00:00:00.340 - 00:00:21.660

there. Uh, my name is Matthew White. It is July 1st. Andi, I'm talking to boy Bevington for the Panama Canal Re union. Andi, he just asked me what I want him to talk about. Um, what we're here to do is to talk. What? We're mostly interested in course, the conversation will go where it goes.

00:00:22.040 - 00:00:39.270

But what we're mostly interested, I think, is sort of the social aspects. The day to day living of what it was like to be in the canal zone. We can move from wherever that takes us given your history will be fine, but we're not interested. Necessary.

00:00:39.270 - 00:00:56.550

In the grand events of you know, the ebb and flow of international politics, our military or things like that s eso were interested your early in your personal experiences and what it was like to live in the canal zone. Starting, of course, with just you know who you are.

00:00:56.550 - 00:01:23.470

How do you find yourself in the canal? Yeah. I was born 1932. My grandfather, Harry Franklin Bevington, in May of 1912 left his three sons, daughter and wife in Cleveland. The youngest son was my dad, and he went down and let there May 5th that was immediately hired.

00:01:24.250 - 00:01:50.850

It was very good with his hands and his brains and hired him is a carpenter to start within Pedro Miguel. We called it Peter McGill. And then he was transferred to the Atlantic Side, where he became a foreman in the construction of defense. The canal had the north and the south, and in each entrance to the canal they built fortifications for defense purposes.

00:01:51.540 - 00:02:12.270

And Grandpa, Harry and I got pictures of his the's huge cannons that he had to install. And then after that was done, he stayed there and my dad went to local schools, and my dad and my grandfather really ever talked to me about their time. There, of course, is a teenager.

00:02:12.300 - 00:02:36.240

Was I interested? Not till I got married and moved away. But they grab, resigned and went up to L. A. For a while, where my father graduate high school And then in 1929 when the crash came, he went back to the song was rehired. Now your dad or grandfather, my dad, my grandfather went back and was rehired.

00:02:36.740 - 00:02:52.770

His two sons, my Uncle Donald and Uncle Harold, stayed Donald married. They stay, didn't go to L. A. Just my sister. My aunt and my father went up there. They both graduate high school up there Anyway, they went back and my dad started working for the Hotel Tivoli.

00:02:54.340 - 00:03:15.190

The canal didn't have any commercial things you didn't advertise. There were no sales because he doesn't compete against itself. My dad got a job as a hotel assistant at the relatively, which was on our Pacific side Hotel. Washington was on the other side. It just is on the side every year.

00:03:15.200 - 00:03:37.020

The lame duck congressman with government paying their way came down state negatively for a few days, went back just a side with when they were there. So now when you say lame duck where they were not reelected, there were people who had just lost her in elections lost, are retiring, retiring yet.

00:03:37.030 - 00:04:00.790

But, you know, senators and congressmen were ever coming down there because of legislation. We had no representation and all that kind of stuff. Uh, just as on the side, politics was rarely or discovered discussed. You didn't know anybody being any kind of a party unless they brought it up.

00:04:00.790 - 00:04:22.790

We all talked about Carmela's old stuff, What was going on at your job and who's getting appointed. And you weren't getting up in the in the hierarchy of things. Did you have any elections? Did you have any of any elections we elected? Nobody. Now you had to keep on file your stateside residents.

00:04:22.800 - 00:04:40.560

Always. You kept putting out this information, slept change. And who was still in the States that you? Because when you went on vacation, your way was paid to that stateside location on this ship. Train small. Excellent. So that's why they had to keep that going for you.

00:04:41.340 - 00:04:57.950

Now I've heard of Pardon me for interrupting part myself, You know, for the rest of conversation. Uh, sort of blanket Pardon, if you will. Um, now, is that where you had to return? I understand that you had to return every two years. You know, the what they call it the home return or something.

00:04:59.780 - 00:05:18.400

Is that where you had to return to that? I do not know. Because we didn't do it every two years. Okay? Every employee worked, and for every month or so, you are in so many hours. Ah, vacation time. And since It was so far away to the States.

00:05:21.440 - 00:05:40.470

Like my dad, he would work for a few years and earned three months vacation so we could go to the States and really visit family and friends. And we did that in 1948. After the war, we put our 1941 Plymouth on the Panama kind of railroad ship.

00:05:40.480 - 00:05:55.730

Took it. The state's got it and we tweet around, put on we came back. People would do that. And since the canal could not did not sell cars and all those kinds of things people go to states by Chevy put on the ship was asking where you buy your car?

00:05:55.740 - 00:06:18.490

Yeah, you could buy used ones in Panama. My folks never had a new car. They always thought they used to us and so on. So my mother graduated from Balboa High School, 1930. I graduated there in 1950 somehow or another, my mom caught the eye of my dad.

00:06:18.500 - 00:06:43.020

He was four years out of high school, and they David and my mom was staying with two of her sisters, not married. The fourth sister had gone there with her husband, uh, who is a medical doctor and he's gotten interesting background. He had been to Alaska in Arizona, was quite an adventure.

00:06:43.030 - 00:07:13.870

So he said he met his land Bessie in New Bern, North Carolina, the home of the Bell family. My mother's side. Okay. And they went down there and I guess that Bessie told her three sisters It's nice down here. Come on down. And they did. And my mother, not having graduated high school, went to my new Balibo High School, which was an elementary school by the time I got to go to school and they dated and my aunt Nita, who was in charge of Vert, didn't want to care for my dad.

00:07:14.540 - 00:07:34.030

So he went home to Cleveland, the home she went to New Bern, North Carolina. They have made arrangements to take the same ship back to the zone. So they met New York City, were married, spent a night in the hotel dicks here. So I got on the ship when they got back.

00:07:34.030 - 00:07:55.950

They told Nita we've done it after that was okay, so they never had a church wedding or anything like that. So and then 32 I came along. They were very in 30. Uh, now you said you graduated from Balboa High School in 1950. Now, what was what was it like to go to high school?

00:07:56.540 - 00:08:14.870

Okay, I went from kindergarten all the way up to grade 12. Except for 42. We went to North Carolina because of the war for a few months. But anyway, if you met your kindergarten class would go all the way through high school. Ideo friends. Part of how large was your class?

00:08:16.340 - 00:08:38.350

We graduated high school, Probably about 125 people. Bob Ojai wasn't to see. It's the only There's a high school in the Pacific and one on the landing Onda. We knew each other all that time through every great we were all, ah, group that knew each other and dated each other and had parties to each other and played sports with each other.

00:08:38.350 - 00:08:59.470

Went to dances with each other and so on. And occasionally a kid would come in from the States and we would accept him or her into our our group. Now, did that include the military dependence as well? Did they go to the high school? The military, uh, was there for the defense of the canal.

00:08:59.940 - 00:09:22.270

And they had their basis were within the zone. Panama would not prevent them in the outside until World War Two came in. They would. But at the war was over, they had to come back in and they came to our schools. The military had their PX and commissary, which they go to, but they didn't make schools and they came to our schools.

00:09:22.940 - 00:09:45.170

So we got to know the the military brats and the canal zone. Brats got together. So that was it. And as I say, I'm having my 60th reunion tomorrow night. No. And I'm gonna present what I'm doing to you now, but we're going to interact with our group is about 40 of us here.

00:09:45.840 - 00:10:08.670

Unions are very important to us. Asses, this is. And it provided a place where we could get together were high school because we always came here. And you want to know about how we live with one another. Is that what you wanted, Thio? Well, my, my you know, I'm still interested in sort of your high school or school experience.

00:10:08.680 - 00:10:27.960

For example, you know, I heard in the previous group we just listened. Thio. They talked a little bit about, for example, sports teams. Oh, yes, on rivalries and stuff. So I you know, I found that for real. Did you play any sports and always on? And it sounded like, for example, football, he mentioned.

00:10:27.970 - 00:10:51.770

Who else did you play? Did you just play each other? Was anybody who else plays football in Central America through elementary school? But the canal schools and recreation were excellent and providing activities we were always busy after school that we intramurals in the high school are varsity sports, etcetera.

