were going to school overseas.

00:05:54.390 - 00:06:14.770

You might as well have been. In fact, I remember a story once written in The Washington Post, where they said that living there was like living in Hyattsville, Maryland, on. And it's true. I mean, that was the very much the atmosphere of of being just like you were in a suburb of Ah, of the city in the United States.

00:06:14.770 - 00:06:50.430

And, um E I had a little different personal background that most of my classmates, because my mother had married my father, who was a British subject on New Zealander Andi. He had got to Panama, a za part of a professional prize fighting troupe. He was a boxer, and he was also a journalist at the same time, and he had lived in Paris for many years, but he was originally from New Zealand.

00:06:50.440 - 00:07:29.540

And when he came to Panama, he met my mother and married her, and they worked briefly for the United Fruit Company. And then he became the editor of the local English language newspaper called the Panama American on. He was its editor for many years. Um, he was ultimately deported from Panama by the president, uh, named are unlawful areas, and he was deported because hey, resisted on spoke critically in the newspaper of the leaning of the president toward the Axis powers.

00:07:29.540 - 00:08:00.490

The president are new. Full areas. Was very much admire of Adolf Hitler on duh cozied up to the Germans quite a bit. And as a result, he was deported. Okay. From Panama. Wow. Um, so my mother, um, you know, during part of that time Prior. Ah, subsequent to that.

00:08:00.490 - 00:08:29.080

I'm sorry. My father, uh, met a fellow New Zealander whose name was Lowell Eurex. And Lowell Eurex was the founder of an airline called Taka. Ta. See. A taco stands for transport is a area Centro americano, and, uh, it was started in Honduras and, uh, but later moved its headquarters to San Jose, Costa Rica.

00:08:29.090 - 00:08:48.980

So my father and mother and my father was s o. My father became one of the co founders of Taka along with Lowell Derricks, and he became, uh, their sort of public affairs vice president, and he used to attend the IATA conferences on behalf of Taka.

00:08:48.990 - 00:09:08.430

Uh, the reason that is relevant to me is that I lived when I was quite young in San Jose, Costa Rica, and I went toe Spanish kindergarten. So actually spoke Spanish before I spoke English so he could say that Spanish is my native language. I you know, I'm still pretty fluent.

00:09:08.440 - 00:09:29.260

I'm although I wouldn't How would you consider my I'm fluent in terms of conversational Spanish. I'm not fluent in terms of reading Spanish or business Spanish. Um, do you remember you old enough to remember World War Two? Yeah. Ideo Uh, what are your memories of? It is a well.

00:09:29.270 - 00:09:51.050

First there was a very large military presence in the canal zone and we lived right adjacent to a military base called core YSL. Uh, and, um, way became quite friendly with the Catholic priest there whose name was Father hippest H I e p T A s.

00:09:51.050 - 00:10:35.270

And he was from Green Bay, Wisconsin, and my cousin, who was born and brought up in Panama as well, was a Roman Catholic. I was not, but I was a great admirer of my cousin, so I became a acolyte in the Catholic Church. But father hips was very, uh um, I said to my mother that he was going to be very diligent and not allowing me to become too enamored of the Catholic Church because he thought I should grow up in the church, that I was my family's tradition, which was the Episcopal Church, which most people can't tell the difference.

00:10:35.280 - 00:11:05.050

E So anyway, but going back to the high school. So, um, you know, there was very much of a non clave environment. Interesting enough. Most of the contact we had with people from Panama were sons and daughters of rich Panamanians who paid tuition to go to the Canal Zone schools because their parents believed.

00:11:05.060 - 00:11:28.000

And I think correctly that it was very much their advantage to learn fluent English and to learn the American tradition of education when they went back in the Panamanian society. Because that would give them an edge over the other people. And it did. And many of my classmates are now quite prominent Panamanian political politicians and businessmen.

