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Good afternoon. This is Sarah Blanck. And it's July 7th, 2011. And I'm here with Charles Hynes. Hinz. Thank you. And Mr Hens, would you care to start just by telling me some details about where you were born and your early life growing up? Okay, Uh, my dad is from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and, uh, in things were tough in 19 in the early twenties after he got out of the army.

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And so he re enlisted and was sent to Panama with the coast artillery. And what is his name? Your father's name? Charles. Okay. Sorry. Continue. Yes. And he met, uh, my future mother here in Panama, that some kind of social function dance. And they were married.

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And I was born in the Republic of Panama. My mother is from the Netherlands, West Indies. She's Dutch citizen, but not Holland Dutch until his Dutch. But you can tell that by looking at her because she's big boned and blue eyed and and blonde. And so that's it.

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As far as my parents ago. Now, I'm born in the Republic of Panama, not in the canal zone, but in the Republic of Panama. And a reason for that is there was a group of American doctors who started this hotel in Panama called Hospital Panama. And it was very popular with the Americans living in the canal zone.

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And a great number of them attended these, uh, doctors clinics. Dr Herrick, Dr James, Dr Reader, Dr Runyon, all Americans and excellent physicians and surgeons to. And we were living in the canal zone. And that's why I went to school and grew up. You know what was going to school like there?

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Going to school was fun in elementary school, in kindergarten, in junior high, in high schools, the curriculum was very, very good. And we got a good education. Would you compare it? Thio was a lot like a U S education. Or was it very different? Oh, no.

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I imagine it was ah, lot like the US because it was based on us standards, and it run sort of like a public school. Or was it still? It was only for yeah, uh, members of the families who are working in the canal zone, but it was open to Panamanians also provided a pay tuition.

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So was it a small group of people that you were with through all those years or did it constantly change? And now it's pretty pretty, pretty static. You know, we all went Thio elementary school together and in high school and off course that there was some scattering in those times.

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But for the most part, yeah, we'll stay together, group. And then when you came to the end of high school, what did you decide to Dio? I went into an apprenticeship canal, had on apprentice program four years, and I became a sheet metal worker, okay? And I worked in a craft for a few years, and then I had an opportunity to transfer to heavy construction and heavy equipment operations, which I did.

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And I got a lot of on the job training in that. And that's why I stayed for my whole career. Okay, so this was a private company that you were working with the Panama Canal Company. Okay, so how does that differ from working for a private company?

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Well, it was all U S government and, uh, way were well taken care of. Uh, some people say that were tampered. Maybe Maybe we were, but it's a It was a unique situation of being in the canal zone. The Panama Canal in and just this one strip of land was a canal zone, and the rest was Republican Panama.

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Uh, so you were still under those circumstances where the government owned your home and all of the different facilities around you? Yes, that was all U. S. Government, except for concessions like barber shops, beauty shops, shoe repair shops and things like this were let out on a concession basis.

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So can you tell me about some of the types of projects you were involved with through your work way? When I was working in a sheet metal worker, we did a lot stainless steel work for the hospitals, for the restaurants. And there's it was known as a jobbing shop.

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You know, we didn't do any particular type of work. We've had a wide variety of things todo and we were exposed to other crafts like plumbing and welding. And things like that wakes up very well rounded education in our particular craft. We did roofing work. I get a lot of working roofing work, and, uh, that's a Marine Brenda in heavy equipment side of it.

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We There's a lot of heavy construction and maintenance and repairs. Uh, even railroad, uh, systems, but not the main trans isthmian line. Just a railroad network that went into some of these other divisions that we're part of the Panama Canal table of organization. So you say you were pretty pampered as workers, but where they're still ever any issues among people you worked with where they wanted their working conditions to change for one reason or another?

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No. They were very happy. Very a. Was it ever dangerous work? Hazardous way, you know, crafts are yes. Not to a great extent that a good safety program, but accidents did happen occasionally. No, I wouldn't say dangerous. Were did. Did your coworkers change it all? As people started to come in and out of the canal zone later on, Uh, well, they had knew they had people retire, and they had hired people from the States that would come in.

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Yes, it was changes, but they all fit in. Well, help it in. Well, way had a lot of Panamanians in the Panama Canal Company, you know, for the most part they were helpers and laborers and things like this, but ast time went on and Panama became more involved in the operation of the canal.