00:10:51.780 - 00:11:12.320

And when school was now, we had a recreation program that what was outstanding with archery and fencing and all kinds of things and baseball, all of our bodies, we get together and they were divided by age. There was so little leak, no adult supervision, no adults coming and yelling at us.

00:11:12.600 - 00:11:27.670

The coach would give us a bag with balls and bats. We go over there and practicing like one of us is captain and take the train to play Gambo or Peter McGill. And we played the other towns and basketball was the same. And then when we got to junior high.

00:11:27.680 - 00:11:49.600

We came together as one. All the schools we knew were the identity of the elementary's. But we all became one and the junior high in the high schools. And to this day, we still remember Bubble highest. This deep place. Uhh. Our teachers. We boast about them.

00:11:49.860 - 00:12:25.510

They were all hired. Yeah, mostly from the northeast, many of them Colombia Masters degrees, Colombia. You mean the school of the University of Columbia University? Which I understand back in those days was pretty high on teacher education and some in the Midwest, Wisconsin. But very few if any of our teachers came from the from the West Coast because it was easier to go up and recruit whatever it waas from there on, and we got a uneducated in all of our books were United States.

00:12:25.520 - 00:12:53.000

We studied United States history. We did not study Panama History Way, had it all our English and uh huh. Ninth grade was Ivanhoe and 10th grade. It was Silas Marner, you know? Well, junior year, uh, Shakespeare's Macbeth and senior year. She was getting us ready for college.

00:12:53.010 - 00:13:14.540

We were divided into groups by the way college bound kids and non college bound kids. But it didn't make any difference to us who was going where? Oh, one of the biggest parts of our education was dance in the elementary school. We went to a class called Cotillion where they taught us to dance.

00:13:15.540 - 00:13:34.350

Mm. Fuck. Structural sinks And And what? Your I'm sorry. What was that? I'm sorry. What? What was elementary school? That right, right. Might have been the beginning of junior high somewhere in that area. We did it at the Y M C a in their auditorium. And we had.

00:13:35.140 - 00:13:59.950

And then in the high school, what do we have? About four formal dances? War tux. Would you think in the tropics E. I had mine tailor made in Panama City. Went all the way through. Uh, we had a Christmas dance. Easier dance all these things. And then if we didn't have a big formal one, we had informal ones after a game.

00:13:59.960 - 00:14:27.370

And if that wasn't enough, we would get in the gym and play records. And so it's very we had secular tables of Hell are big dances at the hotel Tivoli. Manners and social niceties were big. We set a circular table, a couple went out to dance when they came back, all the guy stood up when the girl was seated.

00:14:28.490 - 00:14:52.460

Our junior senior prom. Use this. You exist. Way just learned all these things from these parents who had gone through the Depression etcetera. Which, by the way, did not hit the canal zone this much as it did the States. In fact, many people moved down. You hardly ever felt the effects of the Depression down there.

00:14:52.840 - 00:15:12.830

So and as I say, our city sports were big time. Whom did we play? Yeah, Crystal Ball High School On the Atlantic side. They were a little bit smaller than us on the junior college, which was held in the same building as Balboa High School. That was our Scholastic league.

00:15:12.840 - 00:15:38.160

Just three teams, three teams we played in football. We played home and away basketball, home and away and baseball. We played a few more games and we had a track meet. Uhh! Since we were living in the tropics, when you got out of school in three, it was quite warm, sure and humid.

00:15:38.640 - 00:15:57.480

But it didn't matter. You hardly even knew it grew up with it. And we had intramurals And then we had all stars and they played the other schools. Then when I was a junior, we brought in the brother in the varsity system. No more All stars.

00:15:57.490 - 00:16:20.150

We started going uniforms, and in my senior year fall of 1949 we had our first tackle football game since we had lights are stadium and the other side headlights cooler evenings. Didn't matter that we practiced, Uh, but it was the equipment at all. And my high school.

00:16:20.640 - 00:16:39.700

We were the first interscholastic champion. We went for all. I was a quarterback. It was a lot of fun, a lot of fun. Guys from that school went away to scholarships that big schools and so on. My number one sport was baseball just loved baseball. To this day, it's.

00:16:40.740 - 00:17:07.850

And when they got us uniforms for baseball, Balboa High was red and white from head to toe oars. Uniforms were read wild, really red, red, red, red, blue and gold was crystal ball. So their uniforms were all blue and the J. C was green and white uniforms all green, not interrupted by like stripes or no.

00:17:08.450 - 00:17:27.980

When we play these funky, quite frankly, oh Lord, Yeah. And then when you got out of school Oh, there's a group called the Working Boys. Three kids who got out of high school stay there, went through apprenticeships or whatever, and they wanted to continue playing. So they became working boys and the high school.

00:17:27.990 - 00:17:46.640

We would play like a like an off season. We play them a few extra games, and that was kind of neat. That was really neat. Now tell me a little bit about this time period about your family. How big was your family? Where you live, you know?

00:17:46.650 - 00:18:09.780

Okay. Uh, my grandfather, three sons, a daughter. They all came down, Uh, the youngest. My father. I've told you about him. My auntie tha She spent some time there, and then she went to L. A and stayed and married a knuckle Michael Tom up there, and they never went back.

00:18:10.640 - 00:18:28.360

Donald married a girl from Connecticut, and he lived on the Atlantic side, and he worked for the commissary division. He was an electrician's over there on the Atlantic side. They processed are milk and ice cream and shipped it to our side. And he worked with them until he retired.

00:18:29.540 - 00:18:49.870

And They had one girl, my cousin Jane. She married a stateside man and they lived in New Jersey on after my aunt, my uncle passed. They moved into her, their house and Rock stream, New York, which was built during the Revolutionary War. Beautiful house we stayed in at once.

00:18:51.040 - 00:19:13.460

Uh, my Uncle Donald, if you want to about him. He he had his problems. He married a woman in L. A. And brought her down the zone for a while. And they divorced? Uh huh. It's very sad, man. He just I don't know what his problems were, but he took his own life.

00:19:13.950 - 00:19:33.820

I was walking home one day past his bachelor quarters, and I saw please car out there and my Uncle Donald lives there. Got home mother, police car up front. I got up the stairs and my dad was crying on. They told me Then my grandfather came down from Pasadena and spend some time with us.

00:19:33.820 - 00:19:54.290

And Donald left $10 grandpa divided amongst the three living kids. Thank you, but I think for himself. So that was Uncle Donald. And my dad, as I say, retired down there. My mother went to work there. She went to work for the the laundry. One laundry service, the whole isthmus.

00:19:54.300 - 00:20:11.410

One bakery service, the whole isthmus one no. 11 dairy. All the carriers were on the dairy. Cows were on the Atlantic side. They? Yes, the trains were going back and forth all the time. So on, uh, their ships, the canal had three ships up to New York.

00:20:11.420 - 00:20:37.170

Back up and back. Us where? We've got all of our dry goods. So So let me interrupt here for a second laundry. So everyone sent their laundry. There's no like in house machines or holding your hand doing just everyone. Uh, a maid. You always had a made A soon as you got up enough salary you have ever made.

00:20:37.640 - 00:20:56.600

Ah, Panamanian lady. They were paid, like, $40 a month. They could come in the morning and leave in the evening. They could do your laundry. Every apartment, every building had its own washtubs. We had closed lines. Every house had its own clothes lines. But my mom said she worked at the larger.

00:20:56.600 - 00:21:20.380

She would take shirts and things like that. Give him off. Take him home. Uh, dry cleaning and white shirts and pants were sent to the laundry was a huge building. Places not to start to do a better way. And my dad one time got to work for the housing division, which took care of the all of our our buildings.

00:21:20.390 - 00:21:35.760

They said in the canal zone, it was a gardener. I got along with scissors and cut the grass and immaculate nothing out of place. And I used to tell people, What do you do? Well, my dad cuts your lawn, and my mom does your laundry. Hm.

