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This is Candace Ellis and Al Sprague on July 8th 2011 at the Panama Canal Reunion in Orlando, talking about life and adventures and the Panama Canal Zone So we can start from the very beginning. How did you come to be in the zone? Or how did your family find themselves there?

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My father and mother run his depression. It was in the thirties. Hand up my dad used toe. They were so poor that my mom used toe, make him a banana sandwich. And then he would on the way, toe work or after work, he would stop in for a, uh, cup of tea and he'd say, Don't put the tea bag in the tea cup, you know, take the tea bag and put it in his pocket and he takes the warm water to the table, and he put catch up in it and have tomato soup.

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Then he take the tea bag home, and my mom and him would have t together, so they didn't have much money, and I had my sister, Joanie, who's here running around, too. She's five years older than me, but they met this couple, Peggy Corrigan, who was married to Alain de Leon.

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Where? I got my name. Alan from on. Uh, it was Peggy Deli on. They were married. Hey, was up in the United States. Um, um he had to spend six months working in the United States to become American citizen because she was from the West Indies, Uh, one of the Dutch islands out there.

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Excuse me. Anyway, um uh, they became friends, and they saw the plight of my parents. And so, uh, Alan fixed up, uh, got some kind of him into my dad introduced to the Texas Oil company in Panama. So my dad borrowed a $500 from my grandmother on back then it was a lot of money on, uh, he got on the old and con with my mom, who was pregnant with May, and they went to Panama, and I was born in Colon Panama.

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Eso That's how I came to be born. I was started in the US and born in Panama anyway. Hey, started. He worked for the Mount Hope, uh, Mount Hope tank Farm of Texaco oil Company. They had these tanks of gasoline, whatever oil and he worked for them for a year.

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Then he went over to the customs, Uh, customs Bureau for banking. Al, you got on with Bank Canal and you worked with them. And the next thing he got into the inspection bureau and then from the inspection bureau, he went into the accounting branch. My mother told me she usedto put all the books on accounting, and everything in the bathroom took all the other books out because that was that was only material read on.

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My dad really got interested in the county, so he worked his way up to assistant chief auditor Panama Canal. Uh, they never would let him become chief because he didn't have a college degree. And that be a lesson to people who don't want to get their degree.

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You know, there's still at that animosity out there, you know? Uh, anyway, um so from there, we moved over to the Atlantic. I mean, the Pacific side that was the Atlantic side moves through the Pacific side, and that was before World War Two. I was born in 38 38 and I remember Pearl Harbor.

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I remember everybody running around. I was only three years old, but, um my dad. Remember building air raid shelters underneath the house, these old wooden houses, sandbags. It puts and everybody got in together and we had blackouts. You had to put the screens down, turn off the lights.

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He used a flashlight at night or something, and it actually drive sometimes with just no light in your car. Um uh, it was actually, you know, being a kid in the war, you grew up thinking war. You know, I and it's I can't remember when we weren't in a war.

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So it's No, it's no mystery to me why we're not why we're in a war. I think it's a great country. I would rather be in American than anything. And I do have dual citizenship, though, and I love being Panamanian. Also Panama's I just love it.

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You go back often. Yeah, we back go back every other year or every year. My wife, she was born down there, and her parents were born down there, too. And her father, who came back and lived in Panama, was a torpedo plane pilot in the Navy during the Second World War.

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And, uh, he sank three ships and he he was out in the Pacific and he, uh, he got the distinguished Flying Cross to air medals and he was in the group that started the Blue Angels. But hey got out of the service, he said. I don't know the war.

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Sorry they let him go. But the rest of the guys, his group they went into they were War Bond tour on. He's put on performances. That's how it started. But anyway, see all of the Canal Zone is so inter mingled with each other. It's almost like everybody is related in some way or another, you know?

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And I feel like I'm related to the Corrigan's because the Corrigan's got me down, uh, to Panama. Well, Peggy Corrigan and Alan Daily own, but she was a Corrigan. And so I met all the other Corrigan's, and my dad met the Corrigan's and way. We're always on best.

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It turns on, uh, so I always been very close to the core against their wonderful bunch, Irishman. They're they're really Irish Thio. Um, then, uh um, I was a sickly kid. I wasn't I had absence years and, um, you know, general things. Kids have thoughts, lighters and all, but I liked keeping in shape and running and weight lifting.

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And eso i e stayed in good shape till I hurt my back. But that that Z because of all the things I did, e brought it on myself. But is there anything special you want? Sure. You were born in 1938 in Cologne. So? And you were raised there until when?

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When did you? Well, I was three years old when we moved to the Pacific side. Okay. And then when did you ultimately leave? Just trying to get a time frame. When did I What? When did you leave? Oh, go. To live in the States. Uh, 1989 1980.

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For the first time, I I left in to go to college in 19. 57 e. Went to Mississippi Southern College on. I've got a year. Almost two years in Aaron. I got kicked out s all right. I It wasn't all my fault either. E mean teacher had something to do with it, but uh huh.

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They kicked me out. Anyway, That just made it good for me to go to another school. A better school in American University in Washington. D C. And I got a bachelor's and a master's from their art in art. What kind of medium? Well, everything. Masters of art and art.

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E sculpture, art history, painting, drawing, you name it you. The only thing I haven't done is lithography, because I never had a machine where I could do it. But I've done everything else just about. Okay. Well, eso from 1938 to 1957 you know you're in the zone, so that's a that's a good amount of time.

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You know, you must have had a lot of different experiences just with schooling. Eso Why don't we start, You know, with with your experiences in grade school, high school and what that was like? Well, I remember a lot of fighting between the boys were between everybody just boys, you know, there's always a bully, always a bully waiting for you.

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I don't know about girls, but I know guys that I don't know. I used to wonder how the bullies get out of class so early, waiting at the door, you know, there there's somebody in the back door and you're in class and and they're going like this, you know, And so the guy next to me goes, Not me.

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I go. He's pointing at you. So I go out and get my black eye or whatever it was, you know. But I mean, it was that's what it was, a lot of fighting until I got into high school and then I got bigger and I and you know, he started to fight back a little.

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Which high school did you attend? Public High school, Actually. That's why I had to get the master's degree. Because thay school system was so good down there were on New York Regions tests. Okay, I didn't realize that, and they picked the highest evaluation they could. And the teachers?

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How toe have master's degrees teach center in high school? I don't know about elementary school, maybe, But anyway, I couldn't go down there and teach school This. I had a master's degree, so I had to get stay on longer in the States and get my masters.

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But I taught four years in Arlington County in the junior high school with my bachelors, and then I went worked after school, and summer is in part, you know, whenever I could and worked on my master's so you could go back to teach? Yeah, I wanted to go back.