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All of these positions were opened up the Panamanians and and they have, they fill these slots. So the way it stands now is they don't hire any Americans. It's just Panamanian hired, you know, they've done well. I A lot of people expected the canal collapse, and Panama took it over.

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But that didn't happen. Not at all. They were doing a good job. So what were some of the powerful political events that happened while you were working? Well, the most powerful was the riots of 1964. When was sparked, it all off was even going back to 1959.

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Uh, the Panamanian said, Hey, give us a break where? Let's be partners in this. You know, United States controlled everything in the canal zone at that time, and they said, Let us participate in the running of the canal, you know, let's make it a Let us have some of the profits and make it a 50 50.

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Deals are profit scale, but the United States when wouldn't mind that, and that was the beginning of it. Begin the beginning of the unhappiness on the part of the Panamanians. They felt that they it was It was your right to have a say so in the operation in the canal because it was, you know, it was their territory.

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And but the United States was very inflexible on this. And okay, uh, that's what triggered a 64 riots. And the Panamanians wanted to fly the flag or were the canal zone. And that was really the MMA turning point. And and they had a They had a solid argument.

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As far as I'm concerned, because the United States bases overseas in Turkey and all these for foreign countries in Germany, they the flag of the host country, always flew next to the American flag on the basis, and this would have been so simple to to carry out, Let's say, Hey, sure, you can fly the flag star flag, but they wouldn't.

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And that is really what sparked it all. Where did you get to witness these riots? Are child right there? So, do you have any vivid memories, or was it mostly just chaotic? Well, they call in the U. S. Troops and we were never in any physical danger because we stayed away from them.

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But, you know, people were killed and in some of our g i s were killed and all unnecessary. In my opinion, all they would have had to do is agree to fly the flag. Thank you. So as someone who was living there at the time and kind of seeing where everybody was coming from, did you have a hard time discussing it with people in the States that didn't really understand what the what the issue waas, or did you not really get into it that much with really get into it much?

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Okay. Yeah. Did your family have any sort of strong feelings about it? Yeah, well, we were all very unhappy about it. My wife is a Panamanian, and that's the first question that people ask me, you know, how does your wife feel about, you know? And but it was a sad situation.

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Nobody could feel happy about it. No, no money. And they were just that. A sad event. Don't bring back good memories. So your kids grew up in Panama as well. Yeah. Okay. So did they. Would you say they had a similar up bringing to you the same type of school experience and all that.

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And what do they think about their lives growing up there? Because they live here now, right? Right. Yeah. They love it. Yeah, kids were very happy. Good. And they were born in the hospital there. Yes, they were born on the Atlantic side because we were living on the Atlantic, cited time.

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And what are their names? And what years were they born? Carl Hay was born in 61 on Heidi was born in 64. So you had you had young kids when all of the political chaos was going on was probably very frustrating you. And then do you Do you remember any other moments politically that came after that?

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Whether aftermath or much later. Well, there are a lot of changes after that. Uh, the treaty went through us as a result of that treaty. Eventually went through in 77 mhm, they incorporated Panamanian policemen into the canal zone police and eventually they turned over, Uh, the courts in hospital eventually went to Panama.

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The military took over the hospital person and everything eventually went to Panama. Uh, over a couple decades or 79. 77 year. Was there any sort of backlash from the Americans when that happened, or was it mostly accepted? A lot of Americans were very unhappy about treat about giving up the canal.

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And President Reagan himself said, Hey, the canal is ours. We bought it. We paid for it. It's ours. But that's not true. It wasn't ours. Were there, like on a lease basis. And a lot of Americans still still harbored bitterness over that. We're giving up the canal.

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Lot of some of them won't come back to Panama on because of that. Uh huh. But it had to come. There had to be a treaty. Uh, maybe not the treaty we got, but there should have been a treaty either. Needed a tree, So Okay, Sorry.

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I'm blanking. I just had a follow up question for you about the treaty. I'm sorry. Um, let's see. I hate when I do this. So did this affect your job in any way the the treaty? No, no, uh, when the canal was turned over to Panama, Uh, I was carried on in my position by the Panama government, and that's how I came to work in the extra 11 years at the canal past my mandatory retirement, which would have been my mandatory retirement date under the U.

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S. System. But I retired from the U. S. Government and then was immediately picked up by the Panamanian government. That same position, same rate of pay. It was a good deal for me. Nice that works. Wasn't the original policy that once you retire in the Panama Canal Zone, you don't You can't really live there.