00:21:36.780 - 00:22:10.460

But be that as it may and, uh, where we go from there. Well, you said your your uncle lived in bachelor's quarters, and then you lived where and who chose where you got to live. Uhh. Early on, in the construction days, the government in the States decided that it had to do a number one job.

00:22:10.840 - 00:22:35.950

It couldn't be like the French. We're gonna go down. They're gonna charge. We're gonna get this thing done. It's gonna take 10 years, and it's gonna be within budget, etcetera. And nobody goofs off. They hired all these guys in the States, sent him down there. They were forming types because they brought in from the islands carry in the manual labor Guys Thio do all that digging that guy.

00:22:36.640 - 00:22:57.770

So the men who went down there like my father, my grandfather they were tradesmen mostly and then the canal five miles on each side of the waterway, the boundaries. And at that time, most of the guys were bachelors. What's the bachelor do after he gets off of work?

00:22:58.540 - 00:23:25.160

He drinks. He does whatever. And he's going while they made their own police force, which was almost like an army. And then they decided we can't have this. So they started providing the commissary services, recreation, entertainment, schools, everything for the canal employees. You don't have to pay anything for these things and they start coughing up.

00:23:25.170 - 00:23:50.580

And if you didn't cut it back to the States, you went and they had inspectors. We call them gumshoes, couldn't hear them around. They watched people working. Oh, they worked with Was it? You did your job and you did it outstanding lately, Rock. I'll do it again and I saw all this.

00:23:51.340 - 00:24:28.220

There's a book called The Canal Builders, which I'm telling you about right now. It's It's a the history Professor, University of Maryland wrote the book. Excellent. Excellent book. You can see it here in the museum if you take a look at it. Look, But that book explains to me what waas I live the way I did when I was there because it started their 19 10 and all that and building all of these, you know, a Zeiss A You didn't elect anybody unless you had a absentee ballot.

00:24:28.340 - 00:25:03.950

We never had an election for anything. The governor was basically just a name was run by an executive secretary Who was the boss. We'll know who the executive Secretary waas and then all these sub bosses going down. So you didn't. However, I got the feeling is a kid growing up down there that all those owners didn't much care for the Democrats in charge back in Washington from FDR on because they made certain policies, but we carry them out.

00:25:04.580 - 00:25:23.360

Well, then, of course, Then you've got a Republican Eisenhower there. You guys notice a difference between administrations and they always e don't use the word, But they always complained about what the state's was doing. Leave us alone. We're getting our things done. there was a Panama Canal.

00:25:23.960 - 00:25:51.830

I think it was a committee under the direction of the Secretary of the Army. Who would see the number one guy in Washington, D. C. That was representing the canal to the secretary of Back in the States of war. And then the President s o. The secretary of the Army was like the The governor was usually a general in the corps of Engineers.

00:25:51.840 - 00:26:11.660

You can understand why, sure, but he was more of a title kind of a guy. Hey, had a nice house up on the hill. Yeah. Beautiful place. No. Are you asked about homes? Uh, and they built these homes about the town of Balboa Was a marsh.

00:26:12.040 - 00:26:29.410

Mhm. There's this hill called an con hill. And another hill. Social hill. Another canal. And what do you do with the diggings? You bring them, and you put in this marsh and you bring them out. And then you built this town. What else you do? The diggings.

00:26:29.410 - 00:26:50.980

Well, there were these three islands out here where they put these fortifications. How do you get back to the mainland? You build a causeway, all from the diggings. So that's where a lot of that went and we lived in the ball boy flats. The land was off flat there, and that was on top of sort of fill.

00:26:50.990 - 00:27:15.850

It was filled. Erred. Yeah, we all lived on filter there. And then Balboa Heights was a little up the hill on an con hill toward Panama City and way built two kinds of houses wooden ones built for the tropics, all screened in and therefore families. And then one building, one building for families a B, C D.

00:27:17.240 - 00:27:35.570

And then from the administration building, which was up on a hill down to the center of my town of Balboa, where the clubhouse waas It's a restaurant and toiletries and theater, all that kind of stuff. There was a street coming down there, and on both sides of that, we built concrete houses.

00:27:35.580 - 00:28:02.030

Once again, four house is always built off the ground, not for flooding insects, Right. You go up the stilt. And there was this tin thing going around to keep going up. So we had those and in each house had these two laundry Oh, things You did not live according to the canal records on the street.

00:28:02.040 - 00:28:19.960

You lived in the house. We live on streets. Have names, Sure, but according to the you live in Balboa will wait for a house beat. That was on your official Your mailing address. If I mailed you a letter, that's what. No, no, no. Okay. No mail came to the house.

00:28:20.050 - 00:28:40.430

Oh, never know. Mehlman walking around Baba. Oh, post office, Diablo, Coast office and con. Each town had its own post office, and it was all delivered there. And then we all had a box. 3.5 to 4. That was our It was delivered there. What was that?

00:28:40.430 - 00:29:04.180

3.5. 2.5. That was the combination ago. You remember all these years? Oh, yeah. And it was really funny because our arses box 111 and it was in the top role. And we drive up into the parking lot. Stop the car, look upon our box and the lights inside the office would reflect if we saw the light weigh drove.

00:29:04.180 - 00:29:24.770

Monica's was nothing in there. Just a side of things. Now we had no number, and we everything was airmail. If you wanted to get a stateside back. If you mail something? Regular mail took 3 to 4 weeks on the slow ship. So that's way male waas?

00:29:25.140 - 00:29:44.250

No, uh, long distance telephone. We sent cables so on. Okay. Wrote lots of letters. Now when you were growing up, What about your immediate family? You told me about your aunts and uncles. What about your immediate family? Uh, I have a sister. Listen, can I get now?

00:29:44.260 - 00:30:08.670

She's three years younger than I. Um, So there were four of us on where they were there. Sports for her to play. Girl's got their sports too, but not as much as boys in high school, they played volleyball and softball. And I say basketball. Uhh, that's about it.

00:30:08.670 - 00:30:29.770

For them, they didn't have a track. Uh, and so on they would play the other schools and we would go out and cheer them as they would go out and cheer us while we were playing. But there was no nothing to keep you from being an active person.

00:30:29.970 - 00:30:55.450

Whether it be a boy or girl in the high school, the Spanish club, the chemistry club, the foot photography club, the we had all these clubs that you could join also and each club had a the sponsor from the high school. And that was good. And what were your favorite besides the sports?

00:30:56.140 - 00:31:18.260

Not much. I got electric train as a kid and I just love my electric train. Lots of rain. It rained 85 inches on my side. Pacific 115 on the Atlantic side. So we had nine months range. Three months, No rain. Yeah, so I would get the train out and play with it and have a lot of I spent.

00:31:18.270 - 00:31:33.860

I didn't mind being alone. I did model airplanes, which you can't get any more made out of balsa wood. Sure, sure. You can't get those? Hardly. Can you find them? I don't know. With rubber bands and stuff. Not not the kind you make yourself put an engine on.

00:31:33.940 - 00:32:02.900

And we made our own scrapbooks. A buddy of mine. Albert Joyce. He and I did football. Another friend of mine, Norby Jones. We did World War Two to me and my group. If we say war, we know what we mean. It was the war World War two, Uh, with my group.

00:32:02.910 - 00:32:20.310

That was it. And the Panamanians made our newspapers there were two a morning and afternoon. I don't know if you've been told about that. No, I haven't. I was pregnant. I was just thinking to myself how you kept up with the star and Harold was the morning and the Panama American.

00:32:20.380 - 00:32:43.340

The evening that was divided into two parts. On the outside was English. Three or four pages on the inside with Spanish, three or four pages. But no matter who you work, you got both right And I was greatly interested in in the war. Every evening I would get the paper and find out What?