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Uh, it's magical magic, but anyway, I actually I went back, and I taught in Corona Junior High School, but I went over and taught in Balboa High School in the same room I taught art in the same room that I got kicked out of art in.

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Oh, my goodness. I was kind of a pain. What did you do to get kicked out of art Class E? You know, it's hard to remember. I think I made some boy blew my throwing paint on them or something. E don't know. I kicked the door in or it was just, you know, something annoying, you know?

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Did you have to kick anybody out of our class, huh? Have you ever had to kick anybody out of our class? Well, I had 11 problem with one guy who was the best one of the best of all the artists. I I don't want no one.

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I think I'm not mentioning names, You know everything. But I think it probably had something to do with drugs or something. You know, his brain wasn't functioning right. And I just thought the kid was great, but he just got out of control, E. I mean, you know, when you can't even talk to anybody without him jumping up and down like a given or something like that, You know, you got problems there.

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One kid. I allowed them to all come into class and watch this one, guys, um I mean, all the kids that could have study hall or something could come to my classroom this one day and watch the surfing slides that this one guy took and explain things.

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So on die, We're all sitting in there. Of course. All the surfers got out of school, some out there in there, and I looked down and e walked over, and I said, What's in that glass of beer? I said, you're going to get out of here.

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We're going down and see somebody. I said, that's it, kids. I had to Yeah, you know, he ruined it for everybody. How old was he bringing beer to class? I think he was probably 0, 17. Maybe that is that is very bold. Yeah, well, you know, he was on something too.

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Well, you know, Here's the thing. A lot of kids there were. There were the heads and the boozers heads were on marijuana. The boozers were on beer or whatever, and they did their thing. Okay, Now I see kids that were, you know, you're grown up to have kids that are doing fine.

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And I can't I can only think of one guy that really, you know, messed up his life. But the rest of they got away from it and they did fight over. Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes I think people get a little bit too, You know, it's certain people.

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It'll it'll kill him, you know, their personality or their mental makeup. But most of the kids they got through that period of life and they didn't want that stuff anymore. When you were there in high school, was there a lot of hard partying like that? Oh, yeah.

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I mean, not with may, but I used to go down the club, drink beer, but after school or on Saturdays or something like that. Yeah. Described like an average Saturday night for a high schooler down there. Yeah. Oh, go out and drink some beers. And actually, when I was in high school.

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I don't think I even had a girlfriend. I had a once in a while. I take a girl out, but it didn't seem to be too interested. Me? I was a little nutty on, uh um, and I think a lot of that has to do with the way I am, what I make and what I do and paint.

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You know, I'm not. Probably not normal. It's good to be that way, though. Well, maybe maybe I'm bipolar, manic depressive. I've been like that all my life, and I don't think I remember really a happy day until recently when my wife has gotten me Cem, new medication on bond.

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Used Abilify. It's a good hand for ability. But, Bill, if I took the other medications and it made it work better you have seen the commercials for a great Yeah, but you dealt with that all throughout high school. Oh, yeah. I'm not hearing a fruitcake, but I'm not saying I mean, I still did all the things I wanna dio Andi.

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I still was always trying to chase the girl here and there, but I just was out of luck, you know, And a lot of was I didn't conform. I think girls at that age, like more conforming people, you know, more steady in their lives. You know, I think of a woman's been divorced three or four times.

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Maybe they're not so picky, you know. But when when I was young, I would do crazy things, you know, Like, what? Do you have stories? Well, even when I was teaching school out there, I I I still like doing crazy. I wrote a book called A Clear Blue Line and It's Pretty dirty, but it's the way we were, Uh, when we were in our, like our 30 mhm and ast faras girl as faras diving.

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We did a lot of diving free diving where you go down and you don't you just use a snorkel and you know your fish wins or you win, you know, But we shoot big fish and in water you couldn't see the bottom. This isn't gonna go into the bank and gallery record everything.

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I mean, I can I can have it edited out if you like, but it's not. No, it doesn't matter. I know it's a bit unrelated, but it's it's not if you don't want it. Well, it's just I don't like it. Sounds like I'm tooting my horn.

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No, I'm interested in it. I do. I do a lot of reading, so I mean, it's well, yeah. Uh, let me give you an idea of what? How? Just how crazy we were about it. Uh, I had the Hong Kong flu. It was bad flu that went around back then And I cough so hard that I got a hernia.

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It popped out. So they were gonna have to operate on me. But they said, I don't want you going to work. I said, I have to go to work. I teach school, and I can't just say I'm not going to work for a week, you know?

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So he said, Well, keep your legs up on a chair, you know, and don't do anything. So that weekend, the water was called perfect for fish. I am not. I just put a wet suit on wetsuits tight, you know? And I put that on. It was cold anyway, so and that held the hernia.

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And so I went diving a bunch of guys on. We went out Bonanno Toki Islands It's about 27 miles from Panama, and I shot a way used to call them Jew fish, but they call them Goliath Grouper. Now you have to be politically polite, you know?

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Anyway, um, I shot him and he took off and went down. And in this place where I Wasit was 100 ft deep and the lion got tangled around me and I went down with him 100 ft. So I got entangled When I hit the bottom and I started up and I got up about 50 ft.

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I had a breathe and I said, I remember. You know, I'm not sort of excitable person, all that. But when something happens, I calm down. I just that part of my life, you know, shuts down. I said you got to get air. One drop of water.

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You're dead. I said, where am I gonna find here? Where am I gonna find there? Probably. I was probably When Where am I gonna find there? You know, and I said my mask. So I lean my head back and the water ran down. Whatever water was in the mask.

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And I just think I suck through my nose as hard as I could flatten that mask up against my face. Well, that s wise. The urge to breathe It didn't give me a lung full of air, but it gave me enough so that I could go on and I went on and I got about 25 ft more and needed there again.

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And, uh, the mask had, uh, you know, uh, decompressed a little bit. And so I sniffed again and I came up just taking it easy on Everybody was laughing and nervous laughter. They they said there was dividing my gear up. They're gonna you know, a guy.

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Get this, I get. But I was down over five minutes. E didn't realize how long it was down because what's the record for? Oh, I don't know. Go diving, E. Don't they go diving? Some people could die for 20 minutes. I don't know, but she and I was breathing trying to breathe through my mass too.

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So I was first. I had to untangle myself. First I was down and then I saw the fish. He shot him. He pulled me down. Then I had 100 ft to get back up. So all of that. This was going on down there. Did you write about that in your book?

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Did you? Yeah. I wrote that my book. And, uh, in fact, the best diver down there. Jerry Coffee. He's dead now, But he was great. He said, you know, I never thought of that. And he's been in situations even worse than that tangled up with sharks and everything else, you know?