00:11:28.010 - 00:12:03.450

People like Bobby Eiseman and Johnny Maduro. Albert Calvo. People like that were their teachers, and you mentioned the real high quality of the high school where their teachers that stuck out in your mind or that you in particular have memories. You know, um, the truth is, no, um, I have nice relationships with most of my teachers, but I think the one was the only one I can recall that I could even say her name and talk about her class.

00:12:03.450 - 00:12:27.680

Was Mrs Whitman who taught English on she, uh, you know, she was, uh, very good on teaching us the standard stuff you learn in high school English. You know, uh, uh, Evangeline and all the other things you required to memorize, you know, in the various speeches of Julius Shakespeare, you know, Julius Caesar.

00:12:27.690 - 00:13:00.650

So and I think she was quite helpful to me in in developing my writing skills. I had other experiences which also contributed to that. But I've always been pretty good writer. Pretty good speaker. I think she was one of the building blocks to that process. But other than that, I don't remember my teachers is being, you know, dramatically impactful like I had.

00:13:00.660 - 00:13:16.260

If you ask the same question about my college experience, I could e could tell you about that high school. I was just I got a very good grades in high school on, uh, I was very active in sports. I got 13 varsity letters, so I was very busy.

00:13:16.270 - 00:13:44.270

But I you know, the academic experience must have been okay, because when I e eventually went to Oxford University and got a degree there, so I wouldn't have been able to achieve that. I'm sure if I hadn't learned something. Alright. Now, Mr Sky, you were talking earlier about connections between Panamanians outside of the Panama Canal Zone.

00:13:44.280 - 00:14:12.930

People living in in the zone and a few through school where there other connections between people. Or were they two separate worlds? I think they were, by and large, two separate worlds. I just don't think the way, um, the American, um, style off, uh, operating in foreign countries really hasn't changed much.

00:14:12.940 - 00:14:38.440

I mean, in Iraq. And then, uh, you see where our troops are stationed in Germany or our troops are stationed in Japan. And you know, we have 456 different major military installations in Japan. You have quite a number in Germany, you know, they're enclosed community, you know, they they have their own schools, their own, their own social network, their own, uh, entertainment centers, right?

00:14:38.450 - 00:15:14.450

Sure. Their own shops, their own, their own stores. And there really is not a need for the people to go out into the community into the into the you know, the local community. Like enclaves. They are very much the way it was in China back in the turn of the century, right in the 18 nineties to the 1910 years of the period of extra territoriality where Germany and France and us had these enclaves in Shanghai and other places.

00:15:14.460 - 00:15:46.670

It's the same way now, and and it's it's quite extraordinary. And people, of course, don't speak Japanese. I don't speak German, they don't learn it on. They just don't really, you know, they take when they have time off. They might take a little tourist trip somewhere, but they might as well be coming from the United States, you know, so that there their presence there does not lend itself to becoming knowledgeable and, you know, really integrated into the society.

00:15:46.930 - 00:16:15.010

Um, and it was, by and large that way in Panama, but strangely enough, even though that was the core, truth is also true that the Americans there, um, developed quite an affection from Panama. And so, um, event like this one, you see, they play the Panamanian music, and they they feel very connected to Panama.

00:16:15.020 - 00:16:34.830

And, uh, and it's ah, it's a love hate thing, because on one hand, they feel out of Panamanians took our canal, you know? And on the other hand, they have great affection for Thea the culture, the Panamanian culture that you see the symbols all around, you know, the bolas.

00:16:34.830 - 00:17:04.310

And yeah, that stuff. And the Americans are the great problem Alligators for that, much more than the Panamanians, Panamanians. They could care less about Mullah. Three Americans are very attached to the things that are, uh, sort of especially the music. And I think that was very much, uh, encouraged by, uh, this, uh, scarred a family that had the band, you know, Lucio and his cheating and all his sons.