00:32:43.350 - 00:32:59.410

What was the fourth Army doing? What was the 15th Air Force doing? And I knew the commanding generals and where they were going each time I follow it all the way to Normandy and all the rest of the stuff. So that's how he did that. Now let me ask about the newspaper real quick.

00:32:59.420 - 00:33:26.390

You said the Panamanians produced it? Yes. And were they Panamanians who did the reporting in the writing and the no in the English. It with the AP, the U P. That they, however, would have one of their reporters right up our sports in English or something that was going on with our local government canals unemployed, they would.

00:33:26.400 - 00:33:48.960

And we also had some Americans. Cem Zonen's would be employed by the newspaper Todo do things so that aren't We had our own local news and inside. Well, I was gonna ask you, Is the sports fan were you able to follow stateside? Yes. And how did you do that?

00:33:49.130 - 00:34:24.570

All they gave with the line scores. No box scores. I devoured it. My dad was from Cleveland, so I was an Indians fan. Hated the Yankees, All this stuff on every kid who was the Yankee fan. You just want to be a winner. Anyway, on my new I followed all the bowl games in football in Indianapolis and the Kentucky Derby, and all these things were important to me and to the States are Yeah, so all we get with the whole line leaders.

00:34:24.780 - 00:34:52.360

But at night, radio short band E would turn the dial, and I might get a station from New York City. Really? Yeah. Or Florida. But what I could see or maybe Dallas or somewhere in Texas? Yeah. New York. Fabulous. Yeah. And, uh, usually, I would get a baseball recreation game that took a half on our This is the whole thing, boy.

00:34:52.360 - 00:35:16.560

To come to bed. You know, the folks e. And then on weekends, we got Radio Live Mel Bar, Red Barber Dodgers and Mel Island for the Yankees. And I just fell in love with those guys. To me, they were the ultimate baseball announcers. So let's. That's the way I followed.

00:35:16.560 - 00:35:44.340

Those are radio. And then eventually it was Armed Forces radio station. That was the only English. And later, after the war, the TV came down stay. And our radio, we would have the Shadow and Jack, Benny and Hope. But there were three months late on our movies for the same way we got your stateside movies.

00:35:44.350 - 00:36:09.060

But there were three months later, but we did get the Movietone news right on bod, and each town had its own theater. So down would come gone with the wind. And it was starting. Balboa going to Diablo Goto and con you Copy? Yeah. So if you miss you miss it your time you could go to the next time and watch movies were very big.

00:36:09.070 - 00:36:29.990

Friday night was a a Buck Rogers cereal with a movie. And during the summer they put on for us. Keep us busy. A serial on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon Matinee. We didn't get our air conditioned theater until the year I graduated high school. 1950. We were the first class doing the air conditioned there.

00:36:30.000 - 00:36:46.920

There was no air conditioning while I lived on this song. Fans, whatever. So that was kind of need. Now, once you graduated, you graduated in 1950. What did you do after that? You said you're on the college track in high school. So did you go to college?

00:36:47.460 - 00:37:14.350

If so, where my mom? North Carolina. My dad. Ohio. We're gonna go school. I go to Duke. Or maybe Ohio State. Maybe a Southern Cal. My dad, We're gonna say, Oh, accounting my dad. So I wanted to go to a small school. It was a small school in North Carolina called Guilford.

00:37:14.360 - 00:37:41.060

My grandmother was given a scholarship there. It's a Quaker school. I thought I got their application. Everything. And then my dad said, You know, Grandpa is living in Pasadena and I remember a small school there. Let's see about that. Occidental College. Hmm. Four years what Toxie and then married to your Army.

00:37:41.430 - 00:38:14.180

Berkeley. Another credential started teaching. So in 2000 and eight, my genealogy society and and secondly, that belong to I said to my You know, folks, I've got something in common with our two candidates, McLean and Obama. McLean and I were born in the same place. Hey was born the canals and Obama and I attended the same college, just as on site.

00:38:14.320 - 00:38:37.160

And I was brought up to think you can never be president the United States because you are not born within the Continental limits. That's what I was told, even though it was an American citizen, by birth, by birth and by location. Well, up came the certain people during the thing and wanted to say, Oh, McCain can't do it because he was born in the council.

00:38:38.320 - 00:39:01.430

Yeah, I was born in the Navy Coco Solo on the Atlantic Side, but he had two American parents showing an American territory. I thought, Well, that blows my someone like Dio e just inside I I grew up in a military town. It's Edgewood, Maryland, its's now called Aberdeen Proving Ground.

00:39:01.440 - 00:39:16.890

Uh, chemistry, chemical stuff, weapons and ordinance But I had lots of military friends, and they were born all over the world. And they were always told they could be president, even if as long as they were born on a military and their pair of their parents were.

00:39:16.900 - 00:39:42.260

That's what they were told anyway. So nothing but lies, lies, lies. Yeah. Eso did you return once you finished college, Did you return to the canal zone? Uh, okay. So 56 came first. Child, 58 2nd child, 61 3rd child. And you're aware when your Children where Where are you?

00:39:42.270 - 00:40:03.960

In Sacramento. Mark was born in Arizona when I was in the Army. Douglas, Arizona, and then back Sacramento. Two girls and my folks still working both for the Panama Canal. And they paid our way down when we had the sun was two and the daughter was one way went down for a Christmas.

00:40:05.310 - 00:40:48.040

They brought me home my first summer from Oxy. And then the next three summers I stayed and worked at the school and went down to Christmas time. Andi, that's 50 nine. I think it waas Then I didn't go back until 76. 79. 79 was a year that the Carter two rails treaty took place, and the the land five miles on each side, coast to coast was in October 79 was to become Panamanian.

00:40:48.810 - 00:41:10.430

So my sister and brother in law was still working there, and they said Come down last time. So I went down, spent two weeks with them, and I took my daughter, who just graduated high school. That was 79. Then I kind of got homesick. And in 2004, my wife and I went back toe.

00:41:10.440 - 00:41:34.530

What's called the Dries isn't where there's a company here operated by a classmate of mine, and you spend nine or 10 days down there and they take you around. I just loved it, had a great time. Then, in 2005, my wife, like, Oh, my sister and my cousin and her two cousins went with us.

00:41:35.510 - 00:41:54.140

And then the next year, my wife and I went alone, and I said, I don't want to spend so much time touring. I don't want to spend time in Balboa where I could walk around in 2006, I said to my wife, hesitantly, Are we going back to Panama.

00:41:54.810 - 00:42:24.010

Yes. Way are Who's going? She said. Everybody I said What? I said, Yeah, I've talked to the kids. I thought they all want to go, and we're taking him 13 of us. Wow. So you had kids, grandkids, three married Children, five grandchildren. And I got in touch with my high school friend and he gave her all the arrangements.

00:42:24.130 - 00:42:45.810

I ordered all the tickets, got them all down there at a great tour. We had our own little mini bus in all over the place, and they saw the places that I was talking about. Just prove that I'm not a liar s o. That was 2006 and we had a good time in 2000 and eight.

00:42:46.600 - 00:43:05.620

I took my son. E wanted him to see just he and I a little bit more bonding and we could do what we wanted to dio. And he could ask questions. In fact, he would, but hiss okay, audio thing quarter on and he interviewed May while we were there.

00:43:05.620 - 00:43:24.230

Why Dad, did you do this? And I had to do that. We had a good time. So 2000 and eight was the last time okay. You plan on going back? Yes. And you specific plans? Er, just sort of, uh, each time I've been back, I go to a place that I had never been.

00:43:24.230 - 00:43:50.440

A za can't on the Atlantic side went to Portobello, which is quite important in the history of trade, because Colombia ships would come to Portabello, ship them by river and back mule or whatever to the other side. Chilean gold. Come up, Go across to the The Spaniards were down there for only one reason to bring back gold on silver.

00:43:50.800 - 00:44:15.110

That's why they have the political systems they have now. Whereas states it was colonizing back to the king, etcetera. That's why we had where we do today. So it's interesting to go back. And I've never been to the interior of Panama torch Costa Rica and I did that in 2014.