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But we usedto we used to brag about sharks and all that. You know, it was a big brag, old thing, but there were plenty, and we did some stupid things, you know, lost it. See, you know, breaking down. Oh, God, some stories. So funny. But they're bad.

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All right, well, maybe we'll keep the bad ones after recorder through that bad, but let's see. Just, I guess, bring it back to the zone. Um, but that's what I was telling you there is Wanna give you an idea? One of the adventures that we've done, Andi other guys did.

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Justus. Muchas may. And you would laugh. You would try thio toe laugh at it all, you know. But everybody was scared when they did something like that. And That was a way I was. I was four after the military. I volunteered for draft when I was in 1956 when I graduated from high school and it wouldn't take me because I have asthma and a couple other things.

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So I was four at. So that's when I went to college and later on in my life I am after I was teaching a while and I Finally when I I quit teaching, I just started working on painting. I had four kids. By that I mean, I didn't have my wife's at him.

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I had two wives. So, um, not the same time, but the, um, talking about, oh, the army. So I said, You know, all my life I've seen the military all my life, seen him go by in trucks and a lot of a lot of my friends.

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Most of my friends were drafted. Some of them went to war. Someone didn't come back, you know. So it was It was something I think that I missed that I was supposed to do and I down in the canal zone. People are very patriotic, were very I said I 000 your own my country.

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So I went to General Warner, and I told him that I wanted to do a SYRIZA paintings on the military, on the Army, in the jungle or wherever. And he says, How long would it take you to get your gear together? I said, Well, about gotta drive home and get it.

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I guess about 45 minutes, he says, I'll have a helicopter waiting for you when you get here. So I did 20 paintings. Big Oil's, uh, in fact, they just started show in Philadelphia not long ago, a couple months ago, and they had two of my paintings in of military.

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They were in the Pentagon for a while on, and, uh, they put one of mine on a banner, even one of your brothers. So I did. I put everything I had into those I went with the grunts, not jungle. I had fluid, every kind of helicopter.

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Waas I just did everything they did, you know? And it was very enlightening to me, And I made me really, really just love the military. And you could thank God we have the men we dio. Jeez, you know, I gotta put a sign on the back of my truck.

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I'm gonna do it, too, because of because of rednecks, country boys, cowboys hillbillies, uh, and mountain boys and on tough city kids. America is safe. And that's that's true. A lot of those guys who were young, young and they were had no job or a Maybe they didn't do well in school.

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Or maybe they didn't give a damn. And they went in the military here. But they were. They were a team and a It's something about Americans. It's just, you know, it's wonderful way. Have a wonderful country. We have, Ah, great military. Do any experiences with them in particular?

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When you were with them doing the painting? Stand out. Any stories you'd like to share from? Well, something happened. Yeah, I just You know, any memory you might have doing that with them. Well, I saw two guys or three guys. One guy fell down the hill and he took another one with him.

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It was like a movie platoon just like it. He took another one with him and another one and another one. They all rolled down. The hell you know, One guy broke his leg. They had to evacuate him. So more eyes coming flying a helicopter. And, uh, it started raining inside the helicopter through the radios and all that way got back to base on.

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And there were There were probably more than I can remember, You know? I mean, nothing ever runs on time, Onda. I just I just don't know how they night fight. I don't know how they fighting that complete darkness. One time I was out with a machine gun crew.

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This is all practice now, E. I wasn't in a war. Uh huh. They had set up the machine gun and you sleep there. You just sleep in the jungle and guy says, Look at all these leaves falling around us, E. Look, they're not leaves their vampire bats.

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What they do is they flutter down and they land, and then they crawl over to you. Then they find a bare spot of skin or something. Like your your ankle or something like that. They'll nick it and then they lapped the blood, and then they could give you Rabies, so at least one every time they had a maneuver.

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At least one guy got hit by a back eso, but that's another one way moved. Mm. How long did he do that? I did that for about four or five. Then they sent me down to Just caused when they had that military invasion. There I went.

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They sent me a month late later, but there was still a little bit of stuff going on much. And so I did a lot of paintings on that, too. So I worked about four or five years on it. 45 Thio. They flew me up tea. They flew me up, general generals playing and flew me over.

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I met the chiefs of staff. You know, Colin Powell. All those all those everybody. I actually started the table with the men that run the wars. You know, it was something that he gave me a show. I'd be star struck. Why? I don't Just talking toe.

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The big, famous politicians would be nerve wracking. Oh, so bad. They they were so down the earth they were. Now, I didn't get involved in in politics with them or telling them anything. I just thank them for their, you know, whatever they did for me, but, uh, nothing to get especially.

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Don't you ever get Get nervous about that? You're too pretty. They will be. They will be very glad to have you around. So you just be yourself, you know. Alright s You were actually sent Thio Panama City in the wake of just cost to do some painting within.

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This is where I'm from. Yeah, they gave me a car and I borrowed a gun from a guy. So e had that in my pocket? Uh huh. Protection. Did he about to use it? No, no, no. But I'm glad I had it. Yeah, I slept with it right by my my night stand.

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What was the city like after that? When you were it was like I didn't stop for any lights on the police force, which see, I knew Noriega. He bought a lot of my paintings. You knew Noriega personally? Yeah, it was. In fact, his cords tried to have me shot.

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Why was that? Well, my brother was in army intelligence. He was a civilian and Army intelligence. And Noriega knew that. But Noriega like my paintings. So he bought a lot of my paintings. He bought around 10. He gave him, gave one to the president, uh, Reagan he gave you.

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In fact, if you want to verify this, call the Reagan library and ask them if they have a painting, thereby al spray. That was presented by President Day. Esprit area. Way worked for Noriega, I guess. Uh, but just say you have a painting every buyouts break from Panama.

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You ought to do it. Yeah, and they'll tell you, Google, you I'll google you. You google me, I'll Google you. Yeah, well, I'll give you my email, OK? Okay, because I'd like to see them. Didn't Or you could contact you directly to buy your paintings. Yeah.

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In fact, one time. Let me let me see if I got anything here. Yeah, my last one. Good. That's See, that's my card. That's one of my paintings of the canal. But, you know, I hate that I'm talking about myself. I understand. But this I mean, we're this aural history.

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It's really about I I understand that you feel uncomfortable doing that, but we're interested in hearing your story. So I mean, this is really interesting. The bottom line is the website, but up there, you see spray art at a O l dot com. That's my email.

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Okay. All right. If you're right, put your what's your name? Candace. Candace. Candace The interviewer or Canal zone interview something. So I know who it is because you get all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I do too. Definitely junk mail and stuff like that. But thank you so much.