00:17:04.320 - 00:17:26.900

Um, but if I'm actually a little different than my classmates because I went, I left Panama. I went back after college and worked for years, and then I went back. Then I left and went to the States and work for the U. S. Government. And I ended up being an assistant secretary in the Department of Transportation.

00:17:26.910 - 00:17:45.140

And I ended up testifying on the treaty, uh, to return the canal to Panama, and that made me very unpopular with a lot of my my friends. But I didn't care because I lived there. They lived here, you know, I thought it was the right thing to do under any circumstance.

00:17:45.150 - 00:18:18.200

One of them was telling me earlier that there was even the high school students went out on strike. It's just crazy. Just crazy was insane. But, um, I testified it was during the Carter administration. Uh, I testified before the Senate that it was not only a smart thing for the us, but it was the moral thing to Dio, and it makes me very happy, very happy to see how well the Panamanians have done as the custodians of the canal because they run the canal and the canal zone.

00:18:18.210 - 00:18:44.670

That's a really business operation. United States didn't do that. The United States granted as a personal strategic convenience, you know, and not as a commercial thing. And as a result, um, the, uh yeah, the Republic of Panama really didn't benefit from a financial point of view from the fact that the canal was there today.

00:18:44.680 - 00:19:04.960

Panama's moving. It's one of the it's in spite of the world economic troubles Panama striving. And they're widening this canal, which we should have done. But we didn't, and they're using modern engineering methods to do it. Very creative stuff. Um, they're improving the ports all the time.

00:19:04.970 - 00:19:23.310

Uh, they're attracting different kinds of commerce. They've really been able to develop the real estate on the tourist stuff all because they have this economic base which allows them to do that, which they never had when we ran the place because, you know, we gave them a piddling 100 million bucks a year or something.

00:19:23.310 - 00:19:47.250

It was it was pathetic. And, uh, eso they never they never really could thrive. And they were very much not oppressed by us, but just, uh they weren't able. Thio exploit this this resource that was sitting on their on their territory. Now it's arguable that we really created in a moment we took it from Colombia.

00:19:47.260 - 00:20:08.680

Kind of means didn't do anything that she that we did on. And if we wanted to, we could have just taken it over a 52nd state. It would have been a very stupid thing to do, would have sent a very bad global signal on. And so But it's a long winded way of saying that I'm really happy that Panama has done what it's done.

00:20:08.680 - 00:20:30.040

That that the decision of Carter and Tory Hose Thio to do this treaty and to return it was a very sensible thing. Now you're to be candid with you. You're one of the first people that I've talked to you in this range of interviews who have mentioned Jimmy Carter and, uh, non majora enjoys this non pejorative sense.

00:20:30.050 - 00:21:01.050

Um uh, Well, what Mark you off, Aziz being different back then? Why? Because I wasn't living in Panama. I was living in the States, and but I never felt that way anyway. E never felt that way. I always felt that you know, the that. This idea that the Panamanians couldn't run the canal was just complete fantasy that people had made up too toe to make themselves feel good about themselves, you know, and sure the people who were working in the in the canal at that time couldn't have done that They had to be developed.

00:21:01.050 - 00:21:27.960

And so the plan that was put together by Carter and the Canal administration. And in fact, my boss, a guy named Ed Doolan was a very farsighted plan because it developed these people into pilots and tugboat operators and power plant operators and machinists and gave them or a apprenticeships and so on, so that by the time it was time to do the handover, it was seamless.

00:21:27.940 - 00:21:45.920

I mean, it was just like you get up the next day and do the same stuff, because by then the Panama has have been totally integrated, and it was appropriate that they should be. It was crazy that the idea that they shouldn't be it was just, you know, people who live in a constrained environment.

00:21:45.930 - 00:22:09.700

Get this bunker mentality, you know about life, you know, they sort of see, you know, the axis of the world is going through Balboa. Well, it doesn't. You know, e got news for that. Uh, and it's, you know, it's not that they're bad people. It's just that their perspectives of their life focus are very were very narrow.