00:44:16.090 - 00:44:35.420

I know where my coffee comes from now, and I order all my coffee from Panama. There's an outfit right here. The convention they called coffee from Panama Americans and they buy their coffee, their ship with the Florida grind it. And now, now, if I'm if I'm thinking about comparing Panamanian coffee other coffee.

00:44:35.420 - 00:44:56.090

What am I looking for? What is what's good about Panamanian coffee? Other. That's from your home. Uh, altitude and shade. Okay. Altitude, shade and rain. Make your coffee and the best coffee is grown. The beans are grown, they're called varies by the way in shade. Okay.

00:44:56.100 - 00:45:18.720

I've heard of shade grown coffee, and most of Puerto Rican, Costa Rican and Panamanian from the top cities were grown. And Volcan, uh, that's where it is on. We went through one of those. What? We were there in 2004. Very interesting. So that's why I get my and how to grind it and how to make it.

00:45:19.580 - 00:45:46.320

We Americans like our drinks. Sweet. We don't like sour. So we put in sugar and milk and our beers and Cokes were all, you know, like, kind of thing. But anyway, uh, Panamanians drink cafe con leche. Uh, you say, uh, I've heard of it. You have coffee in this hand on the milk in this, and you go like this when we're Costa Rica once.

00:45:46.440 - 00:46:03.990

Is it steamed milk or is it cold? Or it's usually can milk. Okay, It z he didn't then taking off the word curse or whatever. And we were in San Jose, Costa Rica. Go on back in 79. Put our daughter on airplanes to ship her back home.

00:46:03.990 - 00:46:34.130

My wife and I stayed there and for breakfast at Cafe Negra Senior carry Negra. You don't order black coffee in Costa Rica? He just ordered coffee. Now let's see knowledge she didn't know what to do. We were sitting there with the volcanoes. All that sitting there one morning and our cubicles where we had breakfast in the next.

00:46:34.130 - 00:46:59.480

You couldn't see over the top I Well, we're gonna go today, and we're gonna I'm gonna go here in Nicaragua and you guys go over there and we'll meet here. And there it was. ABC News. Oh! Oh, What's the guy's name? I'll fret. Not afraid off the he's now with Fox News.

00:47:00.280 - 00:47:24.830

Thats name will come to me. Oh, yeah. I could picture on the Alfredo is getting in the way In the way, it'll come to me, but that's it rolled over. Very. He was here, young girl. He was He was saying that we're gonna do this. We're gonna try to get because this was the Nicaraguan Revolution they can't on East us.

00:47:24.840 - 00:47:47.410

Uh, what we're doing. So in the hotel one night, we heard all this ruckus. And that was when the Sandinistas why he took control of the Costa Ricans who had Sandinistas living because they don't wanna be there. I mean, the others, they were given permission with the Costa Ricans Thio parade.

00:47:48.180 - 00:48:08.470

So we were there during that time. Rather interesting. Now, what was that like in 79 you went and visited. You knew that your home was about ready to be sort of turned over to the Panamanian. What was that like? What was the what? Did you go back and see what was important to you?

00:48:08.470 - 00:48:39.250

And how did you feel until until 2000, when the whole thing was given over? Uh, my friends, my sister was still there and somewhat Yeah, like treaty. They were the zone. Ian's were offered retirement full retirement before age 50. Or you could stay, keep working, and then and retire and get more.

00:48:39.260 - 00:48:59.520

My sister and brother in law decided to stay a little bit longer, so I kept staying in, come in in the zone, which was still Panama. It was it was done the right way. There was a commission operated for the first few years. It was American, five, Panamanian for Chairman, American.

00:48:59.530 - 00:49:25.980

After that, it switched. And they were making sure that all of these positions that were very vital to the Operation Canal were being handed over in the right way. Training a Panamanian, the American would stay and so on and so on went rather well. But when I went down in 79 I said, Tomas, somebody classified.

00:49:25.980 - 00:49:44.880

Tell you guys, how come they said, Boy D, the senators came down here and they interview this and I said, You're right. We have to keep this. They went right back to the Senate, voted for the treaty, so some of them were a little bit upset with that.

00:49:44.890 - 00:49:57.940

I never wa So I'm a little confused to the senators. Came down U S senators, right, And they were told what they were told. They would interview my friends who are still living their local employees. What do you think they said? No, we have to keep doing this.

00:49:57.940 - 00:50:15.350

We have to keep showing the most important thing about an American. Wherever you go is maintenance. We maintain things. We don't let him fall apart. And that was important to the operation. You had to clean those gates. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And all this stuff. So they were concerned.

00:50:15.860 - 00:50:32.920

So they made sure that during the interim time, those who were to take over would know what to do. So when the senators went back, then they voted for the treaty. So they felt so your friends felt that they were betrayed. Exactly. Okay. And I was living in the states of the time.

00:50:32.930 - 00:50:47.220

People were asking me This was big time. I said, What do you think? I said, Look, I'm a pragmatist. If it works, it works. I don't know what's gonna happen. We really don't know what's gonna happen. Let's hope for the best. I'm not against this. I'm not for it, E.

00:50:47.220 - 00:51:24.290

I think it's going rather well when I go back. It's sufficient. Panish doing a good job. They're now building that new set of locks to be done in 14 or something like that. So but And it was wise thing that this treaty did, it made the operation of the canal and its income separate from the Republican Panama's budget because, yeah, Panamanians have a way of Well, they're history has been oligarchy.

00:51:25.260 - 00:51:40.290

And which family takes over now and makes the money which family takes now it makes me so they had to separate that so that this canal could do what it wanted to do. So when they passed that referendum of six bears, so they had no problem because I knew where the money was coming from.

00:51:40.960 - 00:51:58.740

That was why sink to sure? Yeah. I've only been in a couple of these interviews or listen to some that have done previously. That seems to be the It was like consensus, but consensus that this, you know, it has turned out. And there's some of my friends who will refute what I'm saying.

00:51:58.930 - 00:52:15.760

They will. Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe I'll talk to some of them now. Did you ever personally work for the canal zone? One summer. When I went home, I was a recreation director off Jim. I ran since I was a P E major. Yeah, that's all I ever worked.

00:52:15.770 - 00:52:34.520

Your P e Major has a college in college. Is that what you taught them when you taught for six years in Sacramento and then I went to San Diego County town called Elka Home Elementary District, and I became a supervisor in a principal. And then my last 11 years, I taught grades 45 and six.

00:52:34.690 - 00:53:00.430

Wonderful. So I did all this? Yeah, I loved it. E had another question. I have completely forgotten what it waas All right. Oh, I know what I was gonna say. Now my understanding is and of course, please always correct me, Um, that it was towards the fifties when you start to see a lot more of the protests the, you know, writing or more peaceful protests by the paintings.

00:53:00.440 - 00:53:22.260

Were you there for any of that, or you gon I left in 50. Okay, 61 man. Now, every once a year, I can't remember what time of the year it waas the students of the University of Panama, which is just a few streets over from the zone before the July Avenue zone.

00:53:22.260 - 00:53:57.010

Panama said if you walked across the street, you're in a foreign country. Thes kids students protested about their government, and sometimes they got close. Our army would put tanks on and soldiers just just make sure they didn't come over Well, I'm gonna find out tomorrow night when I talk with my classmates more about this thing about them coming over to babble high school and shooting.

00:53:57.010 - 00:54:17.170

And there's now a monument there to the kids who fell Panama. And what year was then? I'm sorry. What year was that? 61. Somewhere around there. Eisenhower, President. And what they wanted was they wanted to put the American flag in front of my high school, a family flag from our high school.

00:54:18.500 - 00:54:37.920

And I said, What's the big deal? Put him up. So he did. And at the administration building where we had our our government Well, what ran the canal to a top of an con hill which looked into the panel on one side, was quite quite an impressive hill.