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This is This looks really neat. I like the colors. Everything I like. The colors could hang that up. You like colors. I like the colors in the painting. It's if you it's kind of turn up. Uh huh. I don't mind Jimmy Ryan heart, and since then, E knew him in school and I used to have couple of when I quit teaching somebody's students of mine way were good friends and they go to my foundry always had a foundry have been cast in bronze for 40 years.

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So we would go and I were poor bronzes and have a good time. Well, he was helping me one day, and I got a crane now because I can't let that stuff anymore like that. And the crane started Well, you have a shank, it's the ring.

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And on one end, it's just a rod. On the other end is a rod with two handles. So you put the pot in it and then they have to a hangar. It comes down and grabs it on. That lifts it up, see? And then you take it over with the crane and you report Well, what happened is there was a lot of way had to skim the top, a lot of metal and all that.

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And when the shank came up with the crane, here was to the pot in the middle. There was a little piece of slag that got caught between the ring and the pot, and it tipped the pot over. And it was £90 of 2000 degree medal on the floor.

00:34:10.060 - 00:34:30.930

You went that way and I went this way. But you know, there are all kinds of things happened like that. How do you even remove that? How would you remove it once it's setting drive? You know what I did? It chills coal on We cut it up on the band, saw the pieces on my melted them again and report it.

00:34:30.930 - 00:34:54.550

I got It's like hot lava. What you see in the method I was using is a plaster, plaster and sand method. If you don't once you burn out, the wax stuck was in it. If you don't do that, if you do that, you have the port within a day or deteriorates that be terrifying.

00:34:54.560 - 00:35:15.120

I went all over the world, just a pound. I went toe. I went to Florida. I went toe thio Panama. Uh, any place I could find anybody doing anything in Panama. I went to Italy with my wife, you know, and toe learn how to do foundry.

00:35:15.140 - 00:35:37.630

So we went all over the place, and then that's what I wanted to do. And do you mentioned you don't you don't do a lot of selling. It's just really what my wife does. E. I mean, she and my daughter, she's here. She's selling a daughter by my first wife, but I never thought I'd ever end up with a couple of wives.

00:35:39.040 - 00:35:58.390

But, you know, strange life. Did you meet both of them in the zone? You know, I met my first wife in the United States. Very good woman. A very wonderful person. Things didn't work out. Movie had three Children, two boys and a girl when the girls were selling.

00:35:58.610 - 00:36:34.950

Now with her daughter on her husband and then I my second wife, we had a little girl who's gonna be 30 next year, but they're all pretty brilliant. And they they've done well for themselves. Except for my son, Michael who I worry about him because I want him to be ableto you know, he's doing what he wants to do, though he's got the education I just his father I worry about.

00:36:35.630 - 00:36:52.400

That's just what you're gonna dio can't escape it. Don't your folks worry about you? I hope they don't. But I'm sure they dio Are you the only one? Or you have a younger brother. Younger brother. You gotta worry about how old I worry about him. 20 to 22 all.

00:36:52.400 - 00:37:15.800

They're worried about you. Yeah. I hope they don't worry too much. You can't help it. Can't help it. Just especially the mother. Are you good friends with your mom? Yeah. Hmm. Well, um, so I mean, your experiences as an artist sound like they. I mean, you've had a lot of really interesting opportunities to interact.

00:37:15.810 - 00:37:32.990

I mean, Noriega buying your paintings. That's crazy. You told me When I went to see him, I was in a dentist chair on. And then it's got a call. Panama and hey, Sprague. I don't know what you did, but the big man wants to see you.

00:37:33.000 - 00:37:52.450

I said, What do you mean? He said Noriega wants to see you. You better get going. So he packed his stuff up, and I got out of there and went home and changed into a wire. E got pictures. All this E But they're not here. E could send them over the the Internet.

00:37:52.460 - 00:38:29.020

That'd be great to see. But anyway, I went upstairs to his commandant CEO in Amador on, uh, he wasn't very tall guy. I was a lot taller. I lost four inches with my spine. But, hey, I knew that he wouldn't speak English. He could speak English, but he okay spoke Spanish as a matter of pride, he would only speak Spanish.

00:38:29.820 - 00:38:58.800

So I said I am I gonna do this because my Spanish is terrible, you know, on. And so I I said in Iraq, uh, Gusteau. Then I started fumbling around with my Spanish. She says, Sprague, we'll speak English. Uh, I know my Spanish was bad. So he told me.

00:38:58.800 - 00:39:19.180

He said, I I've older. He says, I want you to know that He says You should be very proud That Panama lecture work this much, he said. But Panama's very proud toe have your work to do You ever paint anything just for him? Well, hey, just like my paintings.

00:39:19.190 - 00:39:40.440

Bougherra's He really was a patron of mine. In a way, I didn't ask him to buy him or you couldn't. I mean, he was a dictator, you know, I never had any bad dealings with them or any kind of dealings with them. Just met him there, face to face at one time.

00:39:41.020 - 00:40:05.440

Then he, uh hey said that he gave paintings toe, meet her on in France. President of Mexico, President of Spain. He just went on and on and all these people that he gave, he says, But the one the one I was so proud to give a painting to was Anthony Quinn.

00:40:05.810 - 00:40:26.150

Have you ever heard of him? He was an actor. He got the Academy Award. All that He Have you ever seen the movie Zorba the Greek? Well, he was in that. Hey, uh, you know old actor like old me. But what happened is I had a show in November.

00:40:26.710 - 00:41:06.350

Uh huh. Just a month before the just cause. And a friend of mine who was a bodyguard of Noriega's. He was, ah, bodyguard to the, um, ambassador to Japan, Albert Cowboy, who I went to Bible high school with who should be in our class. But he's been very sick, but anyway, marry Oh, it's a great big black guy you couldn't help but like this guy, he was magnetic.

00:41:06.510 - 00:41:31.320

He was four. Peppy was he was just a great drive. A car and just Oh, God, I don't know how he got out of some of those things just on day. One night we were we were coming back from the airport and he gave me the pictures that they took of Noriega and May at the airport.

00:41:31.320 - 00:41:51.810

He met me, drove me back to my house, but I had my kids with me to not my little one, but three other ones and my wife's cousin, all the kids, they come back, and in the summer I take them all out fishing. I had a big boat that I built, and I put him on the boat.

00:41:51.820 - 00:42:13.530

We go. But there was an outbreak halfway back from the airport and the returning cars over and burning them and throwing rocks. And they were shooting. And, you know, everything was going all that nice stuff to make you feel calm. Well, we finally get up and we turn up this road.

00:42:13.540 - 00:42:32.810

He's driving. He's trying to God, he's not gonna burn my car on. He pulls up into this road and it's blocked off with the burning car and guys coming at us with torches and we're blocked off from behind. So this guy comes up, walks up to the car.