00:22:09.710 - 00:22:25.740

You know, a lot of them have great difficulty when they laid Panama and come to the States and try to integrate into the society here where, you know, everybody has to kind of, you know, make make it for themselves. Whereas in Panama, you were just taking care of.

00:22:25.740 - 00:22:51.410

You know, It's just like to be in the military. Go here, go there, do that. We'll take care of you. Here's the hospital. Here's the clinic. Here's the school. You know, it's a very you might call people frequently referred with a very socialistic kind of environment, you know, But I never wanted it that for May, and, uh, I was very clear to me that there was a world outside the canal zone.

00:22:51.930 - 00:23:05.900

Was that Do you think that was part of your Oxford training that that gave you e? I don't think it was the whole thing, but it was certainly when I went to Oxford was right at the beginning of the Vietnam War, and so it was a very politically active place and so on.

00:23:05.910 - 00:23:28.770

But But I really think there's more of my mother and my father being internationalists themselves. My mother was a even though my mother only had a high school degree. She was a very, very thoughtful person. And my father, who did not have a university degree either, was a very experience international correspondent were for NBC for 21 years.

00:23:28.740 - 00:23:45.110

Uh, he was in Cuba during the test, a revolution. He was in Egypt during the six day wars. And so he really saw the world in a very Broadway and and I think that affected, you know, my my thinking and I was exposed. I was exposed.

00:23:45.110 - 00:24:07.780

Teoh, one of the fellows who succeeded my father as the editor of the Panama American, A guy named Ree Smith, after whom my son is named Reese. Um, he had a very significant effect on, you know, my way of looking at what the world is, what the world can be insured being, you know.

00:24:07.780 - 00:24:40.320

And so what I've tried to do in my life has been a product of that, really, to some degree shaped by my being born and brought up in Panama. But I'm very active and stuff in Africa and on guard and the other less developed countries. And that work is was someone informed by my childhood seeing people living in real poverty in Panama.

00:24:40.480 - 00:25:15.070

But the truth is poverty, and Panama's not very poor. I mean, I remember going to I was involved with the church group and I was going to help them start operations in a couple of countries e called Compassion International. On I said, Look, I'll give you this money, but you've got to start operations in Panama and Nicaragua on They went into the study and he said, Well, they're not enough for people in Panama, Funny in Nicaragua yet, but doesn't have enough for people to justify us being there.

00:25:15.080 - 00:25:40.270

Just quite a revelation. Yeah, the country's air. Definitely different, that's for sure. Yes. Did you e wonder if we could if you could go back, Mr Scott, and thinking about the testimony, um, that you were giving Did you have what type of interactions did you have with other individuals During that time, I e.

00:25:40.280 - 00:26:05.290

I mean, not not many in Panama, but I was My job was twofold. One, it was too established. The position of the Department of Transportation, which ran the suit canal up, you know, Northern us and to Statewide was a good thing. And I did a little slide show, which was which.

00:26:05.290 - 00:26:31.530

I got slides from Panama and explained to the senator's You know just how the canal operated and why, why the economics were what they were. But at that time, it was very interesting, because the Department of the Army, as it frequently is, even today in many issues, I had a very schizophrenic attitude.

00:26:31.530 - 00:26:54.560

On the one hand, it thought the things should be turned over. On the other hand, they weren't so sure because they wanted their bases there. And the Corps of Engineers, which had traditionally run the governor for the entire time the United States operated the canal, was always appointed from someone within the corps of Engineers, usually a general officer and eso the department of the Army.

00:26:54.940 - 00:27:17.610

I didn't want the Department of Transportation messing in its little sandbox, and so it was a little tricky, But I think if anyone never cared. And they went back and looked at my testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. It was was very well received by the committee, and they felt that e mean, they were very effusive in there.

00:27:17.610 - 00:27:35.060

Thanks for being informed about what this situation really WAAS and point I was trying to make is that it was not rocket science for the that means to be able to take this thing over and run it responsibly, but that there needed to be this period of transition to to prepare them.