00:54:37.930 - 00:54:57.750

We had one too. Now you go back Panamanian economy way, And I was living in Sacramento at the time. I picked up a copy of Look magazine. Okay, Can't find a way. And they had a NAR tickle about the goings on. Thought it was just telling you.

00:54:57.850 - 00:55:21.750

I read this one guy in an article. He was quite biased. I thought he was again us. Hey, said Even the Canal Zone students don't study Spanish. It took me that long to pick up a piece of paper and write that man dear sir, care of Look magazine.

00:55:22.540 - 00:55:46.490

I am from the canal zone in the seventh grade in 1943 or four. Eighth grade, ninth grade and 10th grade. I took Spanish in Canal Zone schools and stock Spanish afterwards and had Panamanian students going to my school. You are wrong. Your rights back. A piece of paper like this and his own handwriting.

00:55:47.240 - 00:56:13.470

Dear Mr Bevington, my wife has told me to go to the kitchen blackboard and write 100 times Spanish was taught in the Canal Zone schools. Okay, big deal. But they never came back and look magazine to correct what he said make us look bad. Yeah, well, that was heard that from the previous group that there was there was misinformation in the sense about my sister was keeping me up.

00:56:13.470 - 00:56:29.660

She would send articles from the papers and she would type them up and send up to May. That way, I kept kept with it. Mhm. But I want to know more about how my friends thought about it when they were lived there. I don't I didn't get much of that.

00:56:30.030 - 00:56:45.130

Okay, well, we typically plan for these things to be about an hour. That's about all people could take talking. Well, sometimes if they get going, you know, they could last an hour and a half. But everyone I've done, everyone starts winding down. So we're getting too, About the one hour mark.

00:56:45.140 - 00:56:58.400

I spent a lot of time last night in bed thinking about what to say to you. Well, what have you not said that you wanted to say that? E Then I've gone over this reunion. I'm having foreign. I've spent over a year getting things together for Thio to go through with it.

00:56:58.400 - 00:57:18.540

And I'm writing a memoir. E Canal Zone memoir 1930 to 1950 which is when I left. You know, I'd meet somebody even today I could meet somebody. Don't know me. I don't know them. Oh, hi. I'm a e boy. Baby, turn up here. Harry. Where you from?

00:57:18.930 - 00:57:50.380

Yeah, Mhm. Um I'm from the canal, so look like where in the heck is that? So now I don't say that. I said I'm from the Panama Canal zone. Oh, your folks were in the military, right? Yeah. And I say to myself how much education but where I grew up, Did you ever get because I know more about where you got it?

00:57:50.390 - 00:58:09.900

Because I said the same book. You shoot it. Zilch. I said, no, I I think you need to know that the operation of the canal was by civilians. Totally military were there for defense. Onley. That's it. So that's all right? Rather memoirs for my kids and grandkids.

00:58:09.900 - 00:58:27.420

Anybody else wants to read it? A lot of my friends were writing things. I started it in this in the computer. And I get back to it now and again. That can pictures that I did my genealogy. I've got books of knowing about Why was I there?

00:58:27.430 - 00:58:46.660

Who were my people? And I think I've told you quite a bit About who they were sore all the way back to the American Revolution in this kind of thing. Oh, um, So the Panamanian let me just backtrack to something that you did mention the Panamanians did go to your high school.

00:58:47.020 - 00:59:09.460

So it wasn't strictly canal zone school for just canal zone we paid nothing. If they wanted to come over which they did, they paid a tuition. I don't know what it waas so there might have been in my class 20 or 30. Now, these were not How shall I say?

00:59:11.320 - 00:59:35.340

Yeah, the republic is run by European oriented. That's the proper way to say short. And the workers are local workers. Many of them we brought over and they lived in Panama from Barbados. And so on, Uh, and the local Indians there they do their manual labor for the for the Panama.

00:59:35.920 - 01:00:02.540

And we hired them. Yeah, at 40 60 cents our toe do the hard work. So that was that. Was that so The kids who came to your high school, that would be that they were they would goto they would go on to the states. Many of them became lawyers, and all their doctors in Panama went to our schools.

01:00:03.210 - 01:00:26.460

And I think now the University of Panama offers medical. I think they have an excellent They have created an excellent I understand its social security system take care of their people. Yeah, and, uh, they've improved their working conditions for their for their for their people. Many of the kids are the Penha means they're still working on the zone.

01:00:26.470 - 01:00:58.660

They're working on the locks, you know, the mules that pull the ships through those air operators all, All Panamanian? No. And 79. When I went back 79 I went back High school classmate, Old Georgian MacArthur. He had become a supervisor of the Mira Forest locks. The first locked you come to, and he made arrangements for me to come out and my wife and my daughter and we went across.

01:00:58.670 - 01:01:19.640

There's a walkway over the lake over the gates. And there was a, uh, tourists walk where they could watch. They never went across, way, walked across a guy had just come back from vacation. And he said, This fellow board is gonna take you and your wife and daughter places People are not permitted to go.

01:01:20.200 - 01:01:43.200

You're going down. I had never been down in the end there, So all of the big tunnels where the water goes, no pump puts water in and out of the lake. It's all centrifugal gravity, and we saw these huge year wheels that would open the gates.

01:01:43.210 - 01:02:11.300

Ah, £40 electric motor 40. Excuse me. 40 horsepower started one and then they do the others. Sure, dope. And then we went up into the operation. There's a building over the Kyle and we're still on the side on. We were invited to go. Insight. In the middle of this room is the operation of the each lock.

01:02:11.750 - 01:02:28.110

And there are handles to go like this. Turn on. The guy said to me, Would you like to open that lock? I'm getting a simple safer right now. What I ever eso he says that ships coming through. I'll tell you when to do it. Okay, Flip it.

01:02:28.120 - 01:02:43.490

I flipped it walked out and I watched the gate open. And that's the first time you've ever seen the actual working. No. No. First time I've ever been in the control tower operator. I've seen them many times. So that was one of the thrills of my life.

01:02:43.500 - 01:02:59.610

Just be able to do that. It's like going up the Empire State Building. E never went through the canal until 79. Oh, wow. How exciting It sit on the side of the come out there where I lived in 1941 for for the war broke out. Look at those ships.

01:02:59.610 - 01:03:34.240

Go by, said E. I wonder where he's coming from. I wonder where he's going. I'd wave with the sailors anyway. So be it. Um So, like I asked you before, Is there anything else that we haven't? Did you thought of last night? Or that the story you wanted to tell or an anecdote that you think that might illustrate your life in the canal In the Republic, they had no army, no police force.

01:03:34.240 - 01:04:01.140

They had what we call LaGuardia, their national Guard, which is used by Torrijos and Noriega. And they became commanders in this outfit. And if you became a commander, you could overthrow the government and take over which those two guys did. And we were told, Don't fool around with the Guardia and they they will see the gringos coming over.

01:04:01.140 - 01:04:23.840

You know, don't fool around degree. So I was very respectful of their authority. It's not my country, it's theirs. And you did not want to get picked up and taken to the hoosegow for whatever reason. So we were very careful. We walked on her shop or dance or eat or whatever which you could Dio quite often.

01:04:23.840 - 01:04:41.420

Did you do it often? Uh, my folks love my mom and dad loved dancing and there were three beer gardens which actually were open air restaurants and dancing floors with life music. They love to go over there and dancing would occasionally take us over there. Thio eat.

01:04:41.990 - 01:05:00.970

That was that. Otherwise he went to the hotel, typically an American side. So that was a lot of fun. We'd go over there after after dinner and they would put a tray on the in your window and put the beer there. I got a little pony up, which was a jigger of here and there.

01:05:00.970 - 01:05:33.620

And that was that was kind of fun. And then when I was living in San Diego and working there, my sisters youngest child, yeah, just gotten out of the Air Force and he was living up near Riverside, California and he had a buddy had gone down, parked the car at the border and gone over, and they were at a bar just according to their stories, just standing there with beer in their hands.