00:42:33.300 - 00:42:56.780

No wonder toe Molly aunties. And he puts his head in the car and marry Oh reaches behind and gets his. This is nickel plated or stainless steel 3 57 Magnum and goes bow, just like in the movies. He cracks his head so hard that could sound like a coconut guy went blue down.

00:42:57.170 - 00:43:11.310

Then you got out with the gun and it was dark and I heard a couple of shots. I don't know if you shot anybody. What but they tortures, went up in the air and he got back in the car and we drove all We took us an hour to get out of that.

00:43:12.000 - 00:43:39.200

And anyway, he was faithful. Thio the regime. No. You know Well, when I went down there in 89 for a show, November 89 C in December 89 is when they hit Noriega. Um, I went down there, uh, after the show, he came up to me and he says, Hey, I'll I go anywhere with the guy, you know?

00:43:39.210 - 00:43:59.120

He says they are. Come on, let's take a ride. So Okay, so we go for riding. He says, Al, they're going to kill you, man. I said what he says, Yeah, Noriega wants you dead. Actually, it wasn't Noriega. It was one of his underlings who didn't like me.

00:43:59.580 - 00:44:21.240

And he thought I was I was a spy because my brother was an intelligence. I never told my brother a thing. I got all my information from the maid. I never said I knew that my phone was bugged. I only said good things. You know, I shut my mouth.

00:44:21.250 - 00:44:40.010

I know how to do that. So he says, Yeah, he says, uh, but he used Noriega used the name, you know, I said, I said, Well, he says finally, Later on, he admitted I was trying to make you say something against Noriega so I'd have something up.

00:44:40.690 - 00:44:59.230

Anyway, he says, Well, I'm gonna eso he starts driving a car and I said, Oh, come on, marry a quick joke with me So he gasses the car. We're going down a little road, almost a single. It was double, but you have to kind of go off in the grass and let the other guy by.

00:44:59.790 - 00:45:18.430

People were jumping off the side of the road and there he was, going so fast. Finally, I said, Jesus way must be doing 90 miles an hour tomorrow. God, man, don't kill me. You know you're going to kill me and he goes, Oh, pulls out that gun cocks.

00:45:18.430 - 00:45:35.720

It puts it up to my head. I'll kill you right now. I'll tell you, my the It's like pinpricks all over my brain and body. You know, you're looking death right in a gun. I don't know what he was gonna do, he says, I'll tell you, you better listen to me, he says.

00:45:35.720 - 00:45:52.940

I'm gonna take you back to where you are in the zone. You stay there and you get the hell out of Panama. You can't go out by the airport. You go out by the airport, they're gonna get you. He says the only way you go get your general friend or whoever you can to get you out.

00:45:52.940 - 00:46:11.150

Military. He says, I swear out they're going to get you and they're gonna put you in jail with, um, use the guy that was already in jail or they're going to kill you one of the other. They think you're a spy. So, man, I said okay.

00:46:11.160 - 00:46:33.420

I promise. You know, So he drove me home, and, uh, my brother helped me get a on. I got General General Max Thurman. He got me on the plane. I'm not. It was funny was when I got to the airport at Howard Air Force Base. When we had that in Panama, I I was standing.

00:46:33.430 - 00:46:53.410

I went up in have beard, you know, should be closed. And this little Air Force guy, you know, you know now I do that, but he goes. He says to me, What's your name? What do you want? I said Well, I'm on the plane on the manifest.

00:46:55.480 - 00:47:15.610

This is what's your name? Sprague. I'll spray. Oh, yeah. No. Sprague on the manifest. I said, Well, you you gotta have a spring on there. They told me I was on the manifesto. Fly out on this plane. No spray, I said, Well, let me have the phone near, please.

00:47:15.610 - 00:47:34.380

I want to call a general. I had his number two. He says only Sprague we have on How common is Sprague? He says the only spray we have here is a Captain Sprague. He said that's May. I'm Captain Sprang. I didn't know they put me down as a captain, you know.

00:47:34.390 - 00:47:56.300

But I said went along. I'm captain spraying. You know, I'm Captain America. What? E said I'm captain Spring. He says, boy, they have all kinds of spooks run around here now. Anyway, I got out. Was it hard to transition? Moved to the States after I miss Panama.

00:47:56.300 - 00:48:14.020

Little I miss it a little, but I liked living where I am. I get to make all those things. I cast bronze. I meet all kinds of people. I'm getting near the end, you know, I know that on. I mean, maybe I got 10 years. Who knows if I'm lucky?

00:48:14.020 - 00:48:37.560

Maybe, but, uh, I'll go a long as, you know, We all know we're gonna go along. As the big guy tells us. You know anything we're zipping off into another realm. Another new adventure. It is. It is definitely how pompous of Manto feel that this is it that they're the brightest of everything.

00:48:37.570 - 00:49:05.640

And then there'll be no more. Not very smart. Well, I mean, that was an incredible story. I'm just trying to get the name. Street. Was Mario the bodyguard to the he was He was the bodyguard to Albert Calvo, who was the, uh, um the, um, ambassador to Japan.

00:49:05.650 - 00:49:22.330

Okay. Under Noriega. Okay. And Calvo bought a lot of paintings for me. He was a great guy. He was a bridge champion of the world over. I mean, one of the world's best bridge champion. Do you guys ever play a game? Oh, I can't play cards.

00:49:22.340 - 00:49:40.100

I don't have the patience to play five minutes fish. You ever play fish? Yeah, it's pretty. It's about the only thing I could do with cards. Dio don't like games to make things I don't have any patients. I don't think for any of the game. Really?

00:49:40.110 - 00:49:57.560

Don't like waiting my turn. What do you What do you like to do? I read a lot. Um, and I do a lot of running for school, but reading I don't think that writing school, But I think it's great reading in that kind of consumed You like my daughter, Dagny.

00:49:57.760 - 00:50:23.990

Her and I just wrote a book together. Well, I wrote the book back in 1966 from my seventh grade class, and we've got it copies of it here. I'm not here. But I wrote the book, and what I did is I was teaching English, and and, uh, I needed I need I wanted to give the kids something extra.

00:50:24.040 - 00:50:45.890

So I wrote a story, Uh, in my time, my own time that I read, I read to them if they were good, I read them a chapter or not a chapter. But as far as I I've done, you know, on Friday and then I show him whatever illustrations I did.

00:50:46.460 - 00:51:12.810

There are kids. They're adults now. Uh, well, I'm I'm selling the book over at the at the vendors vendors. If you go over there, I'll slip you want. But But, uh, the kids that are now out there in their forties fifties um, you know, there. So anyway, Dagny edited it.