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No, you have to give up your quarters. Because of quarters were all U. S government quarters. So did most people have a similar arrangement that you did. Where once they retire in the US, then they were able to get employment in Panama. Some of them stayed with the canal.

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Some of a lot of them left. A lot of them. Some of them took early retirement when they saw was coming. So how many years did you work for the company again? 55. And what had two years military on top of that before him. Um, what was your job in the military?

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I just I was drafted during the Korean War. Just a private you know. Did you have to s? So you had to go to Korea? No. When the war in Korea ended. When we're in basic training. Okay, that's lucky. Yeah. Um, So where was your training for?

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For Korea and Fort Dix, New Jersey. So that was just a brief period of time where you were uprooted from that area. That's right. Way received additional training down in Fort Lee, Virginia. And as soon as I got I got out of the service, I went back to work for the canal.

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And how long did your parents live in Panama for? My dad retired in 1955. Hey, Worked for the canal 30 years. 31 years? Yeah. And did he move when he retired? Yes. To in Panama? No, He went to the States to the States. Okay, So what finally inspired you to retire?

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I e I had just had enough. You know, I felt I had worked long enough, and I and what Really I would have stayed a little longer, but my wife had a new knee replacement and I had to be with her to take care of her.

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Eh? So I retired. What did your wife dio in Panama? She was very active in philanthropic work. Oh, she was very involved in an old folks home down downtown in Panama and she very involved in garden clubs and flower arranging and things like that. She's an accredited judge, uh, from the National Guard headquarters in state in the States.

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And she's still very active in that. Both the old folks home, man, they ran the same same home. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. How many years has she been helping out there? Well, she started when I came back to the Pacific side in 1984. That's when she started, uh, with that particular home.

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But when we are in on the Atlantic side, she was involved in philanthropic work also. Okay, So tell me about your life now in Panama. Oh, my life is easy. I'm retired and way have a little beach house up the coast of ways. And we spent about every other weekend up there on I stay busy.

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You know I'm working or anything. Just staying busy around the house. Do you have family visit? Yeah, kids. Our son comes down at Christmas and our daughter comes down when she can. She lives in San Antonio, and she works for the U. S. Marshal there. And our son lives right here in Orlando.

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And he works for a publishing company. So what? What do you think is important for people to know about your experiences in the Panama now zone Nothing on my personal experiences. Oh, there's nothing for them to know. Not much. I've, like I told Joe would I had a vory unspectacular career here a long time, but you know nothing.

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Nothing earth shattering, you know, important. You know, it's very important. Especially if you did it for so long, right? Yeah. They gave me a good send off. I must say that Panamanian management treated me first class thing. They treated me royally. And, uh, of course, I got along with him.

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I speak fluent Spanish, and and I fit right in with them. Yeah. I mean, you could pretty much identify as Panamanian, having lived there for so Well, I am. I carry a dual citizenship. Yeah, I have Panamanian citizenship. Also on, uh, that was because, uh, the dictator we had general to Oreos.

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He said, Hey, anybody born in the canal zone is a panic automatically a Panamanian because the canal zone is really belongs to Panama, even though the United States runs it. So when the kids came home on from for their summer vacations, those kids that were attending college in the States Customs gave him a bad time.

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Immigration can say, Where's your Panamanian? Uh, where your Panamanian documents. You can't come in, E. That's when it was decided to in the United States approved that they had no choice, that anybody born in Panama was considered a Panamanian citizen. And Panama does have a history of dictators.

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Was that Did that make you sort of unease? E just historically? Not at all. I wish we had him back. Yeah. Did you still catch wind of a lot of American propaganda against them while you were in the zone against America? Against the dictators against? I'm blanking on the one gentleman's name.

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It's not the the one you mentioned. Noriega. Yeah. Noriega was involved in a lot of illegal things. He he had a good deal going. He just he shot himself in the foot. You know, you deserve to be taken down. Mhm. But no. Uh, life under. Uh, not bad at all, either.

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Was life under Noriega? You know, you just minded your own business, and nobody bothered you. I knew officers in Panama National Guard. I got a whole well with them. And, uh, so no. So I answer your question. No, there's no problem with under Tory. Oh, So our Noriega, maybe the politicians had problems, but not toe run of the mill person.

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So most of the people that you knew living in the Panama Canal Zone Did they work with you, or did they have other jobs? Well, I knew a lot of employees in Panama Canal Company go through my work. You know, people in other divisions and a lot of people.