00:27:35.070 - 00:27:54.160

Because is it turned out I was especially well placed toe have that opinion because I had worked four years. The four years I spent with the Panama Canal was in the personnel department. So I really understood a lot about the jobs and what jobs various people had and what the level of training waas, what the needs were for retraining.

00:27:54.160 - 00:28:10.170

I mean, I was, you know, truly had a fair amount of depth of expertise in that area. So what years were you working in the personnel department? Well, it was right after I left Oxford. I left Oxford in 62 so it would have been 62 to 66.

00:28:11.760 - 00:28:35.610

Um, was now when you came? Wait, let me get to say that's not correct. E graduate advice. Well, sure, go ahead. 6. 60. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 60 62 to 66. That's correct. Okay. Yeah, because you graduated 56 from high school, right? Okay, so when you came back to the U.

00:28:35.610 - 00:28:58.640

S. Oh, I'm sorry. To to Panama, uh, for the personnel depart. Um, that was the sixties were a time of change in Panama, right? Right. They were. And they had those, um, famous riots that, you know, we're about the flag, you know, putting up the Panamanian flag at the high school.

00:28:58.650 - 00:29:17.190

And they had, you know, the U S didn't want it. And there was big riots over that, and, uh, John F. Kennedy was assassinated. During that time, I was a student, and I'm not unemployed there. Yeah, it was a turbulent time in the Vietnam War was just getting cooking.

00:29:17.190 - 00:29:40.610

And so they had the army Jungle Warfare Training center down there, Fort Gulick, where guys were passing through on the way to Vietnam. And it was a very, uh, very turbulent time But But, um, I, interestingly, had a very positive four years, although I was glad to get out of there because it was, you know, a very claustrophobic place.

00:29:40.620 - 00:30:06.360

But my boss was probably the most effective executive in the whole Panama Canal. The head of personnel at the guy and this guy had mentioned before Edward Doolan and he taught me more about being an executive. Then I learned anywhere else in my life, and it had nothing to do with Panama Canal just setting me to people who connected in a very certain concerned it.

00:30:06.360 - 00:30:28.120

But it's way to my advantage. What were some of his qualities? Well, he was he really It was a very effective executive, and he was very good at Oh, uh, making certain that when you went to do a task that you went out in a very informed and thorough away.

00:30:28.130 - 00:30:45.170

I mean, for example, he gave me the job, uh, running an internship for a summer internship program for Panamanians. So we put together this program 40 or 50 Panamanian kids and place them all over the canal and so on. And so I said, uh, OK, we're gonna do this orientation.

00:30:45.170 - 00:31:09.200

We're gonna take them Thio. Uh, Gamboa, and they're gonna see the operation. But he says Well, okay, where are they gonna meet? Well, I'm not sure. Uh, who's going to get the train tickets? Well, assume somebody will, uh, you know, how are they going to get back to their place of work at the end of the, you know, you just had this way.

00:31:09.210 - 00:31:27.330

I mean, you know, being a young man and experience, you know, I just thought there were people out there who did these things that but you got through to me with I was on it made quite, you know, even though was trivial stuff. It made a huge impact on my thinking.

00:31:27.340 - 00:31:46.020

And so from then on, when I had assignments not only with him, but in other jobs in the future, you know, making sure that everything that needed to be considered was considered. And, uh, And when now, when people work for me, you know, in succeeding years I did the same thing to them.

00:31:46.020 - 00:32:06.840

And then it was all because of the experience in Panama. But it had nothing to do with the Panama Canal, per se. It was just had to do with two people who one benefiting very much from the others. Wisdom. Wow, that's interesting, Mr Scott. Now, some some of the people that we've been interviewing have been talking about the widening project.