00:51:12.820 - 00:51:55.060

It's my my little girl. She edited the book and she did a beautiful job. She's brilliant, like I'm sure you're like, just like her 11 years of age. She edited some of my filthy store, but, uh, they weren't all that bad. Just bad, that's all. But and I did the illustrations and it got published by a publisher, and I just wanna It was a final in a finalist and is some kind of award or something, so it didn't get the award, but it was the 10 off the 10 books that they chose.

00:51:55.070 - 00:52:20.330

You know, it was kind of nice for first time. How much have you published besides that? Because I know you mentioned that's about it, but I'm working on another another book and excuse My, That's okay. My speed. I always draw wherever I go or I get ideas.

00:52:20.340 - 00:52:46.930

E have books like, you know, I right put down stuff for casting bronze, you know, and making different things. Machines that I need. I'm We've got a fishing lord business going in Panama. We're making fishing lords from the Lords that I invent. And are they produced and sold in Panama?

00:52:46.940 - 00:53:09.910

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, there they they Yeah, they are. But we're going to get him in the States to, you know, if we can. In fact, I'm taking some to Alaska with my daughter, Cassie. We're gonna go to Alaska and try him out on the sand, it and halibut.

00:53:09.920 - 00:53:32.850

But these boys is buddy of mine, and I Bob Hummer and I'm Willie Deal. And he's Bob Hummer. He's Bob Bob Hunter in this book, anyway, it's about it's called windswept. And these guys get blown out to sea in a sailboat which happens on capsized and everything.

00:53:32.850 - 00:53:51.370

I end up on a log floating out and see a big tree in which we see all the time out there big trees washed down the rivers and they drift around and all the dolphin and becomes the center for life out there. And then, uh, here's a guy pending a whale whale shark and he slips in.

00:53:52.250 - 00:54:13.970

No, no, the two of them end up on the back of the whale shark. And then here they are diving off the log. When it hit a reef on, there's this tiger shark that had followed them. So the tiger shark gets after both of us have been in the water with some big tiger sharks in our life.

00:54:14.440 - 00:54:42.690

Uh, we're still here, but here's here's the tiger shark and then they the shark likes toe, have his nose great scratch on. Then they they get on island. They're feral dogs and everything. And then the sharks and God May on uh then they find a little puppy in a coconut shell.

00:54:42.700 - 00:55:08.980

So so and then he is scratching. He's on his floating log and they just cut away the water. He's scratching the nose of the whale shark, you know, on it's just, you know, Then there's fish and borders and fishing wars. A zai Go on. And then this is this is a you know, a pianist.

00:55:09.340 - 00:55:26.720

If they're going to be a good pianist, they practice every day. Well, everywhere I go, I bring my sketch port. You wanna look through it? Yeah, definitely. So you you guys were actually I made the book, by the way to. I taught myself how to make books.

00:55:26.720 - 00:55:43.410

Bookbinding, bookbinding. Do you ever do that? I haven't. But I There was a high school class that offer that you oughta do it. Yeah. Ought to do it. Really? Because you could take your own writings on Bind them on. You could make some neat stuff. We need todo.

00:55:44.450 - 00:56:02.420

So this free diving and going out. That was kind of a big social kind of cultural thing in Panama, where a lot of people into that. Not a lot of them. Not a lot. I would say a very small percentage of the gringos and Panamanians did it.

00:56:02.430 - 00:56:22.580

Panamanians were someone were excellent. Good divers, you know, they kill everything. Uh, how did how did people really get along with the native peoples? Everybody. My God, they You know, a lot of the Panamanians went toe American school that they could pay the tuition right there.

00:56:22.590 - 00:56:49.370

Close friends and and some some Americans don't even they go to Panama to go into Panama. They don't. They don't have any ties with zone, right? Panama canals on a lot closer. I mean, Americans are you Had you had some Americans granted you had some Americans, only one in the Panama to buy a lottery ticket, you know, and they only had a lousy stuff to say about Panama.

00:56:49.370 - 00:57:12.590

But most of your Americans got along fine with Panamanians. My family, my dad. Some of his best friends were in Panama, you know. Did you have a lot of Panamanian students at the school where you taught? Yeah, way had quite a bit. Quite a few on beer was there were was in her marriage to girls and married Panamanian guy or a guy.

00:57:12.590 - 00:57:34.670

My a American Mary, Panamanian girl. We're married. We're married to each other. Panama in America. What about for Children? Because Children can be cruel. Were Panamanian kids picked on or tease or anything like that? As far as you saw, I'll tell you, the best fighters were Panamanian and gringo a mixture.

00:57:34.730 - 00:58:01.180

Mother Panama and Father Gringo, or vice versa. They had that Spanish temper and American size. They beat on anybody, you know. What about Inter Mixing? Because I know there was a West Indian presence to Oh, that was my first language. I thought that I hear that when I three years old, my mama gave me to the med.

00:58:01.190 - 00:58:18.160

Her name? Lindemann on Denman Take me out over the place and show all her friends this little white boy and I'm blonde hair, you know? And they touch me here and kiss me ps they kiss me ps all over and I come back And my mother Say what?

00:58:18.170 - 00:58:36.790

Until looking at different kiss marks on him? Yes, there. I'm lipstick all over them and see purple and pink and blue. Uh huh. They kiss me up. They were I learned how to talk that. What is? Can you give me the name of that? Well, we call it Beijing.

00:58:36.800 - 00:59:00.780

Yeah, in the canal zone. People call it Beijing, but ah, lot of people call it Creole, and it comes from Beijing. Comes from Barbados. Okay, The most of the most of the workers who dug the canal were Jamaican. If it wasn't for the black man, that canal would not have been dug because they were the ones that could take it.

00:59:00.790 - 00:59:19.430

They took the disease, they took the accidents and there were strong and they needed the money. And then they brought over there. They brought over their families. So are they met? a wife and and they raised a family. The woman I worked for us raised me from the time I was 11.

00:59:20.220 - 00:59:41.650

Her, her husband, Doug on the canal. He was one of the diggers. He was a little older than her, about 20 years old. Yeah, I was doing the math in my head cause I know that completed construction, I think in 1914, right? So But she told I said, Well, Louise, I can see you like you love your Children.

00:59:41.950 - 01:00:11.150

She says, I love all my Children and all these Children to Did the maids live in house? They lived at home in Panama Way just lived on government pay. Yeah, because I know it was government housing. And but no, no, they came from Well, some of them came from, uh, men who worked from the kind of for the canal.

01:00:11.810 - 01:00:39.500

But a lot of came from just from Panama who, like I said, her husband was retired from in the canal. You know, bar, they came from Panama. But when you when you ira me, you must watch out for your wife. Because if you hire them to pretty gone, a friend that hired three women and one day and his wife got rid of everyone.