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Okay. Do you have any? Any stories or memories that you'd like to share from your life there that we should have on record? E can't think of any e. Can't think of anything exceptional that would merit. You know, you're far too humble for a normal history interview.

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Uh huh. No. So you got you got to vote in Panama. Did you get to vote in any of the elections there? Well, I never voted because I was a little leery of that because there's a Oh, a law regulation in a U. S. Citizens cannot vote in presidential elections of a foreign country.

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Well, I just stayed away from the voting, but you would have been able Thio not as a US citizen, both of Panamanian citizens. There would be no problem. E wasn't aware of that u S law about voting in another country's election unless it's changed. Yeah. Wow.

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Um, Alright, uh, they're gonna kill me if this interview is really short. So if there's anything else that you'd like to share, by all means Well, when I leave here, I'll probably say, I could have told her that. Exactly. Can't think you could take your time.

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You know, there's these things. They're full of pauses. That's what's great about it. Mm. All right. Yes, sir. Very interesting. We had a lot of interesting projects, you know, the locks overhauls, and and you didn't tell me more about him. Well, is it? That's when they they drain the chambers of the locks on one side, there's two lanes and to do maintenance work on the valves and the culprits and things like that.

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And that's people come down in the States to see that, You know, it's really spectacular. To see the empty chambers with. And Panama Canal is quite a unique, uh, undertaking digging of the canal and design. Especially because it was designed way back there to turn of the century.

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And she'll operating. Yeah, that's phenomenal. Yeah, Mhm. I consider myself very fortunate to have working at the Panama Canal and spend my life here very happy that I was able to do that. Yeah, it sounds like a wonderful life there. Yeah, it was a good life.

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Beaches are nice. And there good outdoor life. You know, we had to climb it. And no natural disasters like hurricanes or tornadoes or typhoons or anything like that. Ah, lot of people, unfortunately, don't appreciate what they have here. That's what I see. It mhm. Mhm. Sure you're not gonna think of anything else trying?

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I'm trying really hungry, playing back type of life, you know? No. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, no, that's fine. Um e I'd like to know more about just everyday life, especially, You know, there's there's things that are going to be way different there from here, but you know.

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Is it because life in Panama is completely different? Or is it just a matter of the time is going on? Like, you know, a grocery store trip in Panama is obviously a completely different experience than the United States. Well, back then, it waas guess. But now Panama has grocery stores that compared with grocery stores in the States, they've come a long way.

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But getting back to being pampered way had mhm back in the old days, you didn't pay rent electricity, and it was all free because you were working for the government that your government housing and but they changed that. And then they started paying for electricity. We had a limit.

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We could, uh, get free electricity from and above that limit you had to pay for. So everybody tried toe her best to keep below the maximum allowed allowed energy, and we would get every two years we get a free trip to the States. Uh, they implemented that because they wanted people that came down to the States to be able to go back to the States and, uh, and visit our families and not get into a rut down here.

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That is very nice. That's very considerate of them way that trip, and, uh, hospital care was very good. We had a good medical system, and but there are a lot of little perks like that. So in the U. S. Controlled your rent and all of those things.

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Was it similar when you had to get food? Did you have Did you use actual currency to purchase your food? Yes. Yes. Okay, but the grocery store was run by the United States. Not the groceries with the grocer where you got your food from? What about it was that owned by the United States?

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There was? Yeah, they were all Americans way back now. But then, like I said, gradually, the Panamanians became started to decay. Come on. Toward into a company. So the only Americans you'll see down here now is, uh, they still have some pilots. The pilots will take the ships through the canal.

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They still have a few Americans on the pilot force. And that may be a few engineers, but the American presence just a fraction of what you used to used to be totally American Now Mhm. No eso. What are the feelings now? when you talk to people, especially Panamanians, that were around when all of the riots were going on.

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Well, that's it. They consider that water over the dam. You know, ZPass unpleasant past. They don't bring it up. Mhm. We don't hear any better discussions about that. What about schools and education? Is it something that they teach about And is there really strong emphasis on E?

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I don't know what they teach in regard to that may no doubt favorite Panama's view off what led to the riots and everything and that z only natural. Yeah, I I hold those views too, right? Mhm. Alright, e wrap this up. E wrap this up. Sure.

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Alright. Okay. Once again, this was Sarah Blanck. And it's July 7th, 2011. And I'm here with Charles Hinton's Thank