00:32:06.840 - 00:32:37.510

Now, um, and what are your thoughts on that? And what impact do you think it's gonna have on? Well, I think it's a great thing. I think that there's several things that are very good about it. First is that it will allow these monster ships to go through and make a, uh, you know, we'll have a very positive effect in world commerce and, uh, and make the transportation of certain cargoes much more efficient.

00:32:37.520 - 00:32:59.860

Uh, secondly, particularly things like petroleum and ors and things like that. Uh, secondly, um, you know, there recycling the water in this model, you know, they're pumping. They're creating these catch basins and pumping the water back up, using it again, which the current canal does not do.

00:32:59.870 - 00:33:21.560

And so the current canal is totally dependent on the rain. You know, it's got a rain a lot. Unfortunately, most of the time it does, but there are times it didn't and when it didn't they used to have what they called, uh, you know, uh, dual blockages or short blockages where they would use the interim gates so they don't use it.

00:33:21.570 - 00:33:36.770

They don't. Flush is much water through because every time a ship goes through in the current thing, I think it uses up is much water, as the City of Buffalo uses in a week one ship. So it's a lot of water going out to see just never being recovered.

00:33:36.780 - 00:33:55.490

So the Newton, the new design recovers the water. Now, there were some concerns about environmentalist about doing that because the lakes and the interior were, you know, fresh water in the salt water. But it's an artificial lake anyway, so but the this thing doesn't do that because it has his catch basins.

00:33:55.500 - 00:34:14.090

So the water's pumped up and used to lock the ships that way, so I don't think it recovers all the water, but it recovers a very high percentage and I think will make, uh, it much more efficient to to really operate the system s. So I think that's a good thing.

00:34:14.100 - 00:34:49.610

And, uh, you know, I think that, uh, she born, um, bulk cargoes is still the most efficient way to move Roman. You know, natural resource is around, you know, whether it's liquefied natural gas or or petroleum or or iron or things like that. Bulk cargoes, you know, different times way you know, grains and stuff like that, especially for our exporters who was trying toe Senator things to China.

00:34:49.620 - 00:35:08.600

So when you come out of New Orleans and down and over toe to Asian, which it is gonna be a big deal in the coming years because the whole issue of how we're going to feed the world's population is becoming a very hot subject of concern by many people.

00:35:08.600 - 00:35:37.270

So the Panama Canal is gonna have a role in moving that those food products, you know, and both to Africa from the from our West Coast. You know, the the Central Valley grows a huge amount of food and to sit getting that to Africa in Europe and at the same time getting the products in the Midwest go down the Mississippi on the barges and trains from New Orleans to the Asia.

00:35:37.740 - 00:36:01.100

So I think it's a very good problem project, and I think that the Panamanians have been very clever about how they financed it, and and they did a plebiscite, uh, to get, you know, to get referendum toe, get the population behind it, and population did get behind it.

00:36:01.110 - 00:36:28.940

So always, it's ah, good example of how I mean, if you think in the Middle East, where oil is, take Iraq, you know, or some of the other countries which have, you know, had Nigeria's another good example where they have this tremendous wealth of oil. But figuring out how to exploited in a way that the population supports has been a huge challenge.

00:36:28.950 - 00:36:48.300

Whereas here you got, you know, a natural resource canal. But we're the population. Basically, they've embraced the population in the project on gotten the citizens behind it, which I think very, very smart. Yeah, they seems that I mean, they understand the benefits, and those benefits have then spread a bit more widely.

00:36:48.300 - 00:37:02.950

Perhaps for sure, for sure. Mr Sky, I know you have a really busy international schedule, obviously, but do you ever have the opportunity to to go to Panama? Has been a long time since I've been there. I was the last time I was there was almost 10 years ago.

00:37:02.960 - 00:37:17.530

What were your impressions of? Well, at that time, my impressions were that it was really beginning to thrive. But I think the last 10 years it's been exponential on. I haven't been there to see that. I've just read about it, but I haven't physically observed it.