01:00:39.510 - 01:01:02.790

A you've been fighting hired a really ugly one. Oh, she stayed with her family for 100 years. How did the process work for hiring maids? Did they just come to your house? They comment, okay. And if you needed needed. But I you know, I hated to call a maze, but that that was what That's what they say you need.

01:01:02.790 - 01:01:24.160

I mean, I'd be a good man, you know? I can't do this. I can't cook. My dad and Louise, they were both by the same age. They're both dead now, but But anyway, Louise and my dad would cook every Saturday together. My mom, my mom was selling insurance or encyclopedias.

01:01:24.170 - 01:01:44.730

She put me through college. My mom did. But my dad and Louise cooking all day Saturday, Saturday. That's what they called Saturday. Satchel day on shrimp, his strips. But it was good cooking. Oh, my dad was a good cook, but he thought Louise had a cook.

01:01:44.830 - 01:02:08.910

She put the Jamaica and cooking with back and forth. Were there any, um, you know, dishes favorite by the canal zone. I know. I'm trying to recall the greatest. Nettie, maybe something was greatest favorite was Johnny Marchetti. Johnny Marr. Zetti? That's what it is. Okay. And it was made with Alfredo Alfredo Sauce saw Saw Freddo or something like that.

01:02:08.920 - 01:02:33.020

But yeah, when you have a big party, you know, they'd have Johnny Marchetti on. That was a big deal. Onda Canal Zone parties were great, but they Why did they get a little too crazy? They got crazy, you know, A lot of men and women there, you know, they got kind of wild.

01:02:33.500 - 01:02:56.320

I remember one time I was I don't haven't had a drink for 35 years, but But when I was back in my drinking days, I was young, we're having parties and I was going through a friend's party. And I see the party. And also I think I'm gonna pull up and parking is lawn because I couldn't do our cars all over.

01:02:56.800 - 01:03:12.450

So I pulled up and it's been raining and I pull up a little too fast on the line. I hit my brain and I skidded in. All the houses were up on stilts, you know, I skidded right through the bushes into the party. You know I didn't hit anybody.

01:03:12.450 - 01:03:40.060

Thank God it wasn't even his party. So I stayed met new friends. Oh, my goodness. What zone Eez were. Oh, God, they still are. They they all talk vision, you know? You talk to them, they what? You're doing what you're doing. You know, and and in this book, I the character old man, he was a really character on.

01:03:40.070 - 01:03:58.910

I used to used to take me fishing. Uh, he's a black kid. He was about five years older than me. And we go out and get see worms and all kinds of adventures. Oh, I was only 10 or 11 years old and you're allowed to just go out because I know it was really safe.

01:03:58.920 - 01:04:17.660

Yeah, it was pretty safe. What wasn't safe is what we did not not worrying about. You don't worry about, you know, some molester or something like that. Anyway, we were such such devious kids that I pity any molester tried anything. Honest way. Find some way together.

01:04:17.670 - 01:04:39.600

It's a e. Does anything stand out in particular? Well, well, we were throwing firecrackers at people one time in the car, and then there's cherry bombs. They got him with a week in the middle of a M eighties. What they call the military using way through.

01:04:39.990 - 01:04:57.180

I threw, went out and it was Car was packed. It all about eight guys in the car, you know, and it hit the it hit the top of the window on the bounce back in the car. Everybody was trying to find it. Screams Oh, my goodness.

01:04:57.190 - 01:05:24.210

But at one time we went down to the tuna. Boats used to come in and they dock along the dock. They refuel and resupply. We used to go down there, and this was the old tuna fishermen. They used the They use live sardines and or answer Betty's and Jovita, and they had bait wells on the tuna boat and there were about 100 ft long.

01:05:24.210 - 01:05:41.450

Maybe the tuna boat, and they had racks that they put over the side of the men is standing Iraq's and the guy up in the bait tank. He would throw sardines out a net full here in a Netflix on the tuna would come in, and then these guys in Iraq's had these polls with hook on him.

01:05:41.460 - 01:06:05.500

You know, Marty pulling these big tuna. And sometimes they had one pole to pole. Three poll for Paul Tuna. 44 guys pulling up tuna this big, you see? Oh, if you want to write down what it looked like you wanna wanna right down tribute to Tuna that you'll get that on the email?

01:06:05.880 - 01:06:22.140

I'm not even gonna computer. I don't know if you can watch it for free or what? A tribute to tuna that will show you just what we knew those guys to say. We come into Baba Harbor to resupply. Well, we go down there and use their lives.

01:06:22.140 - 01:06:40.470

Sardines for bait. Right on the boat. We get big snapper and mackerel and we caught a big fish. Oh, man, I remember trying to sell them one night we got shot at and everything, but anyway, ways somebody shot at you for trying to sell tuna way had no No way.

01:06:40.470 - 01:06:59.600

We're race e. Don't know if I should tell you this. We caught a bunch of corvina buddy of mine, and I and we went downtown to sell corvina. And there everybody was closed. So Corbyn is the prize fish down there. So on the way back He was speeding.

01:06:59.740 - 01:07:24.720

We didn't know. We're talking about where we're going to sell the fish. And we passed this checkpoint ruled by a cop blows his whistle and we just goosed it. You know he didn't move. Bao Bao took two shots at us and, uh, 11 went in the trunk of the car on the other one who across the top creasing top.

01:07:25.080 - 01:07:47.800

But we we stayed in a card at night way slept in the car and waiting for the y M c A open up the next day and, uh, the man there, Harry Chan, he was a He ran the restaurant. Probably the nicest man in the world.

01:07:47.810 - 01:08:14.210

His daughter comes, comes here Bev Bev Williams. She got away, Her family comes But higher was Chinese on Hey was just wonderful. He say you come into selfish or something, you know? And he said You boys look hungry going back and get something to eat. He was just a good man and he said, Well, I give you 17 off some pounds, you know, for your corvina, you know.

01:08:14.570 - 01:08:34.300

So anyway, we were the next day and then sold the Corbyn it to him that they were still good. Panama Nice. Everything. But we had this bullet went through the trunk, you know? So he says to his wonder, Hey, what you what? You catch those fish with find bulletin?

01:08:34.310 - 01:08:58.640

E think fish saved our lives? Yeah. Oh, my God. And, uh then one time we went down there and they were thio tuna boats and they said, We're gonna leave, But we have a bunch of undersized tuna. We have to get rid off. Do you guys want him?

01:08:59.220 - 01:09:20.330

Do we want him? Well, it's not like we took advantage of the the West Indians living in la Boca because we gave them a fair deal on these. Tune over Fresh. We told them for two tuna for a quarter and a tuna were this big. You know, there was enough there to feed two families in one tuna, you know?

01:09:20.340 - 01:09:37.880

So we saw him two for a quarter and we just put him on the trunk, filled the trunk up, and it was a borrowed car. I wrote this down anyway. Anyway, we're goingto lavaka, and we opened the trunk and started selling fish. We made so much money so fast that man.