01:05:36.190 - 01:05:55.890

Officer who's go? Well, I treated the Mexican federal leases and police the same way I did the Panamanians. I respected them. So he calls me on the phone. Uncle Boyd, I'm in the jail down here. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but also obviously tried to tough it out.

01:05:55.930 - 01:06:08.410

Well, it was just a great big wanted to pee. You did it on the floor. If you wanted a blanket, you had to pay a buck for it or whatever. And he calls me a few hours later, he says, Uncle Boy, I can't take this. Okay?

01:06:08.410 - 01:06:27.010

Where are you? He says I'm in the downtown. I'm in the jail. Okay, so I go down by my insurance fight. It's a nice policeman tells me where to go. We went there. And there's things Big jail. It's not. The main jail in Tijuana was one outside.

01:06:27.680 - 01:06:42.920

And they're all these people gather around this gate, and I don't know what they were doing it. So I one guy looked at me and in English said, Sir, do you wanna You got somebody back there? I said, yeah. Just go up there. Tell that guy his name.

01:06:43.680 - 01:06:59.820

Okay. He says there's no such thing as a line here in Mexico, So I did and eventually his name was called and Steve came out. He says, Uncle Boyd, my buddies still back there, and I had gone to find the where I could pay the fine.

01:07:00.090 - 01:07:16.280

No, sir. You got to go back into the main jail. Well, I did, and I paid under, Paid the fine back there. And then they get back to the other jail on I ask a policeman there. How am I gonna get there? Sir, I'm going back there.

01:07:16.280 - 01:07:38.450

Now. You follow. Put him. Get in my car. He gets this car, puts his red light on top. Goes on the center, if you wanna. With through every red light I'm still alive on. I paid the money for the kid. Got him out. Now it's not my way to say What in the heck did you do bottle of about Dr.

01:07:40.480 - 01:08:04.790

I said, Steve, what did we learn in Panama? What did we learn? The Panama respect for the local authorities. His uncle boy, I was doing not the point. That's all I said. E didn't bawl him out. Then they put him in the car. And it's a Sunday on that.

01:08:05.270 - 01:08:21.200

Americans going back into California on Sunday. It's a to our rate just to get up to the border in the car. Sure. So I said, Steve, you and your guy get out. You gonna walk up to the get there fast for me, Uncle boy, we don't have any money.

01:08:23.050 - 01:08:41.320

I gave him 40 bucks. I'll pay you back. So they made it up to the front, got in their car and drove back saying That's on the side from my bringing up. And he was brought up in the same way. Yeah, my sister stayed there and all of her kids graduated school.

01:08:41.320 - 01:09:04.630

They went to the same, but her schooling of her kids was different from my school, apparently. Now, do you think that, uh, was that reflected on how he grew up there? Was he less? He and his cohort, maybe less respectful of the Panamanian authorities. You know, my my poor sister, Just drover almost to death.

01:09:04.640 - 01:09:24.320

She did not want to call me. She didn't want, want toe. Her big brother had to do this for me. And she finally got enough courage to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you for what you did for my son. So I don't wanna put anything on him or anything in the way of a lot of kids in California is good honor.

01:09:24.330 - 01:09:53.380

Get Morocco and come back, You know, whereas my dad said to me, You want a beer, tell me. We'll sit down here. You can have a beer, but don't go into Panama on drink now, does e don't even know how to ask the question except to ask that, you know, as you're growing up, then does that reflect sort of your you and your friends and your family's attitude towards the Panamanians in general?

01:09:53.380 - 01:10:21.900

In that line, um, did you was at a respectful distance between the two? Or how did you interact with Panama people? We were the Yankees. We were the gringos. We had money. Way had a nice place to live. I felt never felt that I needed police living in the zone.

01:10:21.910 - 01:10:40.490

I never had a key to our house. Never had a key was never locked. The Panama is respected. The fact that you don't come into our territory year. Gosh, well, you can't carry that attitude in tow. It's a foreign country. They have their own rules and laws.

01:10:41.160 - 01:11:06.910

So I was taught to respect it, right? Andi, not to take advantage, but to some Americans. They hate to use the word, but they were ***, which is a derogatory term. Uh, my dad would not use the word. I didn't either. Now it's just going back to that story about your nephew that does that.

01:11:06.920 - 01:11:28.600

Did your friends use that that attitude, or is that something you saw coming in from later generations? See? Almost almost almost gone 2030 years. Uh, it was until I was in college and went home that summer where my buddies and I would go to Ah, a bar and have a couple of beers was right on the border.

01:11:28.610 - 01:11:53.840

We went to a place that was not to involved with the city, and we didn't do a great deal of it, but I never I wanted to get picked up. Yeah, my parents disgraced by so on. So that's it. Okay. Well, thank you again. One more chance.

01:11:53.850 - 01:12:16.530

One story. You want to get out of your system? Ah, I don't know. You know, Can also was a very special place. Way had socialized medicine. We have to pay for a doctor if I got hurt, I walk into the dispensary and got fixed up. So I don't see a doctor.

01:12:16.530 - 01:12:34.070

I wouldn't put my name. And I saw the doctor. No bills, Nothing way. Didn't have to paint our houses Have two more lawns. Things were done for us. Uh, actually, it's kind of neat. Way to live. You didn't have to worry about politics. You have to worry about your job, I guess.

01:12:34.850 - 01:13:09.680

But your schooling was done. It was stateside schooling. But our teachers taught us Panamanian songs and but not much of the families. I got that from reading McCullough and other books. This one I just told you about, uh, way. Even Zonen's. Today we have a Canal zone dance here and one night iss mostly Panamanian music way Love Thio to be Panamanians in certain way and and way sing and dance and have a good time.

01:13:11.050 - 01:13:32.240

And to this day we still do way like that. And my mom and dad would. Some Panamanians would come across to watch our baseball games. American guys, we go to see there's And if you wanted to do some shopping outside of our commissary, which didn't have much in the way of variety, and you could do it in depending on pay more.

01:13:32.240 - 01:13:55.700

But you would get something from France or whatever. All of our our, uh you could rent, uh, furniture. Or you could go into Panama on by from the the sings, the Indian people with their stores and Buddhists and all that kind of stuff. Uh, for the first few years, even into World War Two, we had a nice box.

01:13:56.250 - 01:14:21.730

Mhm, I struck came by every day. Give me a chip. So it sounds like you mentioned Indian. So it sounds like it was a very multicultural international place. Pan. Oh, Panama City was very much so. Very much so. A lot of Chinese on December. The first I lived across the street from what's called a quarantine station where my Uncle Sam, who was first one, go down there.

01:14:21.730 - 01:14:38.250

It worked and had a big, tall fence. And if if a seaman had a illness, he was taken off the ship and put in that quarantine station and he couldn't move on the night of December 7th. Well, here's the street. Here's the quarantine station. Here's our house.

01:14:38.250 - 01:15:02.960

Here's the street we had a blackout that night and all night long we heard trucks go by and we looked out. They were troop carriers of the U. S. Army. All night long, in the morning we got up, we walked down here and they had already put up tents, this old brown tents and in it were Japanese.

01:15:04.510 - 01:15:28.840

That night, the night of December 7th, our government knew, apparently because they rounded them all up where every Japanese living in Panama Waas at Panama said you can come over and get him. Mm. And these were Panamanian citizens, at least resident Japanese citizens. I mean, they're Japanese citizens, but they might have been, and but they're living in Panama.

01:15:28.850 - 01:15:52.360

They were living in Panama, working with the working channel, and then later they had a Germans and Italians, and they made a thing bigger. And here's Fort Amador right next to it. Well, the Fordham our soldiers had nothing to do with this containment. They brought in more, uh, tents and brought in their own guards.

01:15:53.140 - 01:16:33.120

And there were four turrets built above the fence with machine guns and guards walked 24 hours a day. Unless I say, here's our house one night. Some soldiers we've later found out they were Barocco drunk climbed up to this tour it now American soldiers. I'm sorry, Mary, who were stationed here, and this fence was probably 10 ft high, and our house was probably the higher than that fence, But the tour was little bit higher.