00:37:17.540 - 00:37:36.510

But the other impact, which is a is, you know, the famous Thomas. You can't go home again. Um, you know, I know a lot of my friends have this burning desire. They almost every year burning desire to go back and kind of check everything out. I don't have that.

00:37:36.510 - 00:37:53.020

I mean, I feel like, you know, if I go to Panama again before I die, that'll be fine. But I'm I'm not. You know, I don't have this burning desire to do it. I don't feel the need Thio to go back and see things because they're pretty much the way I remember him.

00:37:53.020 - 00:38:12.790

And, you know, I don't have any family living there anymore, So e, um e I don't go back a lot because I say 10 years. Last time I was there, Um but now with the new canal, maybe I will go and have a check it out.

00:38:12.800 - 00:38:40.660

She was seeing how they've done. Uh, I'm very I'm very proud of the Panamanians. I think that they have shown great wisdom and great thoughtfulness about how they've been rebuilding their country on bond. You look around Latin America, how many other countries you see where they're prospering and the only one I can think of is Brazil?

00:38:41.020 - 00:39:04.450

You know, Mexico is a disaster Because of the drug cartels. Central America has shown very, very little progress. Colombia is coming out of that terrible period of the drug stuff, too. And maybe getting back on track. Maybe there's another example. Argentina had a huge economic problems, you know, and they still haven't really recovered from the animal.

00:39:05.020 - 00:39:25.030

It's not okay, You know, you're really good. Cubans have had progress in many areas, but they stupidly have not found a way to suck up sufficiently to the U. S. So that they get to get the benefits of that. And so they haven't really. Eventually they will, I think, maybe another 10 years.

00:39:25.030 - 00:39:51.740

You'll see the Cubans being on a Panama type track because what they have done it smart, educated, the whole population on so They've got a pretty good resource there that could be drawn on. Yes, we and they can never get our shit together. Well, Mr Scott, I know you're very busy this this weekend, but were there any other thoughts or things you wanted to talk about that we haven't touched upon?

00:39:51.750 - 00:40:16.600

No, I don't think so. I think, uh, you know, uh, the the construction of the Panama Canal and the theme the the glory days of that period during the construction are really you know, where the U. S really showed. You know, it was kind of like putting a man on the moon.

00:40:16.600 - 00:40:31.150

You know, it's kind of like a real can do thing, you know, the United States saying to the world French who built the Suez Canal and who thought of themselves, You know, the echo poli technique is the great engineers of the world, you know, full time.

00:40:31.510 - 00:40:47.330

You know, I couldn't do it, and we went down there and did it. And we also demonstrated, I think when you're gonna do something like that, it's a very much an integrated system. You have to take care of the malaria. You have to take care of the living accommodations for the workforce.

00:40:47.330 - 00:41:06.130

You have toe show career paths for the people you have to have, uh, security. You know, it was it was a good example of of sort of a multi faceted, you know, massive. Almost like fighting a war where you have toe, take all these things into consideration.

00:41:06.130 - 00:41:25.080

The Panama Canal was one of the first times the U. S really did that. You know? Later, of course, we put a man on the moon. But But I think that in that respect, it was a great example for America and for the world. And, you know, I was very proud toe to be part of it.

00:41:25.080 - 00:41:49.580

All those you've observed, my attitudes aren't synchronous with probably the bulk of my patriots. Well, you know, it's interesting. I think over time it seems I'm hearing Mawr. We've done interviews now for about two years with the museum, and I think more folks over time are echoing the sentiment and analysis that you have.

00:41:49.590 - 00:42:08.810

You know, there because as they go to Panama and they see the administration of the canal, they're very impressed. I have not heard anyone come back and say Well, they just blown it. You know, it seems that people are very pleased eso in that sense, But it took a while for some people.

00:42:08.810 - 00:42:16.320

Maybe it seems that you got there more quickly because of your background. And I was in a different spot. Yeah.