01:09:37.880 - 01:10:05.000

We went back to the tuna boat, you know? So this time the guys this man, we're we're pulling out. This is it. We're pulling out, you know? But you got about with 20 minutes and we're gone. So they took the tuna and they filled up the trunk and we put him in the car in the car, went our car on, roll up the windows, and we're stuffing them through wind up in court.

01:10:05.010 - 01:10:33.690

And one guy was in the black Hey, suffocating from freezing to death eso every time we turned a corner, all those tuning slide up and bury him screaming, you know? So we went and we open up the car way, and we sold all them way got out of there, and we pulled up next to a light thio, get this car back, you know?

01:10:34.060 - 01:10:48.790

And we pulled up next to the light and this car pulled up next to us. A guy got a sports car with a girl with them, you know? And he looks over us. We look over him, way had fish guts all over us. Everything in slime.

01:10:49.460 - 01:11:13.570

What? What do you what with you guys you know, fish. Tuna on the girl goes No, no, you have people out there in the light. A So we got the car home. And this poor guy, he the guy, the guy that he borrowed a car from was there waiting for him.

01:11:13.580 - 01:11:30.580

He was a soldier, you know? And he liked the sister something. They had some kind of a fighters. I don't know, but he saw his car. And, man, what a chase that was. You left the car and run and Bob ran through the swamp from up two days.

01:11:30.590 - 01:11:53.190

E wanted to kill him. How old are you? Was 16 like that? Somebody brought my car back full of fish guts. I don't know how I'd react. We wouldn't have done that to a girl Did A lot of kids have their own cars? I destroyed three of my dad's, you know, it was the same.

01:11:53.200 - 01:12:13.550

Okay. Can I have the car? You know, same thing on, uh, I mostly walked, but in high school, I didn't have a car in high school on, uh, only when I got out. Was everything compact enough? So it was easy to get around on foot or with a bike or so used to walk to school every day.

01:12:13.550 - 01:12:35.840

And it was about a mile. Yeah, it wasn't for, you know, And even in when I was little, you know, they just where is the school? And it was about probably a half mile down the road. It was a straight walk to school. You'd walk to school and you run back with all the bullies out after school.

01:12:35.850 - 01:13:00.380

It sounds like it was a really amazing life, a great experience. It's always something happening. Used to crawl underneath the piers. Fuck way. Used to crawl underneath the piers, slimy barnacles. You know, the tides were would goto 18 ft. We climb under there and we get a spirit.

01:13:00.380 - 01:13:19.290

And remember this buddy of mine and I the same guy way had more fun together on my way had one speargun between us. We both owned it. And I take a shot at a fishing, get a fish We put him up on, cited a Pierre, you know, underneath the period slope.

01:13:19.290 - 01:13:35.570

So put him up there, and then you go back and he got a shot, you know? And I got a shot. Well, he's looking around here and we're way out underneath the pier almost to the front of the pier because you know how to climb around all the pilings and all.

01:13:35.950 - 01:13:57.920

And he no human being would wanna be underneath their e. Mean it had rats under there, all kinds of lizards. Big lizards, like black lizards. Anyway, he's looking, and I looked like, Wow, you see this great big grouper? You If we just shot that we have lost a gun anyway.

01:13:57.930 - 01:14:27.870

But that doesn't go on in your head as a 16. E was so excited I couldn't talk, E I just grabbed the gun. Hey, grabbed him. We're fighting over a loaded gun on thing goes off. It ricochets off. Just going off all over under the were like killed with I think, but grouper went down.

01:14:28.240 - 01:14:48.730

That was not today, but way did stuff we used to walk on the piling the the camels. They were this thick and moss and you had a walk a certain way. I'm good at walking across slippery floors. If I know they're slippery, you gotta learn how toe walk.

01:14:48.740 - 01:15:08.650

Everything is very deliberate, you know? And, uh, I've caught caught fish on my fishing rod and skidding all the way down there with the fish pulling on. Hummer was always a big guy. Grabbed me by the scruff of the neck. Oh, wait. You see that, Za?

01:15:08.650 - 01:15:25.470

Another thing is that I went for the adventure part, you know? And like I said, it was a little cookie, so I didn't have the romance in my younger years. You know, I didn't. You're a lot of these guys went steady with a girl and all that night that cost a lot of money.

01:15:25.470 - 01:15:40.380

It takes a lot of time, a lot of effort into that kind of stuff. Yeah, well, you know, I would have loved to have had a girlfriend, I think. What? You have to spend time, you know, you can't go fishing all the time. She will say no to that.

01:15:40.380 - 01:16:04.990

No, you're spending time with fish. Used to be so much used to be so much fish, you could kick him up on the beach. Sometimes it was amazing. So I mean, you've had some pretty incredible experiences there, and let's have emotional attachments to it. So when you hear the news that it's being turned back over to the Panamanians.

01:16:04.990 - 01:16:20.620

How did you take that first? I don't care for Carter. I didn't care for him for anything he did. But there is one of my paintings in this library, though. Kind of maintenance. Bought it from me and gave it the Carter s O. They didn't think.

01:16:20.630 - 01:16:41.810

Think enough for me to do that. My painting anyway. But I'm glad that they have. I think they're doing a very good job there. They're doing fine. And I think they'll continue to do so. They have glitches now and then, but so do we. Yeah. No, they'll do.

01:16:41.810 - 01:17:01.550

Fine. But old Big brother Yusa is keeping an eye on it to if anybody tries to mess around with it were in there. And that's the deal, because it z vital to the world. Because if you can't get through the canal, you got to go around the horn.

01:17:02.030 - 01:17:24.970

And if you ever read any books on the horn that is horrible, difficult to navigate. 100 ft seas, one after the other. They call them gray beards. They lost many lives there and then or you go through the Suez Canal. But the su, as you see Oh, they're always having trouble over there.

01:17:24.970 - 01:17:44.140

So that's not a stable place either. So you better keep the Panama cannot open important and asset. And, um, when you and when you relocated, you mentioned you missed it, but it wasn't, You know, I miss it. But you know what I did? I said to myself, Look, there's nothing you could do about it.

01:17:44.900 - 01:18:04.700

Miss it, But look for the good things here. Yeah. Did you continue to teach up here? No, I I quit when I was down there, too. Yeah. Mhm. Well, I'm trying to think of what we haven't covered yet. It's been a Yeah, it's been a great interview.

01:18:04.700 - 01:18:21.250

Thank you so much for your time. Do you have anything you'd like to add? Any closing remarks? Well, my brother say man is man and woman is woman. If then does that, then what them is. I like that I've got to make it down to Panama sometime.