01:16:33.120 - 01:16:55.490

So anyway, I was just in bed and I stepped out on the porch area. They had climbed up there to that machine gun and were firing it. If they had turned it this way, I might not be sitting here. Uh oh. Where were they? Were they just firing it into an empty field?

01:16:55.490 - 01:17:17.280

Or I guess they fired this way. Uh, but we were told the next day that we learned that these guys were drunk and the guards had moved, so they couldn't see them. Hey, let's go up there. And e don't know, but I ducked down. My folks came in there, said, get out of bed and get down on the floor now.

01:17:17.290 - 01:17:41.900

Did they do that camp? Stay there. The duration of World War Two? Uh, I don't really remember, but I do recall it for the first few years, it waas when we went up to states and 42 of us still there, I think it came to spanned it toward the before the war was over.

01:17:41.910 - 01:18:01.350

And I think maybe they had shipped them up. I don't know. I don't know. You know, California had its Sure, absolutely, all over the West. So I don't know if what it waas but where? Bernie, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Uh, you know, here's the canal coming in.

01:18:01.360 - 01:18:28.250

Uh, and here's a place where the local Zonen's kept their sport bones and cruisers things. And then I hear these islands I told you about. Well, right here. Way built structure here on this site over on this side on the canal, and they put down a net to keep submarines out.

01:18:29.120 - 01:18:50.660

So every time a ship came, a little boat over here took this and opened it up. I could sit on them and watch this thing coming. That was one of the ways in which we defended the canal the other ways on the locks. They had these balloons that looked like a little space.

01:18:50.670 - 01:19:14.280

Uh, zap. Well, you know, e think. And they were just a few feet above to keep planes from getting in and die bombing the canal and then our our lights on our on our car were painted dark, and it was just a little slip just about the size for the light to go through.

01:19:14.280 - 01:19:45.940

And we drove that through the whole cut out of the war. That's that's it. Okay. Did you notice something with any other intrusions into your life or changes in your life during the war? Yeah. Um okay. How about rationing was there? I mean, there's rationing here in the states of various materials for their we did not have a ration card or rationing stamps or anything like that.

01:19:45.950 - 01:20:03.610

All we had was if it was there, you bought it, wasn't there. You didn't get it. So if you wanted, like, beer disappeared from our commentary way doesn't sell it. If you wanted a shirt, they might be there. Milk turned into Klim, which is milk spelled backwards.

01:20:03.610 - 01:20:22.630

And that was the powdered milk. And we had very clear it was called Clinton. I thought it can be a few years ago. Milk spelled backwards. I loved it. Way added water to the pattern most. Yeah, if it wasn't there like I'd go in. Mama needed repair.

01:20:22.630 - 01:20:46.090

She's okay. Meet me at the shoe stores. Four o'clock, she gets off. There were two parachutes to choose from. I went wild of the other day trying to find a birthday card for my son. Thousands of cards. Just show me six. Would you please, anyway, that that they're in Lizzie?

01:20:47.210 - 01:21:10.630

When we came to the States, my mom sisters went wild shopping to the States. She still looks shop. So that was that was it? I've carried a lot of things into my 78 years. They're still my moral. So customs and and I find myself being, uh huh.

01:21:11.010 - 01:21:33.110

We're open minded about certain things, and some of my zone ians are not. They're very strict about what they Anyway, so be it. Well, thank you very much for joining me again one last time. Any other stories? Every time I say that, you know, it sounds like it sounds like the conversation starts the lull and then e go on and on and on.

01:21:33.120 - 01:21:55.450

Just a za an adult. I was sorry that I never asked my dad and my grandfather and my uncles my aunt She was very helpful. She did remember a few things which helped me get started in my genealogy, which is very extensive with Bevington, then my bell side.

01:21:56.410 - 01:22:15.720

It was very interesting because my mother was brought Southerner. My father brought Northerner, but they still felt the same. My dad. I didn't feel my dad held any prejudice against Panamanians the way many people did. When I came back, we went to the States, my sister and mother and life.

01:22:15.900 - 01:22:36.080

A lot of people left because of the strategic canal. You know, in those days we only had one navy. Yeah, it went back and forth. It could fit that 110 ft 1000 ft long thing. And we always knew when the fleet was in because it sailors were coming off and couldn't get through our town fast enough to get in Panama City.

01:22:37.200 - 01:23:05.920

Well, after the war, it became too on. So I always grew up with it with the one one navy. And then we sell these. Now we, our carriers and other big ships can't even get through the penalties. Yeah. Yeah. There was one thing about that I want When I went to the States and came home after five months, I used the n word.

01:23:06.400 - 01:23:31.630

Mm. When you came back, my dad said, Don't ever use that in front of me again and I never used it before. The Panamanian depend on me and blacks were Beijing's. They weren't they weren't even Negroes. They were Beijing's. Beijing's okay, we call the workers that came to us from Barbados.

01:23:31.640 - 01:23:53.600

Beijing's okay, Yeah, they had the only way to play and talk the talk Beijing talk. Well, they had English because it was the English colony. And when they came down, for example, somebody will say, It's funny you grew up in Panama. Are you bilingual? Yeah. You speak English and Spanish?

01:23:53.600 - 01:24:18.850

I said No, A English and Beijing. It's a That's a funny thing. The majors. We have Beijing jokes alot about the Beijing They were they would need people and they nice to work with, Okay, but they didn't go to our schools. No black person ever went to my skills.

01:24:18.860 - 01:24:40.910

They had their own. Yeah. Now is it unofficially, sort of like our Jim Crow South separated, segregated by law is that they lived off the zone. They lived in the zone and had their own towns had their own theater. Their own commissary. Yeah. And they came to our commissary and served us.

01:24:41.790 - 01:25:06.290

We didn't go into their cancer. Mhm. And they were Zonen's. They They were not us citizens, not us. We did not hire Negroes from the US to go there Onley whites. So, uh, they were provided. Their professions were not as good as quotes the U. S.

01:25:06.410 - 01:25:24.030

In the early days, the U. S employees were paid in gold and all the other workers were paid in silver When the train patron came up, You got in this way. They got in this way After a few years, it became local rate employees in the U.

01:25:24.030 - 01:25:47.360

S. Rape. If you got on the train, the goals set here, the sewer set here. If you went into the train station, this was the toilet water for the goals. This was a golden right Now. How long did that continue then? You know Jim Crow breakdown after I left after I left.

01:25:47.420 - 01:26:14.280

I understand that after the land was given back and they started integrating, uh, I think some of the locals were could go toe are what I used to call US schools. Mhm, but not a Zeiss A. Some Panamanians could pay, right, but nobody else. They have their own schools, which were not as good as ours was not.

01:26:14.290 - 01:26:32.610

Their teachers were not as good as ours. That Z kind of sad. What about now into Panama? Do you keep up like how? No, no do. If you keep up. I mean, you know, in America, of course, now there's more integrated schools and you know, they integrated Maurin in Panama.

01:26:32.610 - 01:26:58.710

They still segregated society to keep up on that. Well, it's It's now the Republic of Panama. So my high school has been Z still there, the building, but it SSM kind of offices or rather, Panamanians. They're pretty good about their education. Its's mandatory. They're very literate, but I don't know if they're using the schools.

01:26:59.080 - 01:27:17.900

My elementary school is not used as a school. I don't think they're using what used to be the canal zone schools as schools and are are. We gave them everything, you know, showing the buildings, all the houses I lived in, our now Panamanian living in there.

01:27:17.910 - 01:27:41.810

But they have to buy, and many US former employees only ins are moving back. They're quiet, and they're now buying the houses, which we couldn't get, which the generals had and that kind of thing. And they I don't know what they're doing for. And as I said, there's a good Social Security system there in a good health system going.

01:27:41.810 - 01:27:54.890

So they're probably into that. And they like to get together with their buddies and do all things. No, there's nothing else I wanna tell you. Okay, Well, thank you